KS-16S caused a fire...

[eddiemoy]

https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/charging-electric-unicycle-sparks-greenwich-village-fire/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

Article says it was charging:

"A two-alarm fire that broke out in a Greenwich Village building Wednesday was caused by an electric unicycle that was charging at the scene, officials revealed Thursday"

But rider confirm, then denied it was charging.  He was clearly angry and not in the right state of mind when I replied to him.  

Don't know what to believe.  If we are to believe the owner, then this is the first case of a wheel exploding spontaneously.  Although he maybe in shock and couldn't remember.

 

[GQS]

The owner should be given the benefit of the doubt for his version of events.  But in everyone's mind, I am sure we have our own doubts on whether we ourselves would have been charging our wheels during "therapy session"...  I think there is a desire to top off the battery if opportunity permits.  Although we've all seen that video of that IPS that caught fire while the dude was riding it in his apartment hallway.  i guess it COULD spontaneously happen.

Use your Charge Doctors and keep those battery packs at no more than 80% for max life.  Stay safe.

Edited May 9, 2019 by GQS

[tessa25]

I read his comment to mean he uses the original charger when he charges it. Not that he was charging it at the time of the fire. Why can't a wheel be upright during charging?

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, tessa25 said:

I read his comment to mean he uses the original charger when he charges it. Not that he was charging it at the time of the fire. Why can't a wheel be upright during charging?

We first read the NY POST article where it said it was charging.  Then David asked if he was using the original charger to charge it.  

Have you had your wheel rotate forward or back and come crashing down?  Imagine if you had your charger plugged in.  I assume he had his wheel propped up against the wall upright not on a stand where it couldn't rotate over.

[tessa25]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

We first read the NY POST article where it said it was charging.  Then David asked if he was using the original charger to charge it.  

Have you had your wheel rotate forward or back and come crashing down?  Imagine if you had your charger plugged in.  I assume he had his wheel propped up against the wall upright not on a stand where it couldn't rotate over.

I use a guitar stand.

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, tessa25 said:

I use a guitar stand.

It is fine if it is on a stand with little chance to rotate while charging.  

[Stan C]

what happen if the wheel rotate when charging??? thats gonna cause a fire?

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/charging-electric-unicycle-sparks-greenwich-village-fire/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

Article says it was charging:

"A two-alarm fire that broke out in a Greenwich Village building Wednesday was caused by an electric unicycle that was charging at the scene, officials revealed Thursday"

But rider confirm, then denied it was charging.  He was clearly angry and not in the right state of mind when I replied to him.  

Don't know what to believe.  If we are to believe the owner, then this is the first case of a wheel exploding spontaneously.  Although he maybe in shock and couldn't remember.

 

Based on how rude this guy is I would want no interactions with him and would doubt what he did say. I'm really wary of people like this.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, tessa25 said:

I read his comment to mean he uses the original charger when he charges it. Not that he was charging it at the time of the fire. Why can't a wheel be upright during charging?

I better rush home because I charge all of my wheels as they are standing up and leaning against the wall 

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Based on how rude this guy is I would want no interactions with him and would doubt what he did say. I'm really wary of people like this.

I gave him a pass because of what he went through.  He calm down after.  We try to understand what people are going through even though we haven't been through it.  Makes for a better world...

But so far here is what we know....  his wheel was old, 8000km on it when he sent it to ewheels for an overhaul back in nov 2018.  KS is now involved to try to figure out what happen to the wheel.  i'm concerned that it may point back to the overhaul.  

He has confirmed multiple times that the wheel wasn't being charged when it went up in flames.  He said that he had to jump through a fire as tall as him and two firemen were hurt putting out the fire.  

I'm also concerned that this will put the EUC's in a bad light and might get it banned in NYC by type.  Sucks!  Only takes one incident.  

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Stan C said:

what happen if the wheel rotate when charging??? thats gonna cause a fire?

There is a possibility that it can cause a short circuit is my thinking if it fall the wrong way especially with the heavier wheels while it is plugged in.  I would advise against just having it propped up against a wall when charging even if there has been no reported cases of this happening. 

[LanghamP]

A wheel should be safe to charge off a stand.

It should be safe to charge when it falls off-hand.

It should be safe to start regardless of you be young or an old fart.

Design it, I say, for both frownies and gays, as some of us townies ride minutes and others ride for days.

