Inmotion V13 Speculation

[yoos]

59 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Probably result in a logarithmic curve.

Not really, the consumption is most definitely a polynomial of speed. At high speed most of the drag causing consumption is air drag which is heavily dependent on the riders size, stance, clothing, accessories. Thus precise measurements are, again, not so useful. I concur with @conecones, no need to be obsessed with calculating range. If that's a factor of such importance to someone they really should carry a charger to avoid riding at low battery (which is dangerous and not fun). But we really are diverging here  

To bring all this back to the V13, it allows quite fast charging which is the proper way to solve the range problem until there is a battery breakthrough. 

[Paul A]

21 minutes ago, yoos said:

consumption is most definitely a polynomial of speed

Perhaps.

 

Could use an energy consumption calculator for cycling to determine the relationship.

Input speed values into calculator, determine energy consumption, plot the results on a graph.

Keep all other variables constant.

 

https://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/cycling.htm

 

[Freeforester]

..or wait a day or two longer for more data points, possibly from warmer climes, to possibly avoid ‘thermal runaway’ in the interim 

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

Ride at a constant speed of 20kph, for 10km, determine the battery % consumed.  Extrapolate to determine range, at that speed.

Doesn't work because the voltage of a LiIon battery falls off a cliff around 3V... it might be ok-enough to extrapolate if you assume that 'time to walk' is at 3.1V though. IMO, Wh/km is a useful generic number to guesstimate range vs speed, but only in a "you'll get half the range" sort of way. I wouldn't use it to plan a charge stop 5 miles further away!

[Steve Evans]

5 hours ago, conecones said:

I don't know anyone in our ride group that is this obsessed with calculating range. Most seem happy with a VERY rough estimate, and whether the wheel tends to be power hungry (EXN) or power conserving (18XL/V11). We all know going faster = drain battery faster. So now we see from tests V13 is on the power hungry side when pushed, which is completely unsurprising.

Most people who know they will drain their battery past 30% bring a charger. A lot of riders who like to ride fast bring the charger regardless. The range "issue" is gone once you ride with a charger.

Seems like the people ragging on the V13 range and doing some cost/WH/range value comparison with Begode is just looking for something to hate on. In real world use and especially group rides, chargers are always brought, and the rides are organized by battery size categories. Next year the Master Pro guys will be riding by themselves or waiting with the rest of the 2700-3600WH group. That's the penalty for having a battery bigger than everyone else 

i worry that as batteries in our wheels get larger, mid-ride charging becomes less feasible. quick charging is going to need a lot of amps (15amps for v13?) so either the chargers get huge and heavy or you need to carry multiple chargers. not to mention charging @15amps  will most likely require a 20 amp service and risking tripped circuit breakers - especially if you are sharing outlets with other riders.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Steve Evans

[Cerbera]

Ooh - it's Marty's first look at the V13...

https://youtu.be/QWBYVauvFMM

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Cerbera

[Punxatawneyjoe]

38 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Ooh - it's Marty's first look at the V13...

seems he had his mind made up before he opened the box imo. Did he even ride it?

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

seems he had his mind made up before he opened the box imo. Did he even ride it?

Yeah, keep watching  He doesn't ride in this video, but doesn't give it an easy time on the bench either.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

16 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

but doesn't give it an easy time on the bench either.

Yeah, he seems partial to his master tank. It will be interesting to see him ride it though since he's used to riding tanks. We will see. I have to be honest i'm not loving the feedback of this pre-ordered wheel.

[Cerbera]

57 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I have to be honest i'm not loving the feedback of this pre-ordered wheel.

I watch with interest - I know full well that wheel is too big and heavy for me, but it does seem a serious step up in overall quality so I remain keen to see how it does in the real world...

[techyiam]

Marty has posted his range test yesterday. 

Marty range test on the V13 Challenger

Marty does appear to me as having a Gotway/Begode bias. I think he likes the way these wheels ride, and the Begode performance edge. Ie. 134V.

However, I believe his opinion on the V13's suspension is fair.

After all, all Inmotion did was to give the first generation V11 suspension an update, whereas, LeaperKim and Begode really put in serious effort to raise the bar on the first generation suspension design.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by techyiam

[MrMonoWheel]

10 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Marty has posted his range test yesterday. 

Marty range test on the V13 Challenger

Damn, only 54 miles at 25mph. Seeing that drag increases exponentially with speed, I wonder how the range is at 40mph (cruising speed where I live).

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Damn, only 54 miles at 25mph. Seeing that drag increases exponentially with speed, I wonder how the range is at 40mph (cruising speed where I live).

I am still keeping an open mind, but I think the Master Pro gets disproportionate more range. There are just too many factors at play.

[KiwiMark]

Compare this wheel to my RS (C30), the V13 has: More speed, more power, suspension, better stability (22" wheel vs 19" wheel) and more range (86km vs 65km).  Going from 1,800Wh on my RS to ~3,000Wh on the V13 I would expect a bit better and maybe for me with my riding I would do better, but I would doubt that I could get 100km on this wheel.  Regardless of any disappointment on range, it is still more than I get on what I ride today (but less than the Sherman S I have on the way).

OK, not a range king like the Shermax, Sherman S or Master Pro (add in most 3,600Wh wheels). But I don't think this is actually bad range, just not great range.  Clearly if you want a wheel with great range you might not want to put down the money the V13 costs for this wheel.  This has never been advertised as a leader in long range EUCs, that isn't its strength.  I don't think people should criticize this wheel too harshly for not being great on something that it was never designed to be great on and never claimed to be great on.  You want great range?  Well, this wheel only offers decent range - for great range you should look at other wheels.

