novazeus Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 this is why euc's will just be a distant memory if the manufacturers don't figure this out, like yesterday. don't shoot the messenger, i'm just nostradumbass. https://www.firefighternation.com/news/lithium-ion-battery-found-in-bronx-ny-apartment-that-sparked-deadly-twin-parks-fire-marshals-report-says/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) Innovation doesn't stop because of problems like this though does it ? Humans don't stop doing things just because some people die while we're trying initially. We don't stop flying planes when they crash, we just try to make the next ones crash less, or more helpfully ! Electric cars ain't going anywhere just because a few of them spontaneously ignite. EUC's will be no different, but it may take a while... the next battery tech is just around the corner, and it'll probably solve a lot of this... Edited February 24, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 idk, i hope not. but my recent conversation with one of the biggest multifamily developer in the world, seems otherwise. from another forum member. the dominos are already falling. https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/31136-fordham-university-in-nyc-has-banned-pevs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, novazeus said: idk, i hope not. but my recent conversation with one of the biggest multifamily developer in the world, seems otherwise. from another forum member. the dominos are already falling. https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/31136-fordham-university-in-nyc-has-banned-pevs/ I'd say that a university banning PEV Storage on site while there is a fire risk they can't currently manage is sensible, rather than an indication that dominos are falling... It's a very easy solution for them to implement that costs nothing and instantly removes a whole category of risk they don't need. Eventually though, so many people will want to use them that they will have to find another way, or provide safe storage areas that can manage the fire risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 37 minutes ago, novazeus said: this is why euc's will just be a distant memory if the manufacturers don't figure this out, like yesterday. Looks like this terrible fire was started by a space heater and the two sets of hallway fire doors were propped open by the residents. The e bikes may have make the fire more difficult to fight but I’m glad to know they weren’t the cause. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) i was surprised in 2014 when i rented a 3 story townhouse next door in this apt complex that i had to buy homeowners insurance. they explained that if i left the tub running and it flooded the neighbors, i'd be responsible. this is straight from the horse's mouth. they already ban ebikes from their apts. btw, rick owns an ebike and he and ag spanos are california based, however rick got lucky and moved to clearwater. so he and spanos are more saavy than most. but if u and i know about pev fires, developers and the govt knows too. yeah, they'll make them safer with smaller battery packs and smaller motors. and everybody will have to adjust or stop buying them. Edited February 25, 2023 by novazeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 this is from the article. ya, it's happening. Lithium-ion batteries were responsible for 202 fires in the city so far this year. About 140 people have been hurt and six people have been killed in these fires, FDNY officials said. That’s more than double the number of lithium-ion battery fires the FDNY saw last year. During the same period in 2021, 100 fires had been linked to e-bike and scooter batteries, fire officials said. As a result, some building landlords, as well as several colleges, have banned lithium-ion battery-propelled scooters and e-bikes from their buildings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 rick also said this which is encouraging. my place is perfect for pev’s so i don’t want them banned. “Sorry took me a while to get back to you. Typically we will have bike storage rooms in our remote garage buildings that are detached from the apartment buildings. If the bike room is in a precast garage that is attached to the building then we have a bike room which is 4 hour rated sprinkled. Are lease prohibits the resident from storing their bicycles in the apartment building.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothamMike Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Many of these fires are caused by inexpensive e-bikes that delivery drivers are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztek Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 7 hours ago, novazeus said: this is why euc's will just be a distant memory if the manufacturers don't figure this out, like yesterday. We'll have solid states soon enough. Meanwhile, outside secure storage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/e-bike-batteries-blamed-for-25-nyc-fires-2-deaths-in-2023-now-fdny-is-cracking-down/4122413/ https://abc7ny.com/lithium-ion-batteries-fdny-fires-ebikes/12877507/ Edited February 27, 2023 by novazeus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 this sucks for my outside storage! "keep batteries and devices at room temperature" https://www.fox5ny.com/news/fdny-li-ion-battery-safety-residential-warning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, novazeus said: this sucks for my outside storage! "keep batteries and devices at room temperature" https://www.fox5ny.com/news/fdny-li-ion-battery-safety-residential-warning Keeping batteries and devices at room temperature is fine advice and you're staying nicely inside the "happy place" for batteries. But checking the manufacturer's data sheets, they can be stored quite cold (and like it to be cooler than room temperature) without issues. Hot is another problem though, they do start to degrade rapidly as they get hot. They get dangerous if too hot. If I lived in FL and had the room and equipment and lacked climate controlled storage, I'd dig and put the storage in-ground where temps stay cool. Edited February 27, 2023 by Tawpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Why would it be up to EUC manufacturers to solve an issue that concerns all EVs? Besides, multi-story apartment buildings aren’t being banned either, despite directly and clearly causing the other families to die. Had they been living in separate houses, the fire would’ve been a non-issue… 2 minutes ago, Tawpie said: they can be stored quite cold (and like it to be cooler than room temperature) without issues. Until they need to be charged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conecones Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 6:28 PM, novazeus said: this is why euc's will just be a distant memory if the manufacturers don't figure this out, like yesterday. Yeah..I don't think so.. 202/27,053 = 0.75% from 2018 statistics of fires. More education on fire safety is required, bans won't work and even the most clueless governments understand that. Private entities can ban whatever they wish, has always been the case will always be the case. It's as simple as finding somewhere that will accommodate your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, mrelwood said: Until they need to be charged. CORRECT. Don't charge a frozen battery. But one at 40F is quite happy to charge AFAIK! