Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[jimjam.nyc]

40 minutes ago, stizl said:

I feel your pain. I also live at the top of a steep hill, and it sucks to leave home without a full charge.

Maybe it’s time to splurge on one of those chargers that stops at 90% for times when rolling out from home…and of course often also do a full charge and balance. I’m hoping that there’s also a charger option out there that will let us charge to 95% or 98%. 

Roger charger is a good option. I use one, you can dial it in to pretty much any voltage and charge at whatever amps you want.

 

[fbhb]

56 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

Cheapest option is a hyper charger from either AliExpress, alien rides, or the Roger charger, where you can adjust voltage.

By far the cheapest option, especially if you already use the EUC World app is to use the "Charging Control" function as you will ONLY need to buy this Smart Plug.

There are many user adjustable options in @Seba's EUC World app under "Charging Control" including an option to choose from: 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% or 100% battery level simply by using your current wheel's standard charger.

Hope this helps someone. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by fbhb

[jimjam.nyc]

Also I noticed my patton phantom drains a bit every day all the way down until around 123v. So if you know you aren't riding for a few days you can balance charge. In a few days it will drop to 124 or so.

[davewood1982]

6 hours ago, fbhb said:

By far the cheapest option, especially if you already use the EUC World app is to use the "Charging Control" function as you will ONLY need to buy this Smart Plug.

There are many user adjustable options in @Seba's EUC World app under "Charging Control" including an option to choose from: 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% or 100% battery level simply by using your current wheel's standard charger.

Hope this helps someone. 

Exactly this! or alternatively just buy any smart plug and estimate roughly how long it takes to charge to what % and just set the smart plug to just switch off after so long. It's fairly easy to work out how long it takes to charge a wheel up to roughly  around 80/90%  once you've done a few charge cycles. 

[Milordas]

is there somewhere list of FW updates changes list? Have smth 0.7 version, worrying about update or do not

[Rawnei]

40 minutes ago, Milordas said:

is there somewhere list of FW updates changes list? Have smth 0.7 version, worrying about update or do not

What exactly are you worried about?

Only positive changes that I know of.

[stizl]

On 9/27/2023 at 4:14 PM, Rawnei said:

Over 126v it did a quiet steep continuous tiltback, continuous beeping (solid signal), the text FULL V displayed on the display, and it stayed that way for a little while even when stopping and stepping off, basically a "get the hell off" function.

I updated today, changed the warning voltage level to 126V, then experienced this too. I first charged fully, which was 125.6V for me after the update. I then descended as slowly as I could down my driveway, which is about 125ft long with a ~25ft elevation drop. I saw the “Full V” warning, but without beeps.  

I thought I was clear at that point and turned in the road direction that is mostly flat, but after riding about 1/8mi of flat road I decelerated moderately and experienced the continuous beep and steep tiltback. After riding about another 1/8mi, I could ride as normal without issue.

It wasn’t the same carefree start of a ride as before the update, but with the positive tradeoff of (hopefully) knowing that neither batteries nor the controller are at risk. 

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, stizl said:

I updated today, changed the warning voltage level to 126V, then experienced this too. I first charged fully, which was 125.6V for me after the update. I then descended as slowly as I could down my driveway, which is about 125ft long with a ~25ft elevation drop. I saw the “Full V” warning, but without beeps.  

I thought I was clear at that point and turned in the road direction that is mostly flat, but after riding about 1/8mi of flat road I decelerated moderately and experienced the continuous beep and steep tiltback. After riding about another 1/8mi, I could ride as normal without issue.

It wasn’t the same carefree start of a ride as before the update, but with the positive tradeoff of (hopefully) knowing that neither batteries nor the controller are at risk. 

I noticed that it won't tiltback or continue beeping if you stop braking and accelerate out of it instead, so at least it's sensitive both ways, you can do a small stop then keep going to get the voltage down again.

126v seems like the logical value to have here.

[stizl]

On 9/30/2023 at 3:59 AM, Rawnei said:

I noticed that it won't tiltback or continue beeping if you stop braking and accelerate out of it instead, so at least it's sensitive both ways, you can do a small stop then keep going to get the voltage down again.

126v seems like the logical value to have here.

