Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[Clem604]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You guys are the unsung heroes.

Hopefully the hall sensor related issue is not wide spread.

 

Haha thanks. I'm hoping to report back to everyone that the wheel works fine without issue. We will see.....🙃

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, WILSONEUC said:

Question is ......BUY NOW....or buy later ?

That's a silly question. BUY NOW. There will always be something that might be marginally or even substantially better… and it will be coming soon.

[KiwiMark]

Hopefully I don't need to be a hero and I have no significant issues with my Sherman S.

Compared to someone waiting for a year so that all early issues are ironed out: Let's say over the next year I have to replace the bearings and at some point have to spend some money on getting a newer version of the shocks (as an example). To me the extra cost and work involved would be pretty darned worth while in exchange for that year of riding a great wheel.  I wouldn't even be out of pocket because of the good deal I got from that 20% discount for 11/11.  It will be a pain if I have to pull it apart and change some component early on, but I'm prepared to take that chance to get my preferred choice for my first suspension wheel.

If I wasn't buying the Sherman S, maybe I'd consider the Commander Pro, but buying a first version of a wheel made by Begode is probably a bigger risk than with Veteran.

[techyiam]

According to Jason's email posted here, Leaper Kim shipped out 300 units. Then another 50 units to eWheels. 

eWheels' batch of 50 should be in the wild now. And I suspect EEVEES first batch should be is out too. And two reported hall senser related cases so far. 

The second batch should be about the same except for the wheel bearings, I believe.

After the second batch owners have put some mileage on them, we should have a better idea of the situation. 

 

[Zach N]

Upgraded the pedals, added grizzla flow pads. I still only have about 120 miles on the wheel, but 101 of those were on one ride. It did everything I asked of it so far. I hit 42 mph at the high, but cruised at 25-30mph for most of it. This is my first suspension wheel and I can say I'm a convert. Hit a few suprise potholes (following to close to a friend to see them), and the shocks saved me from a fall I'm sure I would have had on the OG Sherman. I spent much of the weekend in a parking lot trying to get used to the weight at slow speed. The tire still feels like it's pulling me in tight turns but I feel like I'm adapting. The weight and ride height have been a challenge that I'm hoping I will get used to with time. I still am hopeful that in the future designers can get the weight down as battery tech evolves. IMHO we have reached the point that weight is the main challenge. I want to teach my wife to ride, but she can never hope to ride even the SS with her build. This shouldn't be a sport for just bigger, and typically male riders. As for the pedal and pads: the pedals aren't a perfect fit and the scrape the inner shock cover, but the stock ones did this as well. And the grizzlas don't seem to have enough real-estate to mount entirely towards the rear of the wheel and hang off the back a bit. Admittedly that may just be how I like them setup.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Zach N

[Paradox]

10 minutes ago, Zach N said:

As for the pedal and pads: the pedals aren't a perfect fit and the scrape the inner shock cover, but the stock ones did this as well.

Could you post a pic about this issue?  This is the first time I have heard of it.

[onkeldanuel]

20 hours ago, wstuart said:

So is a hall sensor problem something that would only whow up in the first 10 miles?......1 mile?....... 30 miles?

I'm sort of comforted by the fact that the Facebook cutout occurred at 9 miles...... supporting that this is a problem that happens in the beginning of a wheel's life. 

My Sherman S came with 2 miles testing on the odometer- which I appreciated.

 

 

Knowing you had a Gotway EX before....i want to ask how you like the SS compared? Clearly the Suspension is far superior and so is the Topspeed but whats with the other things like accelerating,  torque  handling 

[Tasku]

5 hours ago, Zach N said:

I want to teach my wife to ride, but she can never hope to ride even the SS with her build. This shouldn't be a sport for just bigger, and typically male riders.

There are many lighter weight riders, also a female that can use this wheel. And other heavy wheels too. When it comes to breaking, have you noticed that there is actually breaking assistant? The pedals will tilt slightly up if you hard break. This is in many other wheels too. Marty Backe had a recent video where they just casually do this, hard break and talk about the "breaking assist". There are also settings you can go through, and you don't need as heavy leans to get same results. "SS" is maybe not a best wheel to start learning, but if your wife wants, she could learn to master it or other heavier wheels. 

Like for most of us, a heavier wheel will be clumsy at start, not easiest start. Learning with nimble wheel and transfering that to heavy wheel tends to work much faster.