Drop, and we pop (say I the wheel), and while others have helmets we who don't bother have platelets (for the asphalt God is greedy for riders who be batty).

Fire, nah, 'tis only for hilclimbing fools, not dire New Yorkers riding Kingsong's jewels.

Edited May 10, 2019 by LanghamP

[Darrell Wesh]

12 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

A wheel should be safe to charge off a stand.

It should be safe to charge on a stand.

It should be safe to charge when it falls off a stand or a wall.

 

I thought this was about to rhyme and @LanghamP was gonna go Dr Seuss on us

Edited May 10, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I thought this was about to rhyme and @LanghamP was gonna go Dr Seuss on us

[Michael Tucker]

Anything electrical can cause a fire; lamps, laptops, cell phones, ovens, etc. If city council members are looking for an excuse to ban something for ulterior motives, yes just one instance can be used. As far as emergency workers getting injured, that too randomly happens in all scenarios and is not an indication of the particular nature of an indoor electrical fire. Emergency responders face danger at every fire, thats what makes that job impressive and heroic! It's no secret that lithium-ion batteries are inherently dangerous, and also an un-avoidable part of modern life that can be found in every single home, office, hospital, school and airplane. No need for this posting to cause a scare, but simply a reminder that fire danger is always present, even with trusted brands and companies.

[winterwheel]

I'd be curious to know if anyone actually saw what happened, such as maybe the therapist. Its odd to me that the Fire Department would give wrong information to several different newspapers, and that the victim is so bitterly complaining about not having been compensated less than 24 hours after the incident.

[Stan C]

2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

There is a possibility that it can cause a short circuit is my thinking if it fall the wrong way especially with the heavier wheels while it is plugged in.  I would advise against just having it propped up against a wall when charging even if there has been no reported cases of this happening. 

Thank you Eddie for clearing this up

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I thought this was about to rhyme and @LanghamP was gonna go Dr Seuss on us

I went Dr Seuss on you.

A wheel should be safe to charge off a stand.

It should be safe to charge when it falls off-hand.

It should be safe to start regardless of you be young or an old fart.

Design it, I say, for both frownies and gays, as some of us townies ride minutes and others ride for days.

Drop, and we pop (say I the wheel), and while others have helmets we who don't bother have platelets (for the asphalt God is greedy for riders who be batty).

Fire, nah, 'tis only for hilclimbing fools, not dire New Yorkers riding Kingsong's jewels.

[chulander]

i hope more details emerge.

I go to therapy in NYC, its a 30 minute session each month and I can't help but have some doubts about the story.

so the rider rode the wheel to the office and powers off the wheel at the front door. He trolleys the kingsong through the lobby (probably rode the elevator) and proceeds to the office where he registers his arrival at reception without issue.

After sitting in the waiting room for a few minutes, the therapist is ready to see him and then....? I'm curious where the wheel at this point since I trolley the tesla/msx into my session and its in my sight the entire time because the receptionist job description doesn't include being responsible for patient's valuables.

If it was going to blow up, there was plenty of time to blow up between the lobby and the start of the session and nobody noticed a thing until the sudden explosion?

there's seems to be a huge gap in the timeline....

If NYC medical offices have a message board/chat group and are talking about this, it will be extremely frustrating trying to calm the fears each time we step into one.

Edited May 10, 2019 by chulander
fears of NYC banning EUCs because of one incident

[Jason McNeil]

This is the information we have so far: 

• The Wheel had 7000km, in 9 months, when it was sent in for repair in late November  
• It had sustained multiple crashes (David had written this in an earlier communication), destroyed inner-shell, chew-up motor wires, which also destroyed the controller; it was a unique specimen of a damaged Wheel. We have a good documentary trail for this repair.   
• When it was sent back out, everything was changed except the battery pack. There was no visual indication, or other evidence that anything was wrong with the pack at that time.
• Assuming that it had done similar mileage over the intervening 5 months, it had then clocked up a further 4000+ km; possible subsequent crash damage? Quite probably. 
• He had been using only the standard 2A charger with the Wheel, he has also confirmed it was not charging at the time it lit up. 
• His therapist is another first-hand eye-witness account who can corroborate what exactly happened at the time. I will be contacting both the therapist & the NY Fire Department to assist in the investigation.

At this moment, it's not clear what evidence is recoverable from the site. If one had to speculate into causation, then based on what we know from the V10F affair, if water does permeate into the cells, accelerated corrosion will cause a short between the electrodes, creating a runaway cell thermal chain reaction.

