the end is near

[mhpr262]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:28 AM, novazeus said:

this is why euc's will just be a distant memory if the manufacturers don't figure this out, like yesterday.

don't shoot the messenger, i'm just nostradumbass.

https://www.firefighternation.com/news/lithium-ion-battery-found-in-bronx-ny-apartment-that-sparked-deadly-twin-parks-fire-marshals-report-says/

"A Faulty space heater sparked the blaze"

 

Well, "dont try to ride your space heater" is our lesson from that I suppose?

[Paul A]

FDNY cracks down on lithium ion batteries use to prevent fires

Eyewitness News ABC7NY

Feb 26, 2023

 

[novazeus]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

Storage outdoors......still possibility of a very large wildfire.

yes, definitely esp california, but mine is mostly pasture and not so wet wetlands. years ago a lightning strike started a fire in the dry part of some wetlands here, and the fire dept was here before i got home from a govt meeting, because of smoke on the interstate. 

i'm more concerned about the heat. i mean Bob doesn't have an air conditioned doghouse and i'm suppose to build an air conditioned wheel house? not very energy conservation like.

2 hours ago, winterwheel said:

We are lucky that e-bikes are taking all the heat for this.

yeah, we're not very well known yet. but thanks to the internet and municode, we will be.

[winterwheel]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

FDNY cracks down on lithium ion batteries use to prevent fires

Curious to know what exactly what rules are being violated there...first time I've heard of (municipal?) regulations around the handling of lithium batteries.

[Paul A]

19 hours ago, winterwheel said:

what rules are being violated

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/e-bike-batteries-blamed-for-25-nyc-fires-2-deaths-in-2023-now-fdny-is-cracking-down/4122413/

 

Video on the webpage link.

 

 

[novazeus]

so i just got off the phone with this guy that helps developers find property and financing for their projects. he has a client wanting to build something here.

anyway, we're bullshitting like i like to do, and he knows i ride wheels, so were talking about multifamily and li-on powered devices. 

he said they are working with a multifamily developer right now that is banning all electric devices like ours from their buildings yet to be built. 

i've been in this construction/development business my whole life and i know how it works. but now instead of stuff taking years to trickle down from nyc to atlanta to tampa, thanks to the internet and municode, these local govts and developers and insurance companies, almost act in unison. sucks, but it is what it is. 

if u wanna keep ur wheel, and u live in an apt, u might wanna start looking at single family housing instead.

when litigation starts, the ambulance chasing attorneys sniff out who has money, and these big reit's aren't gonna get caught holding the bag.

[Paul A]

26 minutes ago, novazeus said:

construction

 

Is silica stone/engineered stone, used for kitchen bench tops, banned in the US?

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

 

Is silica stone/engineered stone, used for kitchen bench tops, banned in the US?

idk. i do know that these granite countertops supposedly put off some radon or some such bullshit. humans worry about emf's etc. 

radon is a concern of mine and there are disclosures on that.

but fires are undisputably bad. 

i also did site acquisition for wireless telecommunication for 3 years, 1999-2002. humans were no fans of towers, yet wanted good service.

https://www.epa.gov/radon/what-about-radon-and-radioactivity-granite-countertops

[JeremySPFF]

It's going to be extremely hard for the government to 'crack down' on any of this. There are so many battery powered gadgets in homes and apartments, there is no way to regulate them. You cant ban ebikes for lithium batteries without banning laptops, phones, vapes, camera's, tablets, electric razor's, electric toothbrushes, electric generators, I could go on forever. If a court took a look at this, they would have to conclude the lithium ion batteries are the problem, and not the devices that use them. Obviously no judge in his\her right mind would ban Li-Ion batteries. Apartments aren't going to be able to enforce bans that aren't law, and will be easily challenged in court. How come he can use his battery but I cant use mine?

 

This same arguments were made for the Horse (dangerous, they kick people, and stink), Cars (dangerous, they catch on fire, and stink), Bikes (dangerous, you could fall off). If we look at history we can see many examples of thinks that potentially hurt a few, but were not banned for the greater good. Until someone can show an accurate historical example of something being banned that was already massively popular and ubiquitous to daily life, I'll take a pass on this. Even things that killed and caused fires like Cigarettes took almost 30 years to ban indoors.

 

More likely we will see bans on transportation medium's like bike paths and roads.

[Tawpie]

9 minutes ago, JeremySPFF said:

It's going to be extremely hard for the government to 'crack down' on any of this

you don't need to fear government (but do keep a very close eye on your overloads), politics will ensure anything is slow and enforcement will be…

Do fear insurance companies though. If they determine you've violated fire or building code, your fire insurance is moot.

[Cerbera]

23 minutes ago, JeremySPFF said:

You cant ban ebikes for lithium batteries without banning laptops, phones, vapes, camera's, tablets, electric razor's, electric toothbrushes, electric generators, I could go on forever.

Yes you can ! You just specify top limits for domestic weight, watt-hours and cell count - any of those measures could distinguish between household devices and our power wheels ! :/ There are cases where it is more nebulous though - emergency PSU / generators, not to mention cars in garages adjoining houses... SURELY they can't stop people doing that ?!

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

35 minutes ago, JeremySPFF said:

something being banned that was already massively popular and ubiquitous to daily life

 

Asbestos.

Chloroform in cosmetics.

Alcohol during prohibition.

Absinthe.

Titanium dioxide in Skittles candy.

Thalidomide.

Hydrogenated oil.

Amy Winehouse.

[JeremySPFF]

Quote

Asbestos.

Chloroform in cosmetics.

Alcohol during prohibition.

Absinthe.

Titanium dioxide in Skittles candy.

Thalidomide.

Hydrogenated oil.

Amy Winehouse.

