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Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb


RagingGrandpa

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Wow sounds like a good ride and a determined guy!  Would you say the Sherman S is in the same class as the V13?  And would it be better to get a second wheel in a different class or is it good to have two in the same (size, range, weight etc? 

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17 minutes ago, Josiah said:

Wow sounds like a good ride and a determined guy!  Would you say the Sherman S is in the same class as the V13?  And would it be better to get a second wheel in a different class or is it good to have two in the same (size, range, weight etc? 

I'm not sure the V13 would have handled my 100km ride . . . 

The V13 does handle fast riding with decent safety, but it is bigger & heavier, with less range. You shouldn't buy a V13 without knowing that it matches with the riding you want to do. If you don't really know what riding you want to do, get the Sherman S - it will handle a wide variety of different types of riding. If I could only have one wheel then it would be the Sherman S. Add a second wheel and I'd go with something smaller and lighter, like my V12HT or maybe a 16" suspension wheel (there are rumours of 16" suspension wheels coming out from Leaper Kim & Inmotion. If I could have 3 wheels then a 22" wheel would appeal because it offers something different to the other 2.

At this point I'm happy with my Sherman S & V12HT, I don't think I need to add a V13 to my collection.

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12 hours ago, wstuart said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Wrongway mentioned that his bearing issue developed after he rode on salted roads. Im assuming that the wrongway/eevees wheel had been ridden in rain prior to riding on salted roads and didn't have an issue.

Similarly @MrMonoWheel had ridden for a couple hundred miles, but then had a bearing issue after riding on salt water at the beach.  (I've heard this is super fun to do but I've never wanted to expose any of my wheels to salt water).

I wonder if it's the salt??

There's another guy I ride with here in San Diego who routinely rides his Sherman S and Sherman Max on the beach.   His Sherman Max never developed a bearing issue.  I wonder if his Sherman S has.  I'll ask him.

 

Im actually talking to him on telegram, hes in my group. It sure seems like in my case it was the salt water, however allow me to clarify. With the Sherman S I took it on a low tide beach ride with a total distance of about 1.5 miles. I rode on the hard packed sand about 20ft up from where the water line was. The wheel was definitely a little sandy afterwards but I didn't just go blasting through salt water. Now in contrast, I have around 1800 miles on my V11. I took that on the beach for hundreds of those miles, riding through 1-6 inches of saltwater quite often. I even have a video of me riding on a flooded beach in a torrential rain storm, everything (myself and the wheel) were completely soaked. Came home, rinsed it off with the hose, and its still going strong without any issues. 

I know inmotion are known for having good water resistance, but I had no idea other wheels were THIS delicate. 2 miles on hard packed sand vs hundreds in saltwater/sand slurry and the sherman died first.

 

9 hours ago, wstuart said:

So I messaged him.  He has 1100 miles on his Batch 1 Sherman S.  He said his bearings started going at 1000 miles.  He said there was no salt water, but he showed me a picture of his wheel covered in mud.  He thinks the mud did it.  

He plans to install SKF bearings with a Shinko 244 tire

Yep, we both have the same SKF bearings on the way. I am hoping that I can seal off the bearings from the elements better than leaperkim has done.

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29 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Im actually talking to him on telegram, hes in my group. It sure seems like in my case it was the salt water, however allow me to clarify. With the Sherman S I took it on a low tide beach ride with a total distance of about 1.5 miles. I rode on the hard packed sand about 20ft up from where the water line was. The wheel was definitely a little sandy afterwards but I didn't just go blasting through salt water. Now in contrast, I have around 1800 miles on my V11. I took that on the beach for hundreds of those miles, riding through 1-6 inches of saltwater quite often. I even have a video of me riding on a flooded beach in a torrential rain storm, everything (myself and the wheel) were completely soaked. Came home, rinsed it off with the hose, and its still going strong without any issues. 

I know inmotion are known for having good water resistance, but I had no idea other wheels were THIS delicate. 2 miles on hard packed sand vs hundreds in saltwater/sand slurry and the sherman died first.

 

Yep, we both have the same SKF bearings on the way. I am hoping that I can seal off the bearings from the elements better than leaperkim has done.

Just out of curiosity, I recall you did make a pretty thorough pre-riding inspection of much of your wheel’s internals, did this include taking a look under the bearing seals, eg to check out the factory applied grease level, or did you assume (as most of us would) that it should be fine in there? 
 

My thinking is that a) the first batch bearing as a component has been already changed out by Leaperkim, indicating a quality or tolerance issue with the actual product (not unknown in relation to either wheel manufacturers nor their choice of components), but also that the grease may have been the weak link, ie poor quality and/or insufficient amount of grease may have let down a (Chinese made) relatively reasonable quality (I know, this seems a contradiction in terms) bearing component? 
 