[KiwiMark]

6 hours ago, Zach N said:

Upgraded the pedals, added grizzla flow pads.

That looks really good!

[KiwiMark]

6 hours ago, Zach N said:

I want to teach my wife to ride

If she is keen to learn then I'd suggest buying a cheaper 2nd hand wheel, one that isn't too big or heavy. Once she has learnt to ride that you can then look at what sort of wheel she would like to progress to and sell the cheap wheel for similar money to what it cost you. If she wants to go on to a suspension wheel then maybe something like an S22 or a T4 or if there is a new 16" suspension wheel coming out from Veteran or Inmotion then they could be worth considering.

You could let her try out the Sherman S after she has learned to ride, but she may not like something that heavy and prefer to consider a wheel that is a more comfortable size/weight for her.

[Zach N]

22 minutes ago, Tasku said:

There are many lighter weight riders, also a female that can use this wheel.

I agree there are some very impressive riders out there. My wife is lucky to break 100 lbs tho and she can't pick the sherman s up from a lay down. I was looking at a used s18 a local rider us selling pretty cheap. If she get the hang of it the T4 or S22 are strong options, but that is prolly a year out... if she even takes to riding 😆 

[KiwiMark]

31 minutes ago, Zach N said:

I was looking at a used s18 a local rider us selling pretty cheap.

That would be a great way to try out riding because an S18 should be fairly decent as a learner wheel and if it is pretty cheap then it isn't much to spend and you could probably sell it later for a similar price.  I'd recommend buying it and teaching your wife to ride, see how she likes riding and worry about what wheel to get later if she is keen to get a better wheel and keep riding.  For now just get the cheap wheel and see how things go.

[wstuart]

6 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

Knowing you had a Gotway EX before....i want to ask how you like the SS compared? Clearly the Suspension is far superior and so is the Topspeed but whats with the other things like accelerating,  torque  handling 

I actually still have the EX.  I love the EX.  It could not be more different from the Sherman S.  Complete opposite. 

Here's the short version 

The EX is incredibly stable in corners and at speed and has mind blowing effortless acceleration from 15mph to 35 mph, but the suspension bottoms out if set soft and is not very comfortable if set hard.  It feels like a non suspension wheel.

The Sherman will not bottom out no matter how the suspension is set, allowing you to set it for comfort or precise handling.  The Sherman S is very peppy and quick from 5mph to 25 mph, but requires more effort than the EX to push up past 35.  The Sherman S still feels sketch above 30 to me, whereas on the EX is effortless and solid.  The Sherman is incredibly nimble and controllable on trails making it amazing for offroad.  The EX is not at all nimble on trails, making it very difficult to maneuver on single track.  I'm glad I have both wheels.

 

Long Version.

Construction and Feel:

The EX has the ultra heavy c40 motor and suspension components that are at or below the axel.  This creates a  low center of gravity that makes it handle completely opposite from the Sherman (see handling below).  The Sherman has the lighter more responsive sherman motor and more robust rim and a much much higher center of gravity which makes it more nimble and way less stable.  

Handeling:

The gyroscope effect of the c40 motor and lower CG make the EX handle very differently from the SS.  To enter and hold a corner with the SS, I must first tip the wheel over in the direction of the turn and maintain that angle throughout the turn.  The EX feels like does the EXACT opposite.  To enter the corner I actually lean the wheel in the  opposite direction of the turn (see Wrongways intro footage where he does this on the EX). This difference in wheel orientation makes cornering feel VERY different.  The EX feels totally stable like I can push as hard as I want .  The SS feels like it's going to fall over or even worse, when I come out of the corner, the SS snaps back and I feel like I'm going to "highside" and get bucked off.  I felt the same way on my V11, but this is MUCH worse.  Again I attribute these differences to the lower CG of the EX and greater gyroscopic stability of the 40lb c40 motor.  However, the Gyroscopic momentum of the C40 makes the EX very difficult to maneuver in low speed tight corners (as in offroad).  I can just flick the SS around and hit whatever line I want on single track trails - can't with the EX.

Suspension: 

the EX suspension has to be pumped up all the way to 11 kpa (max) to prevent bottoming out.  This means it doesn't have a (soft comfort mode). Also pedal height changes drastically with different suspension pressures.   The SS suspension stays the same height no matter what stiffness and never bottoms out.  The SS suspension gets supremely comfortable when set soft (low compression w/ fast rebound) but this setting makes the SS feel even more vague and unpredictable.  For this reason I have the SS suspension set as hard as possible - so it actually feels kind of like me EX, just no bottoming out.