After another ride, yes, accelerating out works.  I also experienced the “Full V” warning a few more times under hard braking up to about 2.5mi into a ride, but no beeps and no more voltage warnings after the steady-state (kickstand) voltage was below about 123V.

[stizl]

After noticing that my stock tire was wearing to a square profile in the center with less than 600mi of mostly off-road on it (and feeling the change in low-speed turn handling) , I swapped it out for Shinko SR241.  I was inspired by @Vince.Fab's post on the Extreme thread.

The short version: this tire outperforms the stock tire in pretty much every way, both on and off road.  It fits easily on the Patton with no modifications, is only about 5mm wider than stock when mounted on the Patton's rim, and has clearance to spare to both the battery cases and the fender.  

More details:

Using a diameter tape measure, my ~600mi stock tire was 18+1/8" and the SR241 was 18+1/2".

The new Shinko weighed 2437g and the used stock tire weighed 2074g...the Shinko was 363g heavier. 

After mounting, I did an 18mi ride of mixed conditions, including street, parking lot, trail, and hill climbs (including grass, dirt, and gravel/sand).  This tire shined everywhere, even on street despite having more open tread area than stock, which I am guessing is due to having a more rounded profile with a stiffer carcass and rubber compound.  It turns and carves easily and neutrally from a walking pace up to 40mph.

Coming from years of street motorcycles, I have always avoided tires with circumferential sipes (aka: continuous tread grooves around the circumference), but I couldn't get this tire to traintrack/tramline, and I was trying to make it do it by riding very acute angles across seams in concrete, at least at 26psi.

Regarding stability, I started out at 32psi and found the stability to be equivalent to the the stock tire.  After lowering it to my usual 26psi, I never felt a single twitch, including a few 40mph street runs.  

Low speed U-turns inside the width of a sidewalk are no problem.  In fact, while carving tight figure-eights in a parking lot, I actually had a cutoff due to exceeding the default bank angle setting and crashed, hence the road rash on my front handle in the photo above.  I never did this with the stock tire.  I have since upped my angle setting by 20deg. 

This tire is noticeably more capable off road. In loose, wet mud, this tire kicks ass and the tread has great self-clearing traits.  In areas where the stock tire would clog and spin, this tire would churn the wet mud from under the tire until it hooked up.  It does, however pick up more rocks than the stock tire on gravel paths, but not to the point of causing any problems for me yet.  It also felt more predictable on steep and loose hill climbs.  If it started to spin on a loose climb, it was easier than stock to just stay committed and just let it find the traction to keep climbing.  

I had originally ordered a Heidenau K38 for street use, but after seeing in-person how square it is and after reading @jimjam.nyc's mixed comments on it, I didn't install it.  Here is a photo of all three tires, obviously with only the Shinko mounted, but you can get a clear sense of the profile differences. 

A few more photos:

Stock tire width:

SR241 width:

Sloppy stock tire diameter measurement:

Sloppy SR241 diameter measurement:

Front clearance:

Rear clearance:

Aftermath of spinning through loose mud...the tread quickly cleared itself afterwards:

I promise that I don't work for Shinko.  Ha.  I’m just pumped to have a good tire option from a legit tire company for 12” rims. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by stizl

[DavidB]

N

7 hours ago, stizl said:

After noticing that my stock tire was wearing to a square profile in the center with less than 600mi of mostly off-road on it (and feeling the change in low-speed turn handling) , I swapped it out for Shinko SR241.  I was inspired by @Vince.Fab's post on the Extreme thread.

The short version: this tire outperforms the stock tire in pretty much every way, both on and off road.  It fits easily on the Patton with no modifications, is only about 5mm wider than stock when mounted on the Patton's rim, and has clearance to spare to both the battery cases and the fender.  

More details:

Using a diameter tape measure, my ~600mi stock tire was 18+1/8" and the SR241 was 18+1/2".

The new Shinko weighed 2437g and the used stock tire weighed 2074g...the Shinko was 363g heavier. 

After mounting, I did an 18mi ride of mixed conditions, including street, parking lot, trail, and hill climbs (including grass, dirt, and gravel/sand).  This tire shined everywhere, even on street despite having more open tread area than stock, which I am guessing is due to having a more rounded profile with a stiffer carcass and rubber compound.  It turns and carves easily and neutrally from a walking pace up to 40mph.