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 3 hours ago, novazeus said: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/e-bike-batteries-blamed-for-25-nyc-fires-2-deaths-in-2023-now-fdny-is-cracking-down/4122413/ The interagency task force descended on a store front on Thursday where delivery men in lower Manhattan pay to get their batteries charged. The findings at the shop were staggering: Hundreds of batteries were found charging, set up near the front door and rolldown gate. Inspectors called it a recipe for disaster. "They can erupt so fast that it doesn't have time to break the circuit breaker on the power strip, and it doesn't even have time to sometimes trigger the smoke detector," said FDNY Chief Fire Marshal Daniel Flynn. The fire code only allows five lithium ion batteries to be charged at one time. Making matters worse, fire inspectors said the owners of the building illegally converted the storefront with mattresses and bunkbeds present — making it clear that a family was living there. There was also an illegal gambling parlor in the basement, with propane tanks and cooking equipment. "This is in the middle of a residential area. Should Something happen in this particular location, quite a few families would be burnt out of their homes," said NYC Sheriff Anthony Miranda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/woman-seriously-injured-in-brooklyn-fire-where-lithium-ion-batteries-were-found/4102783/ February 14, 2023 Woman Critically Hurt in Brooklyn Fire Where 50 Lithium-Ion Batteries Were Found: FDNY A woman was left critically injured when a fire sparked by lithium-ion batteries blazed through two Brooklyn apartment buildings Tuesday morning, according to fire officials. The FDNY said 50 e-bikes and scooters bearing lithium-ion batteries were discovered on the first floor, and later removed by firefighters. A resident was repairing the battery chargers, according to the fire marshal. "Having fifty inside the same location is tremendously dangerous, and not only that 50 batteries that were not functioning properly," said FDNY Chief Marshal Dan Flynn. "Don’t repair them. If the battery is not working properly, replace it, don’t try to fix it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Here's a more general look at battery tech history and future... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) jason's and euco warehouses burned up. at least jason is trying to prevent more fires by changing battery suppliers. in broward county they banned a breed of dogs, in florida they are trying to make it illegal for letting ur dog hang his head out of a window. this is what govt does. https://recalls-rappels.canada.ca/en/alert-recall/king-song-ks-16s-electric-unicycle-battery-recalled-due-fire-hazard https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Warns-Consumers-to-Immediately-Stop-Using-King-Song-Electric-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Fire-and-Injuries-Reported https://www.cbsnews.com/news/king-song-electric-unicycles-fire-risk-cpsc-ewheels/ https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/eWheels-Recalls-Gotway-and-Begode-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard Edited February 27, 2023 by novazeus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) australia. "Do not charge your electric-bike or e-scooter indoors under any circumstances whatsoever," he said. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-02/lithium-ion-batteries-pose-new-fire-risk-says-firefighters-union/101888598 Edited February 27, 2023 by novazeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) i tend to look at things thru the eyes of the legal system even though i'm not an attorney. but like one of attys told me years ago, the only thing matters is the court. say u move into ur new apartment and u meet ur neighbor and he has a dozen euc's stored in his garage of his townhouse. and he loves riding on the beach through the water and he dutifully hoses them down before hooking them up to his chargers. he owns all gotway wheels and a couple of king song 16s. he says the fire concerns are all bs, he's never had a problem. he always charges his batteries overnight. what do u do? complain to management? u also own a couple euc's. eventually his garage catches fire and u make it out alive or were away on a business trip, but ur wife and two kids lost their lives. ur neighbor that was reckless wasn't home either. who is getting sued? if u have been paying attention to euc's for awhile, u know there's lots of humans that have been irresponsible in their handling of euc's. if u live alone in the woods, as long as it's not in california's tinderbox, no harm, no foul. i think it comes down to money as it always does. insurance companies will dictate to apt complexes what can and can't be kept in apts. ie water beds. in florida because of poor engineering, the insurance companies are filing bankruptcy one by one, because of homes being flooded out. like i said in the beginning, i hope they figure it out because my 325 acres will only have multifamily dwellings, no single family homes and it is perfectly located for humans to use euc's, electric scooters, ebikes, etc. my guy i'm calling shortly that builds apts owns an ebike. i was surprised when he knew what an euc was. again, i'm not ur enemy, i want humans to have transportation that is less polluting to the environment and better exercise for them. i've actually put my money where my mouth is. ostriches are nice birds but not great to imitate. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/bike-batteries-raise-safety-concerns-amid-rise-fires/story?id=95617246 https://besafebuyreal.ul.org/sites/default/files/2020-11/UL Counterfeit Batteries eGuide_Interactive.pdf Edited February 27, 2023 by novazeus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 fyi https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/02/15/e-bike-safety-drives-new-push-de-minimis-reform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 35 minutes ago, novazeus said: 325 acres Storage outdoors......still possibility of a very large wildfire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 We are lucky that e-bikes are taking all the heat for this. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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