 

Those things are only bad for you and really have nothing to do with PEV's...

[JeremySPFF]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Do fear insurance companies though. If they determine you've violated fire or building code, your fire insurance is moot.

I'm sure this language is spelled out in your insurance policy right? Can you screenshot it to help educate people?

[JeremySPFF]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Yes you can ! You just specify top limits for domestic weight, watt-hours and cell count

Would you mind giving some examples of batteries that are banned like this? I know there have been some instances of private businesses banning specific devices like the Samsung battery, but this was eventually lifted.

[Cerbera]

8 minutes ago, JeremySPFF said:

Would you mind giving some examples of batteries that are banned like this?

Yes. Batteries on airplanes. Limited by strict power / weight classes. If you wanna take an Airwheel from 10 years ago that is fine, but any modern EUC is not. Yet of course all the laptops and phones are fine, and they even provide charge ports for them !

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cerbera

[JeremySPFF]

3 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Yes. Batteries on airplanes. Limited by strict power / weight classes. If you wanna take an Airwheel from 10 years ago that is fine, but any modern EUC is not.

https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries - Here is the  FAA guidance

https://www.icao.int/safety/DangerousGoods/Documents/eb001e.pdf  - International Ebulletin specifically talking about EUC's

 

Quote

"1. Small lithium battery-powered personal transportation devices are being carried by air as
cargo and by passengers in checked and/or carry-on baggage in increasing numbers. Examples of these
devices include hover boards, self-balancing single or multi-wheels, and mini segways. Some operators
have banned carriage of them by passengers and crew because of safety concerns prompted by media
reports of some devices catching fire. While the Technical Instructions for the Safe Transport of
Dangerous Goods by Air (Doc 9284) currently allow these devices to be carried provided certain
conditions are met, States are encouraged to recommend to operators that they require passengers to carry
such devices in the cabin, where an incident can be immediately mitigated, and not in checked baggage."

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/SAFO16004.pdf - This PDF instructs you on how to transport them.

So basically only banned on passenger airplanes. But cars are also banned right? Mopeds and all motorized transportation? I don't see how 'the end is near' when those types of devices were already banned. An EUC or E-bike is just a new form of personal transportation.

 

 

[novazeus]

if u want to keep a wheel at ur single family home, it probably won't be banned. if u want to keep ur wheel at the apt complex ur living at, they are already banning them. landlords are. not the govt. my local park has banned skateboarders, skaters, etc. 

counties have banned certain breeds of dogs. 

but if apt landlords ban wheels, that narrows the market for wheel makers. can u survive just selling wheels to home owners. the other stuff the govt does like banning wheels from roads or other stuff, is another discussion. if u can power a wheel with a cellphone battery, that will still be allowed. 

i don't think it's a ban on lithium ion batteries across the board, it's the size of the lithium ion batteries. a phone can catch fire, but the fire a 4kw wheel makes is much harder to contain.

stock up on 9b s1's, which aren't sold in the us. 

[Paul A]

Incidentally, the injured person mentioned in the report has since died from her injuries.

FDNY Commissioner and CPSC crackdown.

_______,____

 

Bill Ritter and FDNY's Laura Kavanagh discuss crack down on lithium-ion batteries

Eyewitness News ABC7NY

1,117Views

Feb 16, 2023

 

FDNY's Laura Kavanagh joins us on set to discuss the crack down on dangerous lithium-ion batteries after the recent related Brooklyn fire.

 

 

[Tawpie]

10 hours ago, JeremySPFF said:

I'm sure this language is spelled out in your insurance policy right? Can you screenshot it to help educate people?

Made me look! And guess what… my current policy doesn't have that exclusion (yay!) but my previous insurance company had an exclusion for repairs or renovations that exceeded $2500 and were made without a valid permit including inspection (which would determine whether or not the current building code had been met). I don't have a copy of that policy but for that reason (and my own piece of mind), I have spent a fair amount of money on permits for upgrades (water heaters, and furnaces mostly—anything connected to the gas line!) and for the house we're living in now, did insist on copies of the permits for the electrical and plumbing work that were done by the flippers we bought from. I have little doubt though, if the insurance company suspects I had done something that would allow them to dismiss my claim, they'll be on it like stink on dog do.

But, check your policy, it's probably different than mine.

[gon2fast]

Woke up to news that a local city is banning E-bikes from non-pathed trails. Wonder how long before they revise it to apply to all PEVs. 

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/02/28/palo-alto-backs-e-bike-ban-on-baylands-trails

 

Woke up to news that a local city is banning E-bikes from non-pathed trails. Wonder how long before they revise it to apply to all PEVs. 

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/02/28/palo-alto-backs-e-bike-ban-on-baylands-trails

 

[egossett57@gmail.com]

I’m wondering if the battery was plugged in and did it ignite while still charging or it ignited plugged in and 100% already charged. I keep mine 50% charged overnight  in my bedroom and never leave the charger on after it hits 100% just before I ride.

[Paul D]

I’ve had battery powered lawnmower, leaf blower, weed wacker long before EUC or scooters. 

Are we to go electric or maybe I should go buy a diesel/gas  car?  Everything is a trade off. What’s hard is the whimsical nature of our regulators. 

[Paul D]

22 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Woke up to news that a local city is banning E-bikes from non-pathed trails. Wonder how long before they revise it to apply to all PEVs. 

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/02/28/palo-alto-backs-e-bike-ban-on-baylands-trails

 

Woke up to news that a local city is banning E-bikes from non-pathed trails. Wonder how long before they revise it to apply to all PEVs. 

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/02/28/palo-alto-backs-e-bike-ban-on-baylands-trails

 

Not surprising in CA. 

[sbb]

I see a narrative being formed.