US federal agency wants a recall of Kingsong 16s due to fire hazard

[GothamMike]

On 7/12/2022 at 12:11 PM, Wolverine said:

Consumer Product Safety Comission (CPSC) Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using King Song Electric Unicycles Due to Fire Hazard - Fire and Injuries Reported
CPSC urges consumers to stop using the unicycles with model number KS-16S immediately and dispose of them at a recycling facility or household hazardous waste collection point. 
CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Warns-Consumers-to-Immediately-Stop-Using-King-Song-Electric-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Fire-and-Injuries-Reported?fbclid=IwAR1cubq61WmLl1_I1wbna2_HB8yypoQ5xIjxILNwlLtKXNcQzXNs-m7BEMY

Basically nobody can sell them, nor transport them, in the USA.
 

Edited July 14, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(split w/ quote)

[RagingGrandpa]

53 minutes ago, Wolverine said:

July 12, 2022
CPSC urges consumers to stop using the unicycles with model number KS-16S immediately and dispose of them

Bizarre, a very old model... and they didn't say which battery option was affected. I presume it's the most common USA config (67V 840wh).

Sad to see EUC getting federal attention.

6 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

Basically nobody can sell them, nor transport them, in the USA.

Why's that? 

Thx

[Forwardnbak]

just the 16s hey? 

Shame. 

[enaon]

Quote

King Song and EWheels have refused to recall the product.

Can someone explain what the https://www.cpsc.gov/ is for someone that watches a lot of Hollywood movies like myself? 

How did they ask Kingsong, did they really mailed them and said hello, I am the gov, please recall? 

Edited July 12, 2022 by enaon

[RagingGrandpa]

On 7/12/2022 at 1:38 PM, enaon said:

Can someone explain what the https://www.cpsc.gov/ is

It's a US federal government agency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Consumer_Product_Safety_Commission
(We have dozens of federal agencies.)

They can impose regulation (including prohibition) of items sold to the public here.

Quote

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission is charged with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of serious injury or death from thousands of types of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. The CPSC is committed to protecting consumers and families from products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical, or mechanical hazard. The CPSC's work to ensure the safety of consumer products - such as toys, cribs, power tools, cigarette lighters, and household chemicals - contributed significantly to the decline in the rate of deaths and injuries associated with consumer products over the past 30 years.

 

On 7/12/2022 at 1:38 PM, enaon said:

How did they ask Kingsong, did they really mailed them and said hello, I am the gov? 

Well, yes, a CPSC employee likely contacted Kingsong directly and requested action. 
Kingsong is not forced to do anything CPSC says, because they do not operate in USA. So they probably ignored it. 

An actual import ban would require the agency to go through additional process, leading to informing USCBP to monitor for and reject goods. 
(This hasn't risen to that level, and is only a public announcement at this time. There is no ban.)
 

Edited July 14, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[mike_bike_kite]

Weird. The KS-16S has always seemed to be one of the safest wheels by one of the safest manufacturers. 

[enaon]

Just now, RagingGrandpa said:

Well, yes, a CPSC employee likely contacted Kingsong directly and requested action. 
Kingsong is not forced to do anything CPSC says, because they do not operate in USA. So they probably ignored it. 

a bit funny but I get that they may did that. But on the movies they don't politely ask the local importer. How is it possible for ewheels to refuse?

[Planemo]

2 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Weird. The KS-16S has always seemed to be one of the safest wheels by one of the safest manufacturers. 

Thats what I was thinking. The CPSC would have kittens over the 900Wh Gotway packs 

[RagingGrandpa]

On 7/12/2022 at 1:56 PM, enaon said:

How is it possible for ewheels to refuse?

It's because of the difference between a "request" and a "command." There is no official regulation yet, so this was simply a request.
 

On 7/12/2022 at 1:53 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

The KS-16S has always seemed to be one of the safest wheels

It uses Cobalt-type Li-Ion batteries, like nearly all EUC's, so the hazard is ever-present.

