Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[ORDO NOVUS]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

It does sound like Zen Lee is changing his tune as Inmotion is improving the firmware. 

I still believe Inmotion will get it right, and perform well.

I am keeping an eye on the V14, as well as two yet unannounced performance wheels from Inmotion.

it does sound like Zen Lee is changing his tune every time he receives moneyz or stuff from another euc manufacturer 

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, ORDO NOVUS said:

it does sound like Zen Lee is changing his tune every time he receives moneyz or stuff from another euc manufacturer 

Did you even watch his last video between the V14 vs Lynx climbing hills?

He stated in his video that the V14 belongs to Psycho. He even asks Psycho in front of the camera for permission to ride the V14.

The Lynx with the Samsung 50S cells is his.

Moreover, he also said that if viewers want him to test other wheels, they would have to send him the wheels since he doesn't get wheels.

But also at the same time, he isn't bound by manufacturers since he is not getting stuff from them.

Can you show us proof where he has receive monetary gains or gifts from the manufacturers or distributors?

[UniVehje]

9 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Can you show us proof

Don’t feed the trolls.

[ORDO NOVUS]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Did you even watch his last video between the V14 vs Lynx climbing hills?

He stated in his video that the V14 belongs to Psycho. He even asks Psycho in front of the camera for permission to ride the V14.

The Lynx with the Samsung 50S cells is his.

Moreover, he also said that if viewers want him to test other wheels, they would have to send him the wheels since he doesn't get wheels.

But also at the same time, he isn't bound by manufacturers since he is not getting stuff from them.

Can you show us proof where he has receive monetary gains or gifts from the manufacturers or distributors?

watch his previous videos t-shirts of leaperkim etc

[Unventor]

On 2/4/2024 at 9:48 PM, Forwardnbak said:

I am still not sure how I am overpowering the wheel so easy. It was taking some work in the trails but I didn't expect to hit 13000w max power. Darkness bot wont connect to give me a realtime read out to see where I am overpowering. 

It still didn't cut off.

 

 

Now this is why I do not intent to go skatebor stunt riding any EUC.

From an explanation I got from a Kingsong rep here on the forum years back what often was a reason to cutouts wasn't highspeed as most riders knew there were an upper limit to what EUCs back then could do.

The big problem was low to no speed hitting a bump. This caused a huge spike in amps since at low speed cause it to run at low voltage on the motor.

In early days of people posting about jumping here on the forum some discussion about talked about what I would call touch down impact. This means how fast wheel spin up or down in speed compared to you moment. To keep balance this should be as close to each other as possible. You don't want to move forward but motor spinning in reverse in mid air because you lean backwards. This means the motor have to go from reverse into forward speed which will create big spikes of power.

Just because an EUC have listed a peak power of 9k doesn't mean you can treat it however you like. Just as a gearbox of a car dislike going at speed and then shift into opposite direction. 

So the question here is how to control this while in mid air. Since I never do these kind of things I can't help with this. But if you were to look at how people jump EUCs on YT then I thing you mean get an idea of what to do and what not to do. Now practicing thing safely...

I am not skateboarding my EUC. 😉

[GPSchile]

On 2/3/2024 at 10:21 AM, CasperBak said:

Yeah, that is also the conclusion I came to, since that is how it works on my V12. I have let it sit plugged in, until I need to use it again. The disparity in voltage has already decreased.