Irrespective of this, it’s why I keep off our salted roads here until such times that they are rain-rinsed and bone dry, which basically means once the spring time gets here, usually mid April, so no great rush to get going on my soon to arrive second batch unit.  Still awaiting the release of the Nylonove pedals, like many others!

Edited by Freeforester
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27 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I know inmotion are known for having good water resistance, but I had no idea other wheels were THIS delicate. 2 miles on hard packed sand vs hundreds in saltwater/sand slurry and the sherman died first.

I didn't know the V11 bearings seals are this good.

This year, I did not ride my wheels on the heavily salted roads. 

If the V12 bearings are this good, I may consider it for next year.

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2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I didn't know the V11 bearings seals are this good.

Yeah apparently they are! My V11's bearings are still fine and I have 5100km's on it over almost a year. I have ridden through salted roads a few times and have been caught in torrential downpours without issue. I'm definetly keeping my V11 around even when my S gets here. 

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5 hours ago, Mango said:

Reseal and press on the seal to remove any excess grease.

The recommended fill factor is 30%. Sounds like yours might be closer to 100%. The bearing will push some excess grease out when rotating, but it will push it both ways, also inside the motor. That’s something I would worry about.

 

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Do you ride in heavily salted roads, through snow, slush, or mixture on your electric wheels? 

Through snow, slush and everything, yes. But I don’t think many of the roads I’ve been on have been heavily salted. I do have the 3D-printed bearing covers on.

 I’m happy to see that at least the ShermS has some kind of bearing protector. We’ll see how well it holds up.

Edited by mrelwood
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3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The recommended fill factor is 30%.

The effect of fill factor between 30% and 100% on bearings drag is huge.

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 I’m happy to see that at least the ShermS has some kind of bearing protector. We’ll see how well it holds up.

We have two cases so far from batch one that failed. The person on Facebook said he suspected the breach came about via the channel cut into the axle to route the motor wires, then to the inboard bearing seal.

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@MrMonoWheel

It looks like there is another case similar to what you experienced, reported on Facebook: 

Quote
Ok total mileage was 960km. I rode 5km , stopped , turned power off, power back on to a message "No Con", on no stabilisation. I powered off. then back on, all seemed ok. started my ride but it felt not right. then beep beep beep. I stopped. I saw my km travelled was now 0.1km.... it was 46km... and Total km was now 0.1km as well... it had reset itself back to factory settings WTF.... ok I had to set all the settings as to what I had them.... oh and now in the EUC World app it shows my total mileage as negative 920 WTF..... look at the photo... do I still trust this Sherman S...... also look at tilt angle

 

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5 hours ago, techyiam said:

@MrMonoWheel

It looks like there is another case similar to what you experienced, reported on Facebook: 

 

Yep I'm sure it's only going to keep happening the longer people have the wheel. Hopefully these are all just growing pains, but coming from my V11 which withstood hell for 1800 miles I'm not impressed at all.

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25 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Yep I'm sure it's only going to keep happening the longer people have the wheel. Hopefully these are all just growing pains, but coming from my V11 which withstood hell for 1800 miles I'm not impressed at all.

wasn't the bearing issue identified by leaperkim in batch 1 and remedied in batch 2? have we seen bearing issues with batch 2 SS's?

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5 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

wasn't the bearing issue identified by leaperkim in batch 1 and remedied in batch 2? have we seen bearing issues with batch 2 SS's?

I think it's too early to tell.  

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

@MrMonoWheel

It looks like there is another case similar to what you experienced, reported on Facebook: 

 

Bummer!  I wonder if he's had to completely stop riding it?

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When my batch 2 arrives within the next week or so I'll take a look at some of these observations people have pointed out, stiction, wheel alignment, etc. The positive for me is that should problems arise, I know Eevees will take care of me as they have with my other two wheels and it helps with me being local to them. Hopefully all goes well though, I can't wait to really test the long term durability of the Sherman S so at the very least problems can be identified and potentially solutions can be made for current and future owners.

 

Edited by Clem604
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On 2/2/2023 at 10:48 AM, MrMonoWheel said:

I havent been on here or read the thread since the last post I made, but I am stopping by with some news. Today just like every other day I rode to class, wheel at 96v. No problems. I get to class and turn it off. Once done, I turn it on and it doesnt beep, I look at the screen and it says "NO CON" with all the LED segments on the display turned on like a debug mode (think when you first turn your car on and the whole dash lights up). I turned it back off, turned it on again and the entire wheel was reset. Odometer zeroed out, settings reset to factory, speed in KMH. No idea what caused this, and tbh I am kinda concerned that theres some bug in the code that hasn't been found. If it can hard reset whats stopping it from just turning off/resetting while in use, ya know?