 

Wind handling.

The EX is completely undisturbed in the wind.  The Sherman S is the most unstable wheel I've ever ridden  in the wind.  I'm getting used to it, but it honestly sucks.  I'm 6'8".  This is a contributing factor.

Final Thoughts:

I'm both pleasently surprised and disappointed by my SS.  I'm surprised and happy with how amazing and fun the SS is offroad.  I wasn't expecting this 97lb wheel to be a capable and nimble suspension trail wheel with the SS.  I now don't feel the need to get an s22 or T4 because of how good the SS is on trails.  I'm disappointed because the SS is not the stable high speed cruiser I was expecting to get (like the Sherman max I sold to get this).  I was hoping it would be rock solid and effortless above 30mph like my EX and Sherman maxbut it's just not.  I'm getting used to it, but I'm disappointed for now.

What's also disappointing is that I'm having a hard time maintaining skills on both wheels.  Yesterday I rode my EX and 16x.  When I got back on my SS today it felt like starting over.  I'm hoping I will develop the skill to ride both wheels.  I might however need to pick one style of riding and stick with it.  

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by wstuart

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, wstuart said:

What's also disappointing is that I'm having a hard time maintaining skills on both wheels.  Yesterday I rode my EX and 16x.  When I got back on my SS today it felt like starting over.  I'm hoping I will develop the skill to ride both wheels.  I might however need to pick one style of riding and stick with it.  

I know what you mean. I heard eventually, the readjustment time reduces to almost nothing. But this could take a long time.

I have this problem with the T3 and the V12.

Surprisingly, I can switch between the V12 and the Abrams with almost no readjustment. This is hard to believe, but that is what it is. Going back to the T3 is a pain in the butt, though.

But the T3 served itself well as a learner's wheel. No regrets.

Regarding wind, the T3 is not very good, the V12 is so so, and the Abrams is by far the best. Very surprised that the Sherman-S did not do better in the wind, considering its weight and 20" wheel size (it's almost 100 lbs. same weight as the Abrams).

Edited January 25, 2023 by techyiam

[Clem604]

3 hours ago, wstuart said:

What's also disappointing is that I'm having a hard time maintaining skills on both wheels.  Yesterday I rode my EX and 16x.  When I got back on my SS today it felt like starting over.  I'm hoping I will develop the skill to ride both wheels.  I might however need to pick one style of riding and stick with it. 

Try and include all your wheels into your riding rotation. I will rotate between the Sherman S, V11, and Mten4 just so I don't forget how to ride each of them. They are all fun in their own kind of way, especially the Mten4!

Edited January 25, 2023 by Clem604

[wstuart]

19 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

Maybe try and include all your wheels into your riding rotation. I will rotate between the Sherman S, V11, and Mten4 just so I don't forget how to ride each of them. They are all fun in their own kind of way, especially the Mten4!

You're right.  I devoted all my time to the SS for two weeks to figure it out.  I need to not neglect the other wheels.  

Man I forgot how fun my 16x is!

 

Anyway, I just got done doing my first trail ride with the new CNC pedals....... wow wow wow.  Having grip on the pedal gave me so much more confidence.  This think absolutely eats up trails.  Soooo much torque, an te high pedals help with avoiding pedal clipping.  There were so many lines I could take with this wheel that just aren't an option with my MSP HT.  I was able to just plow right over rough stuff.  This wheel is amazing.  I did 12 miles and I'm at 92%.  I love this wheel!  

 

[wstuart]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

I know what you mean. I heard eventually, the readjustment time reduces to almost nothing. But this could take a long time.

I have this problem with the T3 and the V12.

Surprisingly, I can switch between the V12 and the Abrams with almost no readjustment. This is hard to believe, but that is what it is. Going back to the T3 is a pain in the butt, though.

But the T3 served itself well as a learner's wheel. No regrets.

Regarding wind, the T3 is not very good, the V12 is so so, and the Abrams is by far the best. Very surprised that the Sherman-S did not do better in the wind, considering its weight and 20" wheel size (it's almost 100 lbs. same weight as the Abrams).

You're right.  I went through a similar learning curve switching between my Sherman Max and V11...... eventually tw transition was easy and instant. 