Perhaps I looked only superficially, but I didn't see any significant imbalances at the cell level; the BMS seems to be doing their magic. Instead, the difference were at the pack level, which is managed generally by the controller. In V11 and the V12 series, packs are equalized not only during fully charging but actively during use by deactivating and activating packs. Inmotion described it as a "collaborative system." In both, I've noticed that inter-pack equalization occurs more quickly when driving steadily for some minutes. It's not necessary to leave it on the charger to equalize the packs.
However, with both models, I've had cases where the delta resulted from voltmeter calibration drift in the controller rather than real differences between the packs. Easy to solve by simply charge fully and recalibrate using the Inmotion technical app (or have them do it remotely). With the introduction of Raptor controller, this is no longer the case, because it detects these issues and if necessary, it recalibrates automatically (unlike in V11 and V12). This occurs when connected to the charger and reaching full charge.
Your findings are interesting to me because, it seems that on V14, both packs of the same side are "unified" by the cables before reaching the controller. I am not sure since I still do not get one to open it. If so, the inter-pack equalization may be different than previous models. It may be like on V11/V12/V13 only between sides (inter-side level), but within packs of the same side (intra-side packs) the equalization has a design that seems to me to rely more on the "purging capability" of BMS rather the controller. If so, fully charging at least periodically, may be required by V14 to equalize same side packs, as to access the full battery capacity of the vehicle. I just brainstorming. 

[Unventor]

Well this is what I know about the V11 (compared to what has been shared about the V14).

On a V11 you can change a battery pack of 2. But the design of BMS and battery pack do not really handle big difference very well or in a secure manner. So to do this safely you should charge with on one battery pack to full. Then disconnect it and connect the other battery pack and charge to full. When you the connect both battery packs they can balance out any minor differences. If the difference in voltage is huge/more than a "few volts" then you risk of frying a pack.

On the V14 there should be a safety mechanism that prevent sparke between battery packs. This and with individual cell monitoring is a very big plus or improvement in my eyes. It is also why I chose to buy a V14 rather a new replacement pack to one of my V11.

Btw this waiting is almost killing me 🤥.

1 or 2 weeks of waiting left hopefully.

[GPSchile]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

Well this is what I know about the V11 (compared to what has been shared about the V14).

On a V11 you can change a battery pack of 2. But the design of BMS and battery pack do not really handle big difference very well or in a secure manner. So to do this safely you should charge with on one battery pack to full. Then disconnect it and connect the other battery pack and charge to full. When you the connect both battery packs they can balance out any minor differences. If the difference in voltage is huge/more than a "few volts" then you risk of frying a pack.

On the V14 there should be a safety mechanism that prevent sparke between battery packs. This and with individual cell monitoring is a very big plus or improvement in my eyes. It is also why I chose to buy a V14 rather a new replacement pack to one of my V11.

Btw this waiting is almost killing me 🤥.

1 or 2 weeks of waiting left hopefully.

My experience is a little different. What happens with V11 (not V11Y) and V12 series is that if you connect the batteries having a significant difference of voltage between them, it triggers a warning and it if is high enough, the firmware can lock the vehicle for safety as a way to force you to contact a dealer or Inmotion to check it remotely before unlocking it. If the delta is too high there is a risk of energy passing from the higher to the lower charged and if it is a lot, that energy can overheat the cables etc. Perhaps I just saying the same as you but with other words    My point is that it does not matter much if the battery is fully charged or not, but more about the delta between the two batteries. With an adapter I just charge the lowest battery up to the same voltage as the higher one and no problems connecting them to the controller as  an alternative to fully charge them both. I do not like to fully charge unless I am going to use it immediately.
With V13 this step is not needed. It can handle even big differences between batteries automatically without having to equalize their voltages prior installation. With V14 I guess a lot of the V13 has been applied to it, but the different battery setup may have induced some differences on how the packs of the same side are equalized.
For my type of riding in mountains, and crossing small cricks, my V11 has been awesome. No complaints even after getting it fully submersed (my fault). Its 14" rim has been a very good balance between agility and capabilities to surpass obstacles. However, the rim of V14 may be more reliable against impacts, jumps, accidents and similar cases where V11's rim is not as sturdy. Also, a 12" rim may be more agile between obstacles at low speed, climbing hills between rocks etc. I am not getting any younger, so I keep wondering how the lower weight of V11 compares with the higher control of V14 but with higher weight. I am decided for the V14-50S but unless my wife keep forcing me to resell it, I would like to keep my loyal V11.