Coming from years of street motorcycles, I have always avoided tires with circumferential sipes (aka: continuous tread grooves around the circumference), but I couldn't get this tire to traintrack/tramline, and I was trying to make it do it by riding very acute angles across seams in concrete, at least at 26psi.

Regarding stability, I started out at 32psi and found the stability to be equivalent to the the stock tire.  After lowering it to my usual 26psi, I never felt a single twitch, including a few 40mph street runs.  

Low speed U-turns inside the width of a sidewalk are no problem.  In fact, while carving tight figure-eights in a parking lot, I actually had a cutoff due to exceeding the default bank angle setting and crashed, hence the road rash on my front handle in the photo above.  I never did this with the stock tire.  I have since upped my angle setting by 20deg. 

This tire is noticeably more capable off road. In loose, wet mud, this tire kicks ass and the tread has great self-clearing traits.  In areas where the stock tire would clog and spin, this tire would churn the wet mud from under the tire until it hooked up.  It does, however pick up more rocks than the stock tire on gravel paths, but not to the point of causing any problems for me yet.  It also felt more predictable on steep and loose hill climbs.  If it started to spin on a loose climb, it was easier than stock to just stay committed and just let it find the traction to keep climbing.  

I had originally ordered a Heidenau K38 for street use, but after seeing in-person how square it is and after reading @jimjam.nyc's mixed comments on it, I didn't install it.  Here is a photo of all three tires, obviously with only the Shinko mounted, but you can get a clear sense of the profile differences. 

A few more photos:

Stock tire width:

SR241 width:

Sloppy stock tire diameter measurement:

Sloppy SR241 diameter measurement:

Front clearance:

Rear clearance:

Aftermath of spinning through loose mud...the tread quickly cleared itself afterwards:

I promise that I don't work for Shinko.  Ha.  I’m just pumped to have a good tire option from a legit tire company for 12” rims. 

Nice to know.

The more people who post their experiences with different tires the better for everyone who has an EUC.

[davewood1982]

10 hours ago, stizl said:

After noticing that my stock tire was wearing to a square profile in the center with less than 600mi of mostly off-road on it (and feeling the change in low-speed turn handling) , I swapped it out for Shinko SR241.  I was inspired by @Vince.Fab's post on the Extreme thread.

The short version: this tire outperforms the stock tire in pretty much every way, both on and off road.  It fits easily on the Patton with no modifications, is only about 5mm wider than stock when mounted on the Patton's rim, and has clearance to spare to both the battery cases and the fender.  

More details:

Using a diameter tape measure, my ~600mi stock tire was 18+1/8" and the SR241 was 18+1/2".

The new Shinko weighed 2437g and the used stock tire weighed 2074g...the Shinko was 363g heavier. 

After mounting, I did an 18mi ride of mixed conditions, including street, parking lot, trail, and hill climbs (including grass, dirt, and gravel/sand).  This tire shined everywhere, even on street despite having more open tread area than stock, which I am guessing is due to having a more rounded profile with a stiffer carcass and rubber compound.  It turns and carves easily and neutrally from a walking pace up to 40mph.

Coming from years of street motorcycles, I have always avoided tires with circumferential sipes (aka: continuous tread grooves around the circumference), but I couldn't get this tire to traintrack/tramline, and I was trying to make it do it by riding very acute angles across seams in concrete, at least at 26psi.

Regarding stability, I started out at 32psi and found the stability to be equivalent to the the stock tire.  After lowering it to my usual 26psi, I never felt a single twitch, including a few 40mph street runs.  

Low speed U-turns inside the width of a sidewalk are no problem.  In fact, while carving tight figure-eights in a parking lot, I actually had a cutoff due to exceeding the default bank angle setting and crashed, hence the road rash on my front handle in the photo above.  I never did this with the stock tire.  I have since upped my angle setting by 20deg. 

This tire is noticeably more capable off road. In loose, wet mud, this tire kicks ass and the tread has great self-clearing traits.  In areas where the stock tire would clog and spin, this tire would churn the wet mud from under the tire until it hooked up.  It does, however pick up more rocks than the stock tire on gravel paths, but not to the point of causing any problems for me yet.  It also felt more predictable on steep and loose hill climbs.  If it started to spin on a loose climb, it was easier than stock to just stay committed and just let it find the traction to keep climbing.  