Understandably David is in a state of shock & is angry, replacing the Wheel is small beans; what is important to me, is that we have a clearer picture on causation, so a similar event does not happen again. As bad as the situation is, it might have been a whole lot worse!  

Edited May 10, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, chulander said:

i hope more details emerge.

I go to therapy in NYC, its a 30 minute session and I can't help but have some doubts about the story.

so the rider rode the wheel to the office and powers off the wheel at the front door. He trolleys the kingsong through the lobby (probably rode the elevator) and proceeds to the office where he registers his arrival at reception without issue.

After sitting in the waiting room for a few minutes, the therapist is ready to see him and then....? I'm curious where the wheel at this point since I trolley the tesla/msx into my session and its in my sight the entire time because the receptionist job description doesn't include being responsible for patient's valuables.

If it was going to blow up, there was plenty of time to blow up between the lobby and the start of the session and nobody noticed a thing until the sudden explosion?

there's seems to be a huge gap in the timeline....

For my broken shoulder doctor and therapy sessions, I trolleyed my wheel into both offices and it rested against the wall with me as I saw the doctor. Isn't that what's particularly nice about our wheels? We can non-intrusively take them anywhere we go.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

25 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

This is the information we have so far: 

• The Wheel had 7000km, in 9 months, when it was sent in for repair in late November  
• It had sustained multiple crashes (David had written this in an earlier communication), destroyed inner-shell, chew-up motor wires, which also destroyed the controller; it was a unique specimen of a damaged Wheel.  
• When it was sent back out, everything was changed except the battery pack. There was no indication, or evidence that anything was wrong with the pack at that time.
• Assuming that it had done similar mileage over the intervening 5 months, it had then clocked up a further 4000+ km; possible subsequent crash damage? Quite probably. 
• He had been using only the standard 2A charger with the Wheel, he has also confirmed it was not charging at the time it lit up. 
• His therapist is another first-hand eye-witness account who can corroborate what exactly happened at the time. I will be contacting both the therapist & the NY Fire Department to assist in the investigation.

At this moment, it's not clear what evidence is recoverable from the site. If one had to speculate into causation, then based on what we know from the V10F affair, if water does permeate into the cells, accelerated corrosion will cause a short between the electrodes, creating a runaway cell thermal chain reaction.

Understandably David is in a state of shock & is angry, replacing the Wheel is small beans; what is important to me, is that we have a clearer picture on causation, so a similar event does not happen again. As bad as the situation is, it might have been a whole lot worse!  

Wow. Sounds like that wheel went through hell. It doesn't take much to assume that the battery pack(s) may have suffered as well.

I imagine one take away for you is that any wheel that you receive in the future with similar wear-and-tear, you will not perform any work without replacing the battery packs. At least I wouldn't.

Based on my close inspection of a wheel (Yoshi's ACM) that burned, you or KingSong won't have much to look at even if you get the wheel back.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Marty Backe

[chulander]

14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

For my broken shoulder doctor and therapy sessions, I trolleyed my wheel into both offices and it rested against the wall with me as I saw the doctor. Isn't that what's particularly nice about our wheels? We con non intrusively take them anywhere we go.

Indeed Marty. I trolley into stores, offices and park the wheel next to my desk at work.

the convenience and confidence to accurately plan your travels (despite the traffic) is the appeal of the EUC lazy life.

The appeal is not without its cost tho. I just received the 100v Monster and preordered the 16x which brings my grant total to......4 wheels. 12 more and I can begin to understand your world Marty.

Edited May 10, 2019 by chulander
typo

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, chulander said:

Indeed Marty. I trolley into stores, offices and park the wheel next to my desk at work.

the convenience and confidence to accurately plan your travels (despite the traffic) is the appeal of the EUC lazy life.

The appeal is not without its cost tho. I just received the 100v Monster and preordered the 16x which brings my grant total to......4 wheels. 12 more and I can begin to understand your world Marty.

 You should be scared when you realize that there was a time that I only had 4 wheels. Indeed, I once only had one! Beware the little  that sits on your shoulder saying, "yes, yes, buy that one too".

I predict that you won't be bringing the Monster into the doctors office 

[TomOnWheels]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I better rush home because I charge all of my wheels as they are standing up and leaning against the wall 

If one wheel can burn a office building, can all your wheels together burn California ? :-o Just kidding, sorry, it was an easy one... :-)