My main issues are my wife (or my budget  ) and clay mud that forms like an adhesive mass with stones and other things easily jamming the motor. The most beautiful days where I live are after the winter rain, but that's when there's the most risk of burning the controller if the vehicle is not immediately tilted sideways if the motor gets stuck. With the torque that EUCs are getting, perhaps a rear piece that "cuts" the mud from the tire when turning could help. 
Anyway, these vehicles keep getting better and specialized for different purposes. I see so many reasons to be positive and enjoy them. 

[Ro.man]

An update on V14 with Michelin City Grip tire.

At first I tried to setup this tire tubeless, but I got the wrong nipple without a fixing bolt (it wasn't sealing the hole good enough and some air was leaking between the nipple and the hole). I had to fall back to the tube. 

When the tire was installed and inflated to 36 psi  it rubbed the fender so badly that I had to remove it completely for the tire to fit. And even without the fender the clearance is almost non-existent. 90/90-12 is clearly bigger than 3.00-12. 

Initial impressions were mixed. At first it felt very unstable. This tire likes to lean much more than a stock knobby. Feels like I'm always on one of the edges. but after some time on the parking lot I got used to this behaviour and started enjoying the ride. The wheel became more playful and nimble. Carving became natural, turns got tighter, figure 8 became more precise. When taken to a bad road with potholes and speed bumps I have noticed the comfort increased quite a bit. The tire swallows small bumps very well, so it feels that suspension got softer even at 36 psi. Later I reduced the pressure to 32 and it became slightly more stable. The wobbles emerge quicker than with the knobby tire but they are also easier to put down. In general the wheel got more precise and more controllable in traffic. Yes, and absolutely silent.  

But when I reached about 40kph I have noticed that V14 is slightly tilted to the right and it pulls to the right, so I have to compensate for that with my stance. My right foot got tired after 10km. At first I attributed that to the wind, but later removed the pads and tried to ride the wheel other side around. It was pulling to the left. So it became clear that the problem is in the tire. I doublechecked, the tire seated properly. There is no bouncing, just consistent pulling to one side. I tried trimming a bit of rubber on one side with a burnout and it kind of got better but is still pulling a bit to the right and my right foot gets sore quicker. Maybe I got a faulty tire, I don't know. I have ordered Pirelli Angel Scooter, so I'm going to compare that with Michelin in a few days.

  

[Cerbera]

55 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

An update on V14 with Michelin City Grip tire.

 

Interesting to read your xp on that tyre. Seems your experience is very similar to my own with the Citygrip Extra; starts off fairly terrifying, then becomes much nicer overall and somewhat preferable to a knobby once you have dealt with it for a while ! Mine is also at 30 PSI, but I find that a much more noticeably 'hard' ride compared to the very very low 10-15 PSI I liked the knobby at, which I guess makes sense ! But if I try and run the City Xtra that low the profile goes all wrong, and it quickly becomes apparent that this is not the right thing to do here !

Edited February 15 by Cerbera

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, Ro.man said:

have noticed that V14 is slightly tilted to the right and it pulls to the right, so I have to compensate for that with my stance. My right foot got tired after 10km

I had very similar experience with my City Grip 2 on S22. It takes a while to get used to it. For me it helped when I lowered pressure to around 2 bar or 29 PSI. 

[Rollin-on-1]

2 hours ago, Ro.man said:

An update on V14 with Michelin City Grip tire.

At first I tried to setup this tire tubeless, but I got the wrong nipple without a fixing bolt (it wasn't sealing the hole good enough and some air was leaking between the nipple and the hole). I had to fall back to the tube. 

When the tire was installed and inflated to 36 psi  it rubbed the fender so badly that I had to remove it completely for the tire to fit. And even without the fender the clearance is almost non-existent. 90/90-12 is clearly bigger than 3.00-12. 

