INMOTION V12

[Eno Efil]

A historical question to the experienced EUC owners in the forum.

Generally what types of improvements small/large does Inmotion make to their EUC’s between batches?

I expect it takes a significant amount of engineering and industrialisation efforts/time/cost to make incremental updates between batches and I was wondering if Inmotion would make these investments or just move on and focus on the next wheel.  

Specifically I'm focusing on the V12. We know the Mosfets are being fixed (potentially in two iterations quick fix > permanent fix).

 

My question is, aside from the Mosfets could we expect Inmotion to fix/improve some of the other existing complaints e.g:

1. Improve wobble tendency of the V12?

2. Improve the weak breaking? (better with latest firmware)

3. Lighten the shell tinting to improve brake light and RGB light penetration?

4. Stronger Rims?

Or should we expect Inmotion to deliver the same product with just the Mosfets updated in batch 3, batch 4.... 2023 etc?

Edited May 3, 2022 by Eno Efil

[Rawnei]

24 minutes ago, Eno Efil said:

A historical question to the experienced EUC owners in the forum.

Generally what types of improvements small/large does Inmotion make to their EUC’s between batches?

I expect it takes a significant amount of engineering and industrialisation efforts/time/cost to make incremental updates between batches and I was wondering if Inmotion would make these investments or just move on and focus on the next wheel.  

Specifically I'm focusing on the V12. We know the Mosfets are being fixed (potentially in two iterations quick fix > permanent fix).

 

My question is, aside from the Mosfets could we expect Inmotion to fix/improve some of the other existing complaints e.g:

1. Improve wobble tendency of the V12?

2. Improve the weak breaking? (better with latest firmware)

3. Lighten the shell tinting to improve break light and RGB light penetration?

Or should we expect Inmotion to deliver the same product with just the Mosfets updated in batch 3, batch 4.... 2023 etc?

Inmotion like the other brands fixes either small or critical flaws, weak screws, bearing problems etc. mosfets is somewhat of an exception as it's a critical fault in their original design.

1) Wobbles is because of rider, more experience and it goes away, it's not something that can be engineer away

2) Again braking is all rider, change foot position, install power pads or change existing pad position, playing around with pedal modes settings in firmware could potentially help as well

3) Probably not going to be changed at this point

[techyiam]

13 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

1) Wobbles is because of rider, more experience and it goes away, it's not something that can be engineer away

If you have much experience on a V12, do you get bad wobbles when breaking hard from speeds of 50+ km/h? If not, what was the pedal sensitivity setting, split mode settings, firmware version, and tire pressure? 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

If you have much experience on a V12, do you get bad wobbles when breaking hard from speeds of 50+ km/h? If not, what was the pedal sensitivity setting, split mode settings, firmware version, and tire pressure? 

Almost everyone seems to get bad wobbles when hard braking at high speeds, until they learn a braking technique that decreases the issue. Wheel settings have very little effect, but they can change how comfortable and secure the rider feels, which has a direct link with wobbles. So you are best off taking the time required to find the best settings for you and your riding style.

[Steve Evans]

WHEN ARE WE GETTING OUR NEW DRIVER BOARDS???!!!!!

Sorry, just had to vent. **sigh**

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by evans036

[Silverfish]

I wasn't going to use mine much until the replacements came. But now that I finally learned to ride decently it that has proven difficult. Its just too fun. And I am a big ol' coward who puts along at 15 mph on average anyway. So maybe I won't even stress my wheel enough to brick it.  

[Richardo]

29 minutes ago, Silverfish said:

I wasn't going to use mine much until the replacements came. But now that I finally learned to ride decently it that has proven difficult. Its just too fun. And I am a big ol' coward who puts along at 15 mph on average anyway. So maybe I won't even stress my wheel enough to brick it.  

Don’t forget – more than half of the blown MOSFETs happened either from a cold start or at walking speed!

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, evans036 said:

WHEN ARE WE GETTING OUR NEW DRIVER BOARDS???!!!!!

Sorry, just had to vent. **sigh**

 

I feel Exactly the same frustration. Seeing that hundreds of new v12's are being shipped out with new boards this week for new customers.  At the same time not even getting any sort of confirmation of New Boards for the first buyers is depressing. I remember being considered a "fan" because of being an early adopter by inmotion. Was supposed to get a "gift" that never showed up, and now new boards to fix a flaw in their design which i really hope will eventually show up. Hopefully before i faceplant.. 

(i know, i know.. don't ride the wheel, or risk injury)easier said than done, when you paid for this thing so long ago. 

[Steve Evans]

55 minutes ago, Silverfish said:

I wasn't going to use mine much until the replacements came. But now that I finally learned to ride decently it that has proven difficult. Its just too fun. And I am a big ol' coward who puts along at 15 mph on average anyway. So maybe I won't even stress my wheel enough to brick it.  

same here... every time i put my gear on and hop on that wheel i have a mini panic attack. doesnt stop me from riding though. its really the only wheel i have (v8 does not count). that wheel is just too much fun to not ride. label me reckless 

[Silverfish]

1 hour ago, Richardo said:

Don’t forget – more than half of the blown MOSFETs happened either from a cold start or at walking speed!