The trends from this thread compel us to consider:

• Was there water damage?
• Was the wheel operating abnormally (won't fully recharge, etc)?
• Was the battery repaired or modified? 

In many of the instances, the answer to at least one of these was 'yes'...
 

Edited July 14, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Wolverine said:

Consumer Product Safety Comission (CPSC) Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using King Song Electric Unicycles Due to Fire Hazard - Fire and Injuries Reported
CPSC urges consumers to stop using the unicycles with model number KS-16S immediately and dispose of them at a recycling facility or household hazardous waste collection point. 
CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Warns-Consumers-to-Immediately-Stop-Using-King-Song-Electric-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Fire-and-Injuries-Reported?fbclid=IwAR1cubq61WmLl1_I1wbna2_HB8yypoQ5xIjxILNwlLtKXNcQzXNs-m7BEMY

 

Hmm, they should recall all cars also then.. I bet more people die, get hurt from car accidents, than euc.  Someone was "high" on something there - to only recall kingsong. They should have recalled all eucs.  Let the "high" one keep smoking/dreaming. Was good joke doh. I had a laugh.

If they cover my euc cost - here take it. Otherwise fuck off - i spent money, it's mine. 

28 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Weird. The KS-16S has always seemed to be one of the safest wheels by one of the safest manufacturers. 

Simply some "higher power snobs" had noticed that wheel. And in general that case. Otherwise gotway would have been banned long time ago. Kingsong simply was the unlucky one to get seen first.

25 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Thats what I was thinking. The CPSC would have kittens over the 900Wh Gotway packs 

True.  Simply "wrong place, wrong time."  Unlucky kingsong to get seen first.

Can't wait till they "try" to ban these eucs. Same time go ban all E-cooters, E-bikes. And teslas - they also have burned.  Everything "E" is "dangerous".

Edited July 12, 2022 by Funky

[360rumors]

@Funky I’m afraid of an EUC ban too which is why I hope there are more wheels that use LiFePO4. I think even the government agencies would be satisfied with their safety. 

[Funky]

16 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

@Funky I’m afraid of an EUC ban too which is why I hope there are more wheels that use LiFePO4. I think even the government agencies would be satisfied with their safety. 

If you want safety - we need "solid state" batteries faster..

 

I don't really care if they ban or not. I bought the damn thing with my money - and i will use it.

If they want to ban these thing and get these things destroyed - they better cover my euc cost. Otherwise they can say whatever they want. I bought it and i will use it.

Some idiot "thinks" of new law/rule and we the "sheeps" have to follow it. Fuck off tards. Next year they will make a bill for oxygen - and we will need to pay 10$ a month for simply existing. Ohh wait there's already something like that.... Simply fuck them.

I will find these idiots who thinks these dum rules/laws and shot them myself personally. Nah it wasn't a "threat" it was a promise. I'm sick of these idiots in world governing everyone else. - Just check that report: KInGsoNg BAd, Reeee, ReCAl aLL Ks16s - theY BadD - Hurrr Durr... No battery reports - no nothing, simply idiotic report. No information given, nothing.. The same thing as saying "car" bad, "car" kill/hurt people.  

Edited July 12, 2022 by Funky

[360rumors]

@Funky I get it but would you be ok if your neighbor insisted on keeping explosives in their apartment next to yours?  We have to show them that EUCs are sufficiently safe. It is not enough for us to say we paid for them.

[Funky]

2 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

@Funky I get it but would you be ok if your neighbor insisted on keeping explosives in their apartment next to yours?  We have to show them that EUCs are sufficiently safe. It is not enough for us to say we paid for them.

So you compare euc to explosives.  If we look like that - we all are terrorists.

I'm simply saying how it is. If they want to "ban" eucs, they should ban everything "E" - because they use the same batteries, no? Everything that uses batteries can burn.. It's simply dumb to go after one "pev" not all of them. - That right there is simply dumb and stupid law/rule. Which can be ignored.