Initial impressions were mixed. At first it felt very unstable. This tire likes to lean much more than a stock knobby. Feels like I'm always on one of the edges. but after some time on the parking lot I got used to this behaviour and started enjoying the ride. The wheel became more playful and nimble. Carving became natural, turns got tighter, figure 8 became more precise. When taken to a bad road with potholes and speed bumps I have noticed the comfort increased quite a bit. The tire swallows small bumps very well, so it feels that suspension got softer even at 36 psi. Later I reduced the pressure to 32 and it became slightly more stable. The wobbles emerge quicker than with the knobby tire but they are also easier to put down. In general the wheel got more precise and more controllable in traffic. Yes, and absolutely silent.  

But when I reached about 40kph I have noticed that V14 is slightly tilted to the right and it pulls to the right, so I have to compensate for that with my stance. My right foot got tired after 10km. At first I attributed that to the wind, but later removed the pads and tried to ride the wheel other side around. It was pulling to the left. So it became clear that the problem is in the tire. I doublechecked, the tire seated properly. There is no bouncing, just consistent pulling to one side. I tried trimming a bit of rubber on one side with a burnout and it kind of got better but is still pulling a bit to the right and my right foot gets sore quicker. Maybe I got a faulty tire, I don't know. I have ordered Pirelli Angel Scooter, so I'm going to compare that with Michelin in a few days.

  

What are the width and height measurements on the City Grip II as mounted on your V14?  

[Ro.man]

18 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

What are the width and height measurements on the City Grip II as mounted on your V14?  

about 90 width x 72 from the rim to the highest part of the tire and it is City Grip I

Edited February 16 by Ro.man

[techyiam]

Has anyone who owned a Patton or an S22/Pro bought a V14?

I looking for owners' perspective on the move from a Patton or an S22/Pro to a V14?

 

Edited February 18 by techyiam

[Sergey Sh.]

AliExpress sells a softer version of the shock absorber with a 500-650 lbs/in spring for the V14 (link), has anyone tried installing it?

[Ro.man]

1 hour ago, Sergey Sh. said:

AliExpress sells a softer version of the shock absorber with a 500-650 lbs/in spring for the V14 (link), has anyone tried installing it?

Since damper looks the same, can the spring be purchased separately?

[Ro.man]

Michelin City Grip vs. Pirelli Angel Scooter: A Side-by-Side Comparison

Angel Scooter is on now and I’m ready to compare it with City Grip that I had before.

I couldn’t imagine that these 2 street tires from well known brands could behave that different!

On paper they are both 90/90-12 tires with road pattern. Pirelli maintains a slightly smaller outer diameter that fits V14 without any rubbing issues. I have yet to test it with a fender; however, I've noticed that, in contrast, the Michelin tire tends to make contact with the wheel arc at higher pressures even without a fender.

Weight-wise, the Angel Scooter (2.7 kg) is slightly lighter than the City Grip (2.9 kg), yet still heavier than the standard knobby tire (2.1 kg). Some would guess that this makes the tire lighter and more nimble, but that cannot be further away from the truth.

The fundamental variance lies in the tires' profiles. Pirelli sports a smooth U-shaped contour, while Michelin features a “pointier” V-shape. This distinction drastically alters riding dynamics, especially on an EUC.

Initially, the Pirelli's neutral handling surprised me; it didn't exhibit the same pull to one side that I experienced with my previous Michelin tire. I attribute this trait to a possible defect in my specific tire rather than a general issue with this model. I’m not claiming that all Michelin City Grip tires pull to one side, I assume most of them don’t.

At lower speeds, both tires display similar agility. However, as the speed surpasses 25-30 km/h, Pirelli desire to maintain a straight path and require significantly more effort to maneuver. Turning on Pirelli feels more laborious, demanding substantial physical input to achieve direction changes. Conversely, the Michelin responds almost seamlessly to directional intentions. You just have to look towards the turn and it follows.

