Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Paul g]

55 minutes ago, Lets Do Science said:

Opened up the wheel, every single motor bolt sheared off. Wish me luck on the warranty repair fellas, this is going through my Alie shop too. 100% will need new motor 😑.

The Commander mini has an amazing innovation that I would like to see on other wheels so we don’t have these broken bolts anymore- that shoulder that goes inside the bore and takes all the force of the impact

Edited August 11, 2023 by Paul g

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, Lets Do Science said:

100% will need new motor

Are the cables to the motor twisted up or are they ok? Because you can probably drill/extract the studs from the axle.

[Paul g]

5 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Are the cables to the motor twisted up or are they ok? Because you can probably drill/extract the studs from the axle.

He might even be able to drill bigger holes, rethread those and use bigger bolts to fix the motor. 

Edit: but that depends on the “meat” left on the screwed pieces.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Paul g

[Punxatawneyjoe]

8 minutes ago, Paul g said:

He might even be able to drill bigger holes

The threads should be fine because it looks like they were loose by how many threads are still left on some of the bolts and the threads  themselves look ok, not stripped.

Cant re-thread that axle, there is no "meat" whatsoever left on the axle.

 

[Lets Do Science]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Well that sucks, looks like ali never changed the original bolts. Did you hit a speed bump at high speed or anything? 

Original bolts, this wheel was on the first shipment to the states. As for riding behavior, ~2k miles city riding only, no jumps or anything I do ride rather hard also the roads here might be the worst in America. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

20 minutes ago, Lets Do Science said:

Original bolts

As a matter of fact, i was given twice the amount of new bolts i needed when e-wheels sent me the replacements so if you can get the studs out and the wires aren't compromised, you can pm me with your address and id be happy to send you them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trailless]

On 8/10/2023 at 10:40 AM, Ethereal said:

I weigh 200 lbs. and I do set my psi at 210. I rarely do stairs but when I do I never bottom out. I also put a valve cap on before I place that orange cover back on. The valve cap does not interfere with the orange screw cover. My PSI has stayed constant and with no loss of air. 

If I have the psi set to around 180-190lbs it'll bottom out on this set of stairs, obviously more stairs than I'd normally do but a good set to test suspension. I have to have it at 200-210lbs for it not to bottom out. 

I'll have to get a set of those and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the recommendation. 

[trailless]

It definitely didn't like this drop though... I know I know, wrong wheel for this type of riding. Typically don't do this, I was just testing the suspension.

Edited August 12, 2023 by trailless

[eucVibes]

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

The battery's are Ipx7 and the shock tube was stripped out prior to hitting the curb, i saw the previous sledge hammer install action.that's why they popped out on the curb. But thanks for sharing.

[UPONIT]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:29 PM, Lets Do Science said:

Original bolts, this wheel was on the first shipment to the states. As for riding behavior, ~2k miles city riding only, no jumps or anything I do ride rather hard also the roads here might be the worst in America. 

Every single motor bolt shearing off seems like a HUMONGOUS force was applied across a relatively short time. I feel like "ride rather hard" contains and camouflages a LOT of relevant information needed to explain this event. Can you provide a little more detail about your "hard riding" and make a guess as to what/when/how/why this occurred?

I know you may not want to give details. I see the dilemma here. It would be nice to have InMotion provide a repair/solution, so it is natural to want to downplay the operator's role. And apparently InMotion HAS decided to take blame for the original bolts' weaknesses, which played some part.

So you may not want to say "Well, I did jump off a 2 story roof onto an electric fence right before the bolts mysteriously sheared off."

But... bolts don't spontaneously disintegrate. SOMETHING caused this to happen. Would that something have caused even the correct bolts to shear? Or were the bolts 100% at fault? 

Thanks for sharing the experience!

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, UPONIT said:

Every single motor bolt shearing off seems like a HUMONGOUS force was applied across a relatively short time. I feel like "ride rather hard" contains and camouflages a LOT of relevant information needed to explain this event. Can you provide a little more detail about your "hard riding" and make a guess as to what/when/how/why this occurred?

I know you may not want to give details. I see the dilemma here. It would be nice to have InMotion provide a repair/solution, so it is natural to want to downplay the operator's role. And apparently InMotion HAS decided to take blame for the original bolts' weaknesses, which played some part.

So you may not want to say "Well, I did jump off a 2 story roof onto an electric fence right before the bolts mysteriously sheared off."

But... bolts don't spontaneously disintegrate. SOMETHING caused this to happen. Would that something have caused even the correct bolts to shear? Or were the bolts 100% at fault? 

Thanks for sharing the experience!

My guess it's more a chain of events, one bolt comes a bit loose, applies more force to the other bolts and those also start to come loose, eventually there is so much stress on the bolts from being loose that they snap.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

14 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

My guess it's more a chain of events, one bolt comes a bit loose, applies more force to the other bolts and those also start to come loose, eventually there is so much stress on the bolts from being loose that they snap.