[RagingGrandpa]

23 minutes ago, Funky said:

Unlucky kingsong to get seen first.

I don't think 2 nonfatal injuries will stand out to anyone at CSPC...

Quote

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/Micromobility-Products-Related-Deaths-Injuries-and-Hazard-Patterns-2017–2019.pdf 

[360rumors]

3 minutes ago, Funky said:

So you compare euc to explosives.  If we look like that - we all are terrorists.

I'm simply saying how it is. If they want to "ban" eucs, they should ban everything "E" - because they use the same batteries, no? Everything that uses batteries can burn.. It's simply dumb to go after one "pev" not all of them. - That right there is simply dumb and stupid law/rule. Which can be ignored.

Im showing that merely paying for something is not a sufficient or convincing argument. 
As for other battery powered devices, many of them have much more advanced BMS than our EUCs, and much more robust protection, so they can be readily distinguished from EUCs if there are any regulations.  
Just as important, we are a very small group of people. If EUCs harm enough bystanders or non-riders, it is conceivable that they could be banned.

[Funky]

20 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I don't think 2 nonfatal injuries will stand out to anyone at CSPC...

Like anyone who just got hurt will.  I bet they won't buy anything "E" ever again. Simple logic. 

10 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

Im showing that merely paying for something is not a sufficient or convincing argument. 
As for other battery powered devices, many of them have much more advanced BMS than our EUCs, and much more robust protection, so they can be readily distinguished from EUCs if there are any regulations.  
Just as important, we are a very small group of people. If EUCs harm enough bystanders or non-riders, it is conceivable that they could be banned.

Hey i'm 100% for better, more safe euc's. I doubt anyone would be against that. Heck i would pay 1000$ extra if i knew my wheel will never "burn"..

I'm just more realistic. Do you think china.. China will do something about that? Maybe in 5-10 years when they are banned in most countries..

Maybe if USA or someone else starts to build eucs also, we will get something much, much better. Otherwise we will get occasion fires. 

 

I will simply keep using my device as nothing has happened.. Even if law changes. (At the moment we don't have any in my country..)

Edited July 12, 2022 by Funky

[360rumors]

Yes I agree that’s why solid state batteries can’t come soon enough. But meanwhile LiFePO4 is quite safe and will produce smoke but will not combust. But so far there is only one wheel that offers that option, in part because most riders are choosing wheels that have longer range for the same price. Hopefully manufacturers will continue to offer LiFePO4 before overly eager regulators try to ban all EUCs regardless of fire risk.

[mike_bike_kite]

39 minutes ago, Funky said:

I don't really care if they ban or not. I bought the damn thing with my money - and i will use it.

Here in the UK they're illegal and they can confiscate your wheel. Unfortunately they can also put 6 penalty points on your license - that means your insurance costs will go up on any other vehicle, for some it might also mean losing their jobs. Plus, if you get caught again, then you lose your driving license for years (not sure how many). It seems a crazy punishment for trying to be greener, saving money when petrol costs £8/gallon, reducing our reliance on Russian oil while reducing pollution and congestion.

4 minutes ago, Funky said:

I'm just more realistic. Do you think china.. China will do something about that? Maybe in 5-10 years when they are banned in most countries..

Would your wife allow one in the house if she knew the risk? What would you do if your home insurance stated you couldn't have one on the property because of that fire risk? What would you do if it then burnt down your home? Your neighbours home? There's many ways these things can be effectively banned.

[Funky]

5 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Here in the UK they're illegal and they can confiscate your wheel. Unfortunately they can also put 6 penalty points on your license - that means your insurance costs will go up on any other vehicle, for some it might also mean losing their jobs. Plus, if you get caught again, then you lose your driving license for years (not sure how many). It seems a crazy punishment for trying to be greener, saving money when petrol costs £8/gallon, reducing our reliance on Russian oil while reducing pollution and congestion.