Carving on high speed is also a lot slower on Pirelli tire. Where on Michelin it was as quick as thinking to carve, Pirelli takes time to change direction, it is like steering a truck.

Yet, in windy conditions, Pirelli shines. While Michelin necessitated major body adjustments to combat side winds, Pirelli allowed for easy compensation with minimal shifts, proving superior for sustained high-speed travel on highways.

When it comes to bad roads, looks like Pirelli is a bit more sensitive to them. While on perfectly flat roads it is flawless, some road imperfections can throw the tire to the side or cause a wobble, however the wobbles are usually easy to put down with this tire.

Comfort-wise both tires eat small bumps quite a bit better than the stock knobby tire. However, if we compare these 2 street tires, Michelin takes the crown on comfort. Probably because it has much softer sidewalls and can deform more.

Because of those sidewalls installation ease also differed; the Michelin was easy to mount, whereas fitting the Pirelli required soap, water, and inflating to 120 psi to ensure proper seating.

In Summary, Pirelli Angel Scooter excels in straight, high-speed stability, making it an outstanding choice for long-distance highway adventures. On the other hand, Michelin City Grip offers a lighter, more agile feel, significantly enhancing the fun factor in riding, particularly in high-speed carving and cornering scenarios.

My ideal EUC street tire would embody the middle ground between these two — with a leaning preference towards the characteristics of the Michelin for its enjoyable ride experience.

[UniVehje]

16 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

Initially, the Pirelli's neutral handling surprised me; it didn't exhibit the same pull to one side that I experienced with my previous Michelin tire. I attribute this trait to a possible defect in my specific tire rather than a general issue with this model. I’m not claiming that all Michelin City Grip tires pull to one side, I assume most of them don’t.

I had that same feeling with my 80/90-14 City Grip 2. I also thought it might be defective. But in the end it was just very sensitive and I had to make sure my posture was very symmetrical. Lowering the pressure to slightly below 2 bars helped a lot and that's when I started to enjoy the tire. 

[null]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

I had that same feeling with my 80/90-14 City Grip 2. I also thought it might be defective. But in the end it was just very sensitive and I had to make sure my posture was very symmetrical. Lowering the pressure to slightly below 2 bars helped a lot and that's when I started to enjoy the tire. 

I got this feeling from the H666 as 18x2.5 and had to conclude like @Ro.man that the profile being pointy made it easier to tilt to the sides, as opposite to an obtuse profile that will tramline. It might be an interesting project to 3D scan the tires on the rim so one can really compare the inflated curve.

Edited February 21 by null

[Ro.man]

4 hours ago, UniVehje said:

I had that same feeling with my 80/90-14 City Grip 2. I also thought it might be defective. But in the end it was just very sensitive and I had to make sure my posture was very symmetrical. Lowering the pressure to slightly below 2 bars helped a lot and that's when I started to enjoy the tire. 

In my case it was obvious since when I reversed the wheel backwards it started pulling to the other side.

I tried lowering the pressure down to 23 psi but the asymmetry was still noticeable.

 

2 hours ago, null said:

I got this feeling from the H666 as 18x2.5 and had to conclude like @Ro.man that the profile being pointy made it easier to tilt to the sides, as opposite to an obtuse profile that will tramline. It might be an interesting project to 3D scan the tires on the rim so one can really compare the inflated curve.

That would be cool if you could do that and come up with a chart of tire "pointyness". I would bet that Michelin will be at the pointiest part of that spectrum )

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ccd588d0-b805-4ac2-9fb0-bbe8f1ad0083

Edited February 21 by Ro.man

[null]

1 hour ago, Ro.man said:

In my case it was obvious since when I reversed the wheel backwards it started pulling to the other side.

I tried lowering the pressure down to 23 psi but the asymmetry was still noticeable.

Hm so it was also asymmetrical, I hadn't understood that. If it isn’t the mounting it could have been distorted while shipping, I suppose that kind of thing could bend back after some breaking in (?)..  edit: Apparently can be bad production according to UniVehje.