[Clem604]

Just now, wstuart said:

Anyway, I just got done doing my first trail ride with the new CNC pedals....... wow wow wow.  Having grip on the pedal gave me so much more confidence. 

Yeah they look great and I'm still considering them despite the price increase. I check Hulaj Market every day but they are taking their sweet time releasing the Nylonove pedals for the S.

[Zach N]

10 hours ago, Paradox said:

Could you post a pic about this issue?  This is the first time I have heard of it.

Here is the pic. It might be hard to see, but there is a wear mark on the paint. I first I thought it was just the new pedal, but then when I took off the opposite side it looked like the stock pedals had been wearing at the same spot as well. It seems to be just enough to scratch the paint.

[DragonFZ]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:42 AM, Steve Evans said:

yes, strange. coming from a v12 (which is quite wobbly for me)...

I think wobbles has to do with the 16" wheels at higher speeds. I had that issue on my 16X. The good news is you'll learn how to feel when a wobble is about to start and readjust your footing and how to ride thru a wobble when it does happen. I rode OG Sherman for 2 years. Love the stock knobby tires, it gets more stable at higher speeds.

[Crab]

21 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

I think wobbles has to do with the 16" wheels at higher speeds. I had that issue on my 16X. The good news is you'll learn how to feel when a wobble is about to start and readjust your footing and how to ride thru a wobble when it does happen. 

You got that right, I’ve had a couple close calls on my 16x, but power pads and learning better control habits seems to help you recognize when they first start so you can counter them.

[DragonFZ]

On 1/22/2023 at 4:31 AM, Poker said:

So, if I buy this wheel will I be happy with it for at least 2 years?

The cost and weight is scaring me a bit, anyone had a high speed fall? Not necessarily top speed but like 60%+

I'm curious as to how it holds up tumbling down the street.

No a good idea as a learner wheel, due to the 100 lbs and pedal height. It is doable but harder. Some people get to a point of despair and give up.

Ideally, It is better to start on a non-suspension 16" to 20" wheel between 30 to 65 ish lbs.

"Will you be happy for 2 years..." No, no, no... my 1st wheel (16X) took 8 months and I started eyeing another wheel. My 2nd wheel (OG Sherman) did take 2 years, but I already had my pre-order in a year and 4 months ago. EUC market evolves too fast. After fully paying for my SS, I was already eyeing the Commander Pro.

"...high speed fall?"  Did that on my 16X at 31 mph. I was fully geared for the fall, no problem at all. Since getting the SS, I have upgraded to full motorcycle gear and knee brace level. Also I know how to fall, no rolling, just tuck my arms in and brace for impact. I have a hard shell backpack. Rarely need it, because I don't need to carry a charger. A fellow rider broke his ribs because he had a charger in a soft backpack.

"tumbling down"... no one knows till it happens on YouTube.

[Crab]

Dragon, did the 16x cut out at 31mph? I will not take mine over 24mph after reading of that same issue.😬

[KiwiMark]

1 hour ago, DragonFZ said:

I think wobbles has to do with the 16" wheels at higher speeds. I had that issue on my 16X. The good news is you'll learn how to feel when a wobble is about to start and readjust your footing and how to ride thru a wobble when it does happen. I rode OG Sherman for 2 years. Love the stock knobby tires, it gets more stable at higher speeds.

I had a severe speed wobble on my RS that threw me off, it hurt but I had nothing worse than some scrapes and bruises.  I responded to that incident by slowing down my riding, later on as I gained more experience and got better and realising the wobbles were coming and then quelling those wobbles - that's when I felt OK going faster again.  A bit under 2 weeks ago my V12HT arrived, on my first ride it did feel more inclined to start the wobbles, but now 12 days after I got it I've ridden over 400km and I'm pretty comfortable at 50kph on it.

Once my Sherman S arrives (should be in about a week or so) then I'll get some kilometres on it and hopefully it will become comfortable to ride at speeds of up to 60 (or maybe even 70) kph.

[Planemo]

7 hours ago, wstuart said:

I'm disappointed because the SS is not the stable high speed cruiser I was expecting to get (like the Sherman max I sold to get this).  I was hoping it would be rock solid and effortless above 30mph like my EX and Sherman maxbut it's just not.

Interesting. I honestly would have thought it felt like a slightly taller, slightly heavier Max.

Thanks for your views, good to have from someone who has ridden a fair few wheels, including the Max.