Not wanting to speak for @Lets Do Science, IMO i think this is more likely what happened. Although the original bolts were probably weaker than they should be. If you look at the picture he posted, some bolts have 4-5 threads still on them and some have 1-2.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:29 PM, trailless said:

, I was just testing the suspension.

I'm thinking you should have tested it with more PSI in them, if you were planning on big drops. The wheel alone is 118 lbs.

[trailless]

8 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I'm thinking you should have tested it with more PSI in them, if you were planning on big drops. The wheel alone is 118 lbs.

Possibly. That was with 200psi. I remember reading the max was 220psi, is that right? 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 hours ago, trailless said:

I remember reading the max was 220psi, is that right?

That's what its specked for , i heard of someone blowing it out at 300 psi jumping with it. You could probably get away with 230 but it's not really a jumping wheel and it rides super stiff at 200 and above. Im 195lbs and i have mine at 180 but im not doing stairs, i am going off road though.

[mrelwood]

15 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Every single motor bolt shearing off seems like a HUMONGOUS force was applied across a relatively short time.

…

But... bolts don't spontaneously disintegrate. SOMETHING caused this to happen.

I’m pretty sure it’s nothing more than perfectly healthy bolts getting loose, which then disturbs the balancing feedback loop causing the wheel to shake like was shown in the video. A 35kg chassis being shaken back and forth on loose bolts by a 10000W peak motor… Who wants to calculate the forces at play?

 I’ve seen the same happen on an old V8F a few times, though the axle construction is of course very different. But essentially the same issue.

 Inmotion didn’t apply a suitable or a suitable amount of thread locker (or tightening force?) for the first V13 batches, but I understood that to have been taken care of for the newer ones.

[trailless]

So I had something weird happen on a ride yesterday. I was riding around in the city, heavy torque and braking, while hitting speeds of 40+mph often. Then I was cruising at 45mph for about 2 miles then came to a gradual stop on a long downhill, battery was at 65%. Right before I fully stopped the wheel tilted back hard. It was at like a -10 degree tiltback and the error symbol was on the screen. I rolled it onto the sidewalk and then it went back to normal. The tiltback and error symbol lasted all of 5 seconds... I checked the app and it didn't store any error messages.

I rode another 10 miles while hitting speeds of 45mph with no issues. Any idea of what that was? 

[sWiFt]

47 minutes ago, trailless said:

Any idea of what that was? 

Do you use break assist? 

[trailless]

6 hours ago, sWiFt said:

Do you use break assist? 

Yeah, it was on 80%. I dialed it down to 60% and acceleration assist to 75%. 100% pedal 

 

Why, what do you think it might have been? 

[2disbetter]

It kind of sounds like a brake assist glitch. The software just glitched. This is Hot-lanta we are talking about right? Could also be a consequence of heat from the extended trip, etc. 

[mrelwood]

15 hours ago, trailless said:

Any idea of what that was? 

Sounds like a strange one. The first thing to ask in cases like this though is if you’re running the latest firmware?

[trailless]

6 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

It kind of sounds like a brake assist glitch. The software just glitched. This is Hot-lanta we are talking about right? Could also be a consequence of heat from the extended trip, etc. 

It was about high 80's and cloudy in the early evening, around 6:30pm. I hope it as just a glitch. I saw another video of someone's doing the same thing and it was the result of the batteries overheating. Hopefully that wasn't the case... I took it out for a 20 mile ride, stop and go city riding, with an average speed of 26mph yesterday. It was in the mid 90s and no issue. Hopefully a one time thing. 

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Sounds like a strange one. The first thing to ask in cases like this though is if you’re running the latest firmware?

It says it's running the latest firmware in the inmotion app. I'm used to begode just releasing new firmware every other week. So I'm still learning about inmotion. 

[2disbetter]

Yeah I think if you are staying at speeds around 26 mph, heat on the batteries shouldn't be too bad. But when you are pushing speeds like 40+ mph and aggressive stopping and going you are going to be moving a lot more current and that will cause heat. 

Still if the glitch was heat related then it is preventable. Good to know about for sure. 

Remember though, ambient temperature is one thing, but that humidity is the main issue. 

I remember in Florida it would say that it was 89 but with the humidity the heat index was usually 110 or higher. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by 2disbetter

[trailless]

11 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

Yeah I think if you are staying at speeds around 26 mph, heat on the batteries shouldn't be too bad. But when you are pushing speeds like 40+ mph and aggressive stopping and going you are going to be moving a lot more current and that will cause heat. 

Still if the glitch was heat related then it is preventable. Good to know about for sure. 

Remember though, ambient temperature is one thing, but that humidity is the main issue. 

I remember in Florida it would say that it was 89 but with the humidity the heat index was usually 110 or higher. 

Yesterday I was riding more aggressively than the day before when I got the error, and it was hotter yesterday. The average riding speed of 26mph is what was calculated by the wheel. I ride in a very urban environment, downtown/midtown Atlanta, with a lot of traffic and stop lights. It's a lot of of stop and go riding, can't cruise for miles at a time... I hit a top speed of 48mph and was cruising at 40mph+ whenever I could.