Why does the KS s22 pull backwards?

[RoboFixIt]

I haven't noticed any other EUC pull back this hard before. This can't be good for performance?
 

 

[Rawnei]

Because it has a heavy suspension part in the back, set forward angle 1 and lean it a bit more and it won't move while leaning.

[Chriull]

5 hours ago, ElectronxCycles said:

This can't be good for performance

It's just the center of gravity of the empty wheel backwards of the center.

Once one stands on the wheel one shifts the cog by ones weight distribution on the pedals (and by support of some sidepads).

So this has _no_ effect on the wheels performance.

One maybe feels one has to push a bit harder/more and breaking gets easier...

You could get rid of this by balancing the empty wheel with some counterweight at the front. But this will increase the overall weight and has some (minimal) effect on the performance.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Chriull

[MetricUSA]

This is really bad engineering on kingsong side!!! How many wheels have they made already and to do this??? It is a bit unnerving...then to have the travel handle also on the offside... It's like they never built an euc before.... 

They frame does show they tried to shift the weight, just didn't move it enough... 

Edited September 25, 2022 by MetricUSA

[Rawnei]

7 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

This is really bad engineering on kingsong side!!! How many wheels have they made already and to do this??? It is a bit unnerving...then to have the travel handle also on the offside... It's like they never built an euc before.... 

You're making it out to be a problem when really it isn't.

[RoboFixIt]

6 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Because it has a heavy suspension part in the back, set forward angle 1 and lean it a bit more and it won't move while leaning.

That makes sense I just realized this started after I set the lean back! Thank you!

[RoboFixIt]

We could try adjusting the pedals by moving them forward to see if that helps as well

[UniVehje]

10 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

This is really bad engineering on kingsong side!!! How many wheels have they made already and to do this??? It is a bit unnerving...then to have the travel handle also on the offside... It's like they never built an euc before.... 

it’s one of the worst wheels design wise. So many bad compromises. Stupid decisions and unfinished designs all over. And all this is crowned with sloppy build quality after using a year to get it out. Someone screwed up big time there. They had it all together with 18XL and 16X but lost it. 
 

The creeping backwards is one of the least issues and easily fixed. Although the fix means the pedals will be always pointing down. It’s like different people designed the pedals and suspension and they never talked. In the end they couldn’t change the neutral  pedal angle anymore when someone else decided on the shock and linkage weight. So they just shipped the wheel creeping backwards. 
 

It doesn’t affect performance but requires seated position to be too far front. You have to sit on top of the screen which is very uncomfortable. Another blunder there. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by UniVehje

[mrelwood]

Most people will probably hatter me for saying this, but wouldn't an air spring/shock be much lighter...? Maybe they even initially designed it with an air spring, and only changed to coil later on.

[RoboFixIt]

10 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

it’s one of the worst wheels design wise. So many bad compromises. Stupid decisions and unfinished designs all over. And all this is crowned with sloppy build quality after using a year to get it out. Someone screwed up big time there. They had it all together with 18XL and 16X but lost it. 

I've been thinking about this too but I'm starting to realize that it's a really good wheel for DIY projects because it's so adjustable and changeable so I'm planing to get a 3D printer and pimping it right out lol

[The Brahan Seer]

16 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Most people will probably hatter me for saying this, but wouldn't an air spring/shock be much lighter...? Maybe they even initially designed it with an air spring, and only changed to coil later on.

Certainly lighter its an Interesting thought. Also I think an air spring makes much more sense in wheels generally. We use the wheels in so many environments. Air spring fits all, coil spring fits you at one weight only if you set it up right... but coil spring was great marketing and gave a reason to be different and innovative and does provide a different response and feel for those that like it. I'm not knocking coil springs. Just made more sense like on the S18 that those people that would benefit the most from coil springs did so by upgrading to them with exactly the right spec. While the rest of us were happy with the air shocks. But if most people changed their air to coil on the S18 then i stand corrected.