I had originally ordered a Heidenau K38 for street use, but after seeing in-person how square it is and after reading @jimjam.nyc's mixed comments on it, I didn't install it.  Here is a photo of all three tires, obviously with only the Shinko mounted, but you can get a clear sense of the profile differences. 

A few more photos:

Stock tire width:

SR241 width:

Sloppy stock tire diameter measurement:

Sloppy SR241 diameter measurement:

Front clearance:

Rear clearance:

Aftermath of spinning through loose mud...the tread quickly cleared itself afterwards:

I promise that I don't work for Shinko.  Ha.  I’m just pumped to have a good tire option from a legit tire company for 12” rims. 

Looks very similar in profile to the stock kenda knobby on the Sherman, id imagine it rides very similar does it?

[stizl]

30 minutes ago, davewood1982 said:

Looks very similar in profile to the stock kenda knobby on the Sherman, id imagine it rides very similar does it?

I did try the Sherman-S with its stock Kenda, but it was too long ago to make a direct handling comparison here. 

The SR241 looks very similar to the Kenda in tread pattern and profile, but the major differences are construction and rubber compound, so I’d guess handling similarities would be at higher pressures. The SR241 is a highway-rated motorcycle tire with a stiff carcass.

I recall that the Kenda knobs were very soft…so soft that I initially thought something was loose on the Sherman when holding it by the handles in a parking lot, but it was just knobs flexing against the pavement. The Sherman did ride very comfortably and is obviously rock stable, but we’re also comparing a 16” wheel to a 20” one.

The Shinko on the Patton initially felt a bit flighty to me at higher pressure, but after a few minutes of getting used to the rounder profile and harder compound vs stock, it just felt more nimble.  It has a more sporty feeling ride.

[DjPanJan]

11 hours ago, stizl said:

I did try the Sherman-S with its stock Kenda, but it was too long ago to make a direct handling comparison here. 

The SR241 looks very similar to the Kenda in tread pattern and profile, but the major differences are construction and rubber compound, so I’d guess handling similarities would be at higher pressures. The SR241 is a highway-rated motorcycle tire with a stiff carcass.

I recall that the Kenda knobs were very soft…so soft that I initially thought something was loose on the Sherman when holding it by the handles in a parking lot, but it was just knobs flexing against the pavement. The Sherman did ride very comfortably and is obviously rock stable, but we’re also comparing a 16” wheel to a 20” one.

The Shinko on the Patton initially felt a bit flighty to me at higher pressure, but after a few minutes of getting used to the rounder profile and harder compound vs stock, it just felt more nimble.  It has a more sporty feeling ride.

What exactly is this tyre type i want buy and switch for new spring. 

is this? : SHINKO SR 241 3,00 - 16 43P TT

[stizl]

1 hour ago, DjPanJan said:

What exactly is this tyre type i want buy and switch for new spring. 

is this? : SHINKO SR 241 3,00 - 16 43P TT

Sorry, I should have included this information.  No, your part number is incorrect. These tires are sold by their rim size, which is 12”, not the outer “(16”)“ diameter, which is actually 18”+. 

https://shinkotireusa.com/product/trail-pro-sr241-series-tire/211922

The specific size for Patton is 3.00-12, and the Shinko part number is 387-4451 .

I ordered mine from CycleGear.com in the US, and the cost was $40. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by stizl

[EucRiders]

Hello. I just received my Patton (sticker says ir was assembled on 2023 of July). How can I check if this is V1 or V2 version? Some people say V2 comes with higher front handle and updated motherboard, is that true?

[Rollin-on-1]

I'm looking for a thread compound that I can use on all the Patton screws, is compatible with plastics, and is reuseable.  Does anyone have experience with these products - VC-3, 4, 5, or 6?  Any recommendations?

https://www.vibra-tite.com/threadlockers/removable-reusable-threadlockers/vibra-tite-vc-3-threadmate/#compatibility

[Rawnei]

15 hours ago, EucRiders said:

Hello. I just received my Patton (sticker says ir was assembled on 2023 of July). How can I check if this is V1 or V2 version? Some people say V2 comes with higher front handle and updated motherboard, is that true?