1 hour ago, Ro.man said:

That would be cool if you could do that and come up with a chart of tire "pointyness". I would bet that Michelin will be at the pointiest part of that spectrum )

Yes that could have been useful, as the handling is very much linked to it, including on motorcycles. It might be a bit difficult to number, especially that it will vary depending of rim width though.

edit: Your use of V and U was speaking, now just to find some square bottom letter.

Edited February 21 by null

[UniVehje]

41 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

In my case it was obvious since when I reversed the wheel backwards it started pulling to the other side.

Sure it can happen. I had one Vee Rubber tire that very clearly wanted lean right. In inspection I could see a manufacturing defect that made it lopsided. I would have thought Michelin had better quality standards. Maybe it doesn’t affect motorcycles that much. 

[Unventor]

22 hours ago, null said:

Yes that could have been useful, as the handling is very much linked to it, including on motorcycles. It might be a bit difficult to number, especially that it will vary depending of rim width though.

edit: Your use of V and U was speaking, now just to find some square bottom letter.

I see this as an U or V or (_) profile in easy terms to type. 

Here you see the new stock tire. I am considering to get a more U shape profile. The stock tire of batch 2 is good in a straight line. But sight maneuvers I miss my K66 tire profile on my V11. This is just perfect.

[Ro.man]

I would say that stock knobby tire that came on my batch 2 wheel on asphalt feels similar to Pirelli Angel Scooter, but the latter is more comfortable, better in slow speed turns and absolutely quiet. 

[GPSchile]

On 2/12/2024 at 7:36 PM, GPSchile said:

My experience is a little different. What happens with V11 (not V11Y) and V12 series is that if you connect the batteries having a significant difference of voltage between them, it triggers a warning and it if is high enough, the firmware can lock the vehicle for safety as a way to force you to contact a dealer or Inmotion to check it remotely before unlocking it. If the delta is too high there is a risk of energy passing from the higher to the lower charged and if it is a lot, that energy can overheat the cables etc. Perhaps I just saying the same as you but with other words    My point is that it does not matter much if the battery is fully charged or not, but more about the delta between the two batteries. With an adapter I just charge the lowest battery up to the same voltage as the higher one and no problems connecting them to the controller as  an alternative to fully charge them both. I do not like to fully charge unless I am going to use it immediately.
With V13 this step is not needed. It can handle even big differences between batteries automatically without having to equalize their voltages prior installation. With V14 I guess a lot of the V13 has been applied to it, but the different battery setup may have induced some differences on how the packs of the same side are equalized.
For my type of riding in mountains, and crossing small cricks, my V11 has been awesome. No complaints even after getting it fully submersed (my fault). Its 14" rim has been a very good balance between agility and capabilities to surpass obstacles. However, the rim of V14 may be more reliable against impacts, jumps, accidents and similar cases where V11's rim is not as sturdy. Also, a 12" rim may be more agile between obstacles at low speed, climbing hills between rocks etc. I am not getting any younger, so I keep wondering how the lower weight of V11 compares with the higher control of V14 but with higher weight. I am decided for the V14-50S but unless my wife keep forcing me to resell it, I would like to keep my loyal V11.

My main issues are my wife (or my budget  ) and clay mud that forms like an adhesive mass with stones and other things easily jamming the motor. The most beautiful days where I live are after the winter rain, but that's when there's the most risk of burning the controller if the vehicle is not immediately tilted sideways if the motor gets stuck. With the torque that EUCs are getting, perhaps a rear piece that "cuts" the mud from the tire when turning could help. 
Anyway, these vehicles keep getting better and specialized for different purposes. I see so many reasons to be positive and enjoy them. 

I asked Inmotion directly and they answered that V14 has a similar battery management as V13. We can even connect the 4 packs (or batteries) even without prior voltage equalization.