[Rawnei]

Air will require more maintenance and also I suspect it will come with it's own issues in cold weather, leakage is not unheard of and at least you will have to adjust the PSI according to seasons.

Having the right coil setup for me feels like I don't have to care that much after selecting the right coil.

But I'm no expert time will tell.

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

wouldn't an air spring/shock be much lighter...?

Generally speaking, yes.

I think it was a cost move—plus the (unrealized) better compliance on the small bumps that coil provides to a mountain bike. We in our little niche are starting to see why a properly suspended mountain bike is so expensive... there's lots going on and you have to nail a number of different and competing things at the same time. BG went so far as to have their own shock built, and heavier riders have to run it at max spec'd pressure or above to keep it from bottoming out.

Unlike a bike, this shock is being asked to carry the entire load. To me, coil makes sense from a durability standpoint, but it also makes it less 'flexible' in the sense that it gets setup for a particular payload and isn't nearly as convenient to adjust. I plan to use the compression rate and rebound adjustments for different terrains, I'm pretty sure that's why they're so easily adjustable!

Edited August 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[LanghamP]

7 hours ago, ElectronxCycles said:

We could try adjusting the pedals by moving them forward to see if that helps as well

I like my wheels to be "backward creepers" so if the wheel continues onward after a crash it will slow down and tip over.

[mrelwood]

On 8/23/2022 at 6:09 AM, LanghamP said:

I like my wheels to be "backward creepers" so if the wheel continues onward after a crash it will slow down and tip over.

It would be interesting to measure the creeping acceleration and calculate how much actual difference it makes. My guess: Practically none.

[Tawpie]

I think this happened to eevee's when they were filming their "we just received the demo S20" video... in the background you hear the slow beep-beep-beep-beep-beep, which all KS owners know is the start of the "you have ignored me long enough, I'll show you and turn myself off and fall over and dent or scratch something" conversation. The owner usually responds with a bad word and jumps up to keep the wheel from rotating over and ending up on its side.

When their S20 started beeping, Lucas and Bradley startled and you can hear a solid "thunk" in the background, but no subsequent sound of crash-on-its-side... the wheel had shut down and rotated backwards landing on its kickstand.

That's a very long way to say: Tada! It's a feature!

Edited August 24, 2022 by Tawpie

[LanghamP]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:15 AM, mrelwood said:

It would be interesting to measure the creeping acceleration and calculate how much actual difference it makes. My guess: Practically none.

Yes. You should measure it. And then report back.

Edited August 25, 2022 by LanghamP

[plentora]

Isn't there a possibility to calibrate the accelometer to lean forwards a bit?

Edited August 25, 2022 by plentora

[UniVehje]

39 minutes ago, plentora said:

Isn't there a possibility to calibrate the accelometer to lean forwards a bit?

Yes, easy to do. No need to calibrate. There’s a slider setting for pedal angle in the app. 

[Elliott Reitz]

I set my S22 for 3 degrees forward tilt.  That feels better to ride and has the side-effect of fixing the backwards creeping when leaned beside walls.

[onkeldanuel]

8 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

I set my S22 for 3 degrees forward tilt.  That feels better to ride and has the side-effect of fixing the backwards creeping when leaned beside walls.

3 degree is huge.....i like forward tilted pedals too, but Max 1 ° 

[mrelwood]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:18 AM, LanghamP said:

Yes. You should measure it. And then report back.

I surely will, as soon as I'm about to change my wheel settings or make purchase decisions based on my assumption. 

[oekmekci]

I don't want to tilt my wheel for idle balance which would conflict with my driving tilt angle. Kingsong should implement a separate tilt angle configuration for when the device is idle and without load.

[LanghamP]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:09 AM, mrelwood said:

I surely will, as soon as I'm about to change my wheel settings or make purchase decisions based on my assumption. 

Yes. You should measure it. And then report back.

[meriwald]

Actually a good thing, I always make my wheels pull back a bit. I think it's safer as in case you loose it and it keeps going (happens a lot) it won't be accelerating. It wont stop completely of course but can reduce damage.

Also useful for a ghost rider trick