There is no V1 or V2, there was demo wheel and production wheel. Wheels produced after 8th of august have a minor change in BMS where they removed the overvoltage protection, checking date on motor is probably closed you will come.

[Rawnei]

Custom Patton Rear Light with 3D printable mount for anyone interested:

[tyyy]

My Patton squeals a lot, presumably due to the rubber sealant ring rubbing on the aluminum axle. I've been considering lubricating it, and in a recent Electric Dream YouTube video, Jack suggested using WD40 (which seems a bit too generic, since they have hundreds of products).

I have lithium grease which if recommended for aluminum, but after some research, I found that Silicone Lubricant is considered most appropriate for rubber materials. However, I also learned that its effectiveness can depend on the type of rubber used. Also good ol' ChatGPT recommends silicone-based lubricants for rubber on aluminum applications.

Does anyone with experience using these lubricants have insights on which might be the most suitable for this situation?

 

 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, tyyy said:

My Patton squeals a lot, presumably due to the rubber sealant ring rubbing on the aluminum axle. I've been considering lubricating it, and in a recent Electric Dream YouTube video, Jack suggested using WD40 (which seems a bit too generic, since they have hundreds of products).

I have lithium grease which if recommended for aluminum, but after some research, I found that Silicone Lubricant is considered most appropriate for rubber materials. However, I also learned that its effectiveness can depend on the type of rubber used. Also good ol' ChatGPT recommends silicone-based lubricants for rubber on aluminum applications.

Does anyone with experience using these lubricants have insights on which might be the most suitable for this situation?

 

 

Never use WD-40 for something like this, you need marine grease, to do it properly you need to remove the motor first and clean out the old grease from the seal then regrease it, I did that on my Sherman S to remove squeaking.

 

Looks like seal on Patton is different from Sherman S though, does it really have two seals? Looks like only one oil seal, in that case you might need to open covers for proper access.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Rawnei

[Kamaz]

Hi, I wanted to ask a question. Today a friend of mine with the latest firmware installed had set the over voltage alarm to 126v and going down a steep hill with a full battery he suffered a cut off and fell backwards without beeping. Isn't the latest firmware supposed to fix this? What is leaperkim waiting for to fix the problem so that no more riders get injured because of it?

We have ridden down the same slope many times with other older wheel models and full battery and never had that problem, why patton does?

Thanks

[Uras]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:44 PM, Spiwrs said:

Yes it’s an option but I just wish something as simple and important as making sure they are torqued to specification would happen at the  factory level when selling vehicles we are standing on. 

Those bolts are still mounting into soft aluminium - that alone has put me off the patton. I do ride off road, off kerbs, down stairs etc - I know this would take a toll on such a setup. I'm kind of interested in the adventure now, hoping that it is better designed and built. It's still at least a year off for me to buy anything; if there's a really good deal on sherman 2 or even v13 I could even get one of those. The v13 would have to be one huge discount though.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Uras

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, Kamaz said:

Hi, I wanted to ask a question. Today a friend of mine with the latest firmware installed had set the over voltage alarm to 126v and going down a steep hill with a full battery he suffered a cut off and fell backwards without beeping. Isn't the latest firmware supposed to fix this? What is leaperkim waiting for to fix the problem so that no more riders get injured because of it?

We have ridden down the same slope many times with other older wheel models and full battery and never had that problem, why patton does?

Thanks

Seems like you were aware of the overvoltage protection so what did you expect would happen?

LeaperKim did a hardware fix  in factory by disabling overvoltage protection on the battery pack BMS, if you want this hardware fix you will have to swap all the BMS on the packs.

Other wheels and now also Patton produced after August will send all that current into the batteries which is not great either, overall it's not great to ride down a steep hill with full batteries on any wheel.

[Uras]

5 hours ago, Kamaz said:

We have ridden down the same slope many times with other older wheel models and full battery and never had that problem

yes, I was doing this too on my 16x - I live on a steep hill. My own fault because I disabled the warning messages. I was reminded of this when my partners 14d gave her a verbal warning. Now if the 16x is fully charged, I just walk down the hill (about 500m). 

I wonder if the battery packs are swollen because of this? Did your other older wheels have that charging feature while braking?