Yeah, I had the same issue after about a month and a little under 500km of riding. I was on a group ride and went to turn my wheel on again after a stop and while I don't recall exactly what I saw the screen did look a little funny and the wheel wouldn't really turn "on". I just did a long press which turned the wheel off, then when I powered it on again the wheel worked fine although all settings were reset, including the odometer (mileage) –and, although I didn't realise it at the time, it also reset the speed warnings. So for the next leg of our group ride my wheel's alarm was blearing away whenever we increased speed over 20 km/h, until we stopped again and I had a chance to go through the menus and set the alarm speed to something more reasonable. Most embarrassing: 😊

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14 hours ago, Clem604 said:

When my batch 2 arrives within the next week or so I'll take a look at some of these observations people have pointed out, stiction, wheel alignment, etc. The positive for me is that should problems arise, I know Eevees will take care of me as they have with my other two wheels and it helps with me being local to them. Hopefully all goes well though, I can't wait to really test the long term durability of the Sherman S so at the very least problems can be identified and potentially solutions can be made for current and future owners.

 

You're gonna love it!  Even with these issues I have been very satisfied with my purchase.  I'll probably have to replace my bearings at some point in the next 1000 miles, but that'll just give me the chance to install the Shinko 244 I wanted to put on it.

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11 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I'll probably have to replace my bearings at some point in the next 1000 miles, but that'll just give me the chance to install the Shinko 244 I wanted to put on it.

You are a glass half full type of guy. Nice and positive thinking.

You make it sound like changing wheel bearings is something straight forward to do, like adding tire pressure.  🙂

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On 2/4/2023 at 9:22 PM, Clem604 said:

When my batch 2 arrives within the next week or so I'll take a look at some of these observations people have pointed out, stiction, wheel alignment, etc. The positive for me is that should problems arise, I know Eevees will take care of me as they have with my other two wheels and it helps with me being local to them. Hopefully all goes well though, I can't wait to really test the long term durability of the Sherman S so at the very least problems can be identified and potentially solutions can be made for current and future owners.

If the store you purchased does check-up on wheels, that is good service. You can prolly ask em if they do check-up and add these in.

My OG sherman had problem with bearings, but only in cold weather(few years ago). If you would have similar experience in cold weather, like bearing makes noise, stop riding. Push it home(or take a ride home, take it to warm conditions in anycase). Your bearings will likely recover from cold and after few hours work as per usual. So you more than likely to "a warning" of sorts. That would prolly mean "summer-wheel" as it is then, as I often tell people to expect from the stock euc, as guideline.

Most of us here in forum have to do extra that these devices work in cold conditions. v11 for one had fairbit of bearing problems in the long run (so it could be one year later your bearing don't work in winter anymore). The later patches usually help to fix some problems, across the board with eucs in general.

If in doubt you should talk to Eevees, is riding in cold conditions a warrantee type a thing. Back in the days, weather or cold conditions riding was not clearly always a warrantee matter with some european vendors. Since you have store close by, I think you can always get it fixed, much better situation than most of us. 

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2 hours ago, Tasku said:

If the store you purchased does check-up on wheels, that is good service. You can prolly ask em if they do check-up and add these in.


 Since you have store close by, I think you can always get it fixed, much better situation than most of us. 

When the wheel arrives I'm going to have them install a new tire. That would be a perfect opportunity for the techs to inspect the wheel and add silicone to area's where there could be water ingress.  

We are pretty fortunate here to have a PEV store (Eevees) that you can just drop off the wheel for service and warranty related repairs as I don't always have the time or patience to be working on my wheels.

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8 minutes ago, wstuart said:

..I was in hard mode.  I switched to Medium.  The wheel takes 1/4 of the effort it used to to cruise at speeds above 28mph.

Very interesting. 

By trial and error, I also discovered pedal sensitivity is higher in Medium Mode than Strong on my Abrams.

It is really easy to go 58+ km/h. 

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17 minutes ago, wstuart said:

......I was in hard mode.  I switched to Medium.  The wheel takes 1/4 of the effort it used to to cruise at speeds above 28mph.

Well, I guess that is something for me to try out on my next ride. I'll report on how I find the difference between hard & medium mode.

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5 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

Well, I guess that is something for me to try out on my next ride. I'll report on how I find the difference between hard & medium mode.

same - i may try medium.

i am not finding stability issues at my speeds <35mph. nor do i have difficulty with acceleration to those speeds (but i am not using the stock power pads - perhaps that is why).

i have been using hard mode exclusively but i would like the wheel to be a little more responsive

where i really have difficulty is in acceleration from low speeds (<10mph) and general braking  

using the stock tire at 34psi

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