I still stand by what I've said earlier.  Once I get my V12HT and Sherman S and sell my RS, I'll have 2 wheels.  If I was offered any wheel I like to bring it up to 3 wheels then the V13 would likely be my choice for my 3rd wheel.  The Sherman S gives me the longer range for when I want that.  The V12HT gives me a smaller wheel that isn't crazy heavy.  The V13 would provide the very stable 22" wheel with impressive speed that could go up to 86km at a good fun speed (less range if faster, more range if slower - as any wheel does).  For a long ride where I want over 100km on a charge, I just wouldn't take the V13.  For a shorter ride where I want a big steady wheel there is nothing wrong with riding the V13.

Bottom line:  If you can only own one wheel and getting over 100km on a charge is very important to you, this might not be the right wheel to buy.  Luckily, other wheels exist.

[techyiam]

27 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

The V13 would provide the very stable 22" wheel with impressive speed that could go up to 86km at a good fun speed (less range if faster, more range if slower - as any wheel does). 

I am still waiting for reviewers to confirm that the V13 is more stable and planted than the Sherman-S.

Theoretically, it should be, but the proof is in the pudding.

[KiwiMark]

12 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I am still waiting for reviewers to confirm that the V13 is more stable and planted than the Sherman-S.

Theoretically, it should be, but the proof is in the pudding.

If it isn't then THAT would definitely be something to complain about.  IMO it is one of the main points in favour of a larger diameter wheel/tyre.  In fact it would most definitely be a deal-breaker for me.

[BKW]

My personal opinion so far for the V13 (my thoughts could change over time)...

Pros:  safety, IP rating, quality build (suspension is lower tier than SS), durable, 126 volts, motor power

Cons: price, less battery compared to relative EUCs, weight (depending who you are)

For some reason, I've been neglecting to think about the motor power at 4500 watts at 126 volts. This is a powerful euc! The strongest?

Edited December 29, 2022 by BKW

[KiwiMark]

27 minutes ago, BKW said:

For some reason, I've been neglecting to think about the motor power at 4500 watts at 126 volts. This is a powerful euc! The strongest?

The Master Pro also has a 4,500W motor.  On paper the Master Pro is the better wheel with more voltage and 4,800Wh of battery, but the specs only tell part of the story.

The V13 has Inmotion build quality and the Master Pro has Begode build quality - advantage V13.

The Master Pro has no rating for water resistance, the V13 has an IPX7 rating - advantage V13

The two wheels are clearly rivals and each has some advantages just as each has disadvantages.

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

the V13 has an IPX7 rating

Isn't that just for part of it (the battery?) or is it for the whole wheel? X7 requires submersion to 1 m for 30 minutes, which would be quite something for an entire wheel. One of the fun things about IPX7 is that you usually have issues with changes in air pressure... think Pelican cases and their pressure equalization valves (otherwise you can't get them open if you closed them at higher altitude and descended).

Edited December 29, 2022 by Tawpie

[Bizra6ot]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Damn, only 54 miles at 25mph. Seeing that drag increases exponentially with speed, I wonder how the range is at 40mph (cruising speed where I live).

Based on its low voltage tiltback being at 7% it must be closer to an Abrams/Exn than a Sherman og, so expect a little more than 30mi as on the Speedyfeet range test
On my Exn by cruising around this gps speed all the way which gives an average speed of 34mph i get ~34mi

[KiwiMark]

27 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Isn't that just for part of it (the battery?) 

Yeah, I think you are right.  I think it is IPX5 for the whole thing, this is still better than the Begode wheels though.

[MrMonoWheel]

I'm not buying the wheel regardless so I'm here just to see how this all turns out, but I have to agree with @KiwiMark. I have a v11 right now and just found out my Sherman S is arriving tomorrow instead of a week from now. If I had a reason to buy a third wheel it would definitely be the V13 over the master pro. The build quality and features are unparalleled, I just don't really know in what situation I'd ride it over the Sherman. However if rumors are true and inmotion is making a smaller cousin to the v13, I will definitely be replacing my v11 with whatever that is. 

[Forwardnbak]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I'm not buying the wheel regardless so I'm here just to see how this all turns out, but I have to agree with @KiwiMark. I have a v11 right now and just found out my Sherman S is arriving tomorrow instead of a week from now. If I had a reason to buy a third wheel it would definitely be the V13 over the master pro. The build quality and features are unparalleled, I just don't really know in what situation I'd ride it over the Sherman. However if rumors are true and inmotion is making a smaller cousin to the v13, I will definitely be replacing my v11 with whatever that is. 

i’ve been considering offloading the V11 once the 13 arrives. It is still such a valuable wheel to me and does so much i need atm. 

Like you though I would love to look at what IM has hidden away. 

Congrats and Good luck on the sherman S, looks like a bunch of fun! 

[novazeus]

it actually looks manageable in this video, not as big. but he says in the replies that he won't be taking this wheel offroad because it's not made for that. 

that lost me. that's what i was thinking the bigger diameter wheel at 100 plus pounds would be like. 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by novazeus

[Clem604]

5 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

i’ve been considering offloading the V11 once the 13 arrives. It is still such a valuable wheel to me and does so much i need atm. 

Like you though I would love to look at what IM has hidden away. 

Congrats and Good luck on the sherman S, looks like a bunch of fun! 

The V11 really is a great all around wheel now that I've had it for some time. I suspect I won't be riding it much ,if at all , when my Sherman S arrives but that doesn't take away from its "jack of all trades" nature. If the smaller V13 based wheel they are working on is an upgraded V11 in spirit then I think it will be a big hit for IM.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Clem604