"Confiscate" you mean steal? Here i fixed that for you.  They will need to catch me first, before i give it to someone. Because it's plain simple thievery. "Confiscate" Ha.. makes me laugh.

Good thing i don't have license. Also i don't drive with cars - so they can't give a crap. (Question: Can you get penalty points, if you ride regular bike on sidewalk?)

5 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Would your wife allow one in the house if she knew the risk? What would you do if your home insurance stated you couldn't have one on the property because of that fire risk? What would you do if it then burnt down your home? Your neighbours home? There's many ways these things can be effectively banned.

We got 2 wheels. We know what can happen. We really don't think about that. "Home insurance" We don't have one. Heck our 3 room apartment cost ~35k.. Older "brick" 5floor house. (Fire literally can't spread to neighbors..) Worst case scenario everything will burnout. Best scenario 1 room burns down. ~10k down the drain. I'm thinking of buying metal cabinet for mine wheel.. At least there will be only smoke damage if fire happens.

[Robse]

On 7/12/2022 at 12:11 PM, Wolverine said:

CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building

 

 

Anybody who knows anything more detailed about this "one fire"? ( and lawsuit ) 

And does this thread contain information about any 16S on fire? Edit, found this: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/13590-ks-16s-caused-a-fire/

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(url bugfix)

[GothamMike]

6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Here in the UK they're illegal and they can confiscate your wheel. Unfortunately they can also put 6 penalty points on your license - that means your insurance costs will go up on any other vehicle, for some it might also mean losing their jobs. Plus, if you get caught again, then you lose your driving license for years (not sure how many). It seems a crazy punishment for trying to be greener, saving money when petrol costs £8/gallon, reducing our reliance on Russian oil while reducing pollution and congestion.

Would your wife allow one in the house if she knew the risk? What would you do if your home insurance stated you couldn't have one on the property because of that fire risk? What would you do if it then burnt down your home? Your neighbours home? There's many ways these things can be effectively banned.

Insurance companies can ban them, or raise you rates so high it will not be economically feasible. Landlords can ban them, Suburban homeowners will need a "he-shed" for charging.

Recall Chevy no longer recommends indoor charging for the Bolt.

[alcatraz]

This is a bit unsettling. Hopefully it stays at recommendation, and not a requirement/law.

I've thought about EUCs aging and what would happen to all of them eventually. It's probably just a matter of time before the bms stops working. Are new EUCs going to get import bans because tons of 5-15y old wheels are going up in smoke?

[supercurio]

18 hours ago, Wolverine said:

Consumer Product Safety Comission (CPSC) Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using King Song Electric Unicycles Due to Fire Hazard - Fire and Injuries Reported
CPSC urges consumers to stop using the unicycles with model number KS-16S immediately and dispose of them at a recycling facility or household hazardous waste collection point. 
CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Warns-Consumers-to-Immediately-Stop-Using-King-Song-Electric-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Fire-and-Injuries-Reported?fbclid=IwAR1cubq61WmLl1_I1wbna2_HB8yypoQ5xIjxILNwlLtKXNcQzXNs-m7BEMY

 

The weirdest part to me here is that "CPSC is aware of one fire"

One fire, so everybody should immediately dispose of them at a recycling facility? What the hell.
Not saying there isn't issues with EUC fires, and to be more specific, systemically regarding the 900Wh Gotway packs, but this is an extremely odd approach.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, supercurio said:

The weirdest part to me here is that "CPSC is aware of one fire"

One fire, so everybody should immediately dispose of them at a recycling facility? What the hell.
Not saying there isn't issues with EUC fires, and to be more specific, systemically regarding the 900Wh Gotway packs, but this is an extremely odd approach.

They also said:

Quote

CPSC tested the product and determined the battery pack can overheat and presents a risk of fire.