I'm ok with that. I still have to abort some of my starts anyway. If its going to fail, that is a good time for me. Walking speed also doesn't scare me. Better that than at a blazing 15 mph.

 

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I feel Exactly the same frustration. Seeing that hundreds of new v12's are being shipped out with new boards this week for new customers. 

ok, that is rage inducing. 

[jimjam.nyc]

11 minutes ago, Silverfish said:

 

 

ok, that is rage inducing. 

I get it they need to keep making money so they have to keep selling. I just wish we had some sort of confirmation other than word of mouth as of right now. 

Ewheels assures me everyone will get replacement boards, I do trust them. Just wish we had a clue when.. 

My wheel is so far fine and I am still enjoying it, so it's not too bad other than the anxiety of riding it. 

I guess this is the way it goes for lately for any of the new wheels so far.

[EUC Phenomenon]

Replacement boards should of been a priority but it seems Inmotion thought profits are more important than our safety. Is it possible there will be a much longer wait because of the lockdowns in Beijing and Shanghai.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Tel01

[Nick McCutcheon]

Trust me, dealers are just as frustrated as you guys. We are asking for tracking every day, as we've been assured "they're being sent", but we have yet to receive much of anything concrete. We want nothing more than for V12 riders to be able to ride safely, but the onus is currently still on IM. I would be pissed if I was a V12 owner! 

Admittedly I can't imagine it's easy for them, with battery shortages, chip shortages, and holiday shutdowns all preventing progress. However, the least they could do is be realistic with us, and err on the side of under promising and over delivering (or just regularly delivering) rather than over promising and under delivering. 

[supercurio]

From what I gathered, Inmotion were supposed to have received all the V12 replacement controllers at a set date from their supplier (the initial timeline communicated), and that did not happen due to lockdowns.
It looks like their plan will be to send a few here and there if they get small quantities instead.

[techyiam]

On 5/3/2022 at 1:24 PM, mrelwood said:

Almost everyone seems to get bad wobbles when hard braking at high speeds, until they learn a braking technique that decreases the issue. Wheel settings have very little effect, but they can change how comfortable and secure the rider feels, which has a direct link with wobbles. So you are best off taking the time required to find the best settings for you and your riding style.

The underlying focus of my question was really only Inmotion V12 related.

I asked @Rawnei this question because his profile listed a V12 (GF).

 

The following could be of interest to V12 owners or riders.

First  a shout out to @jimjam.nyc, since it was his tip that I acted on. 

On 3/17/2022 at 8:19 AM, jimjam.nyc said:

surprised nobody mentioned softening up the braking in split ride modes. I was able to relieve some unwanted braking wobbles by softening up the braking with the split ride modes.. 

Obviously also by learning the wheel a little better as many have stated in this thread, but i found the split ride modes to be pretty helpful as well to help dial back some of the wobbles.

For me, things were a little bit more complicated because my V12 has firmware version 1.5.4, and things don't work as expected. However, after much fiddling, all firmware related, I got even better results. I don't get the death wobble, bad wobbles, nor any wobbles at all. On top of that, braking sensitivity improved dramatically, beating out my T3. Note that no power pads were used on either the T3 or the V12.

My reason for asking the question was two fold. Firstly, I wanted to know whether other V12 owners were also able dial out wobbles (and if yes, what did they do?), and secondly, for those who don't know already, to let them know that firmware settings on the V12 can indeed reduce wobbles, in my case, it was a night and day difference.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by techyiam

[jimjam.nyc]

30 minutes ago, supercurio said:

From what I gathered, Inmotion were supposed to have received all the V12 replacement controllers at a set date from their supplier (the initial timeline communicated), and that did not happen due to lockdowns.
It looks like their plan will be to send a few here and there if they get small quantities instead.

I appreciate all of the information you are passing to us over here.. It really has been very helpful through this whole thing. 

But i do have to say and this is def. not a reflection on you at all.. It is getting annoying that distributors and IM are speaking through other people instead of talking to their customers. In Ewheels defense they do answer all of my emails when i Inquire in which is amazing. But with this issue being open for so long and the first and second round buyers being as patient as they are, we shouldn't have to keep asking.. There should be some sort of regular standard communication out to customers. Weather that be through our distributors.. Or IM directly. It is the bare minimum requirement for a situation like this where people paid a few K for a product, that literally is not safe to use. 

It really is a bit of a shame considering the wheel is really great otherwise. I know IM is going to do the right thing by us in the end. I just cant get behind the lack of communication around it. It is not hard to post something in your user channels to get word out about lockdowns and delays, to keep people informed. 

I know it sucks to have to tell people, "we know we told you april.. but we only have X amount now so you are out of luck until further notice.." (also enjoy watching those get brand new v12's with the issues fixed bragging). 

But its better than silence and people having to keep asking. you have to let the cat out of the bag anyway.

 

 

[Rawnei]

37 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I asked @Rawnei this question because his profile listed a V12 (GF).

We try to avoid riding the V12 or the few times we do we don't push it hard, until the new drive board is here.

[techyiam]

20 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

We try to avoid riding the V12 or the few times we do we don't push it hard, until the new drive board is here.

I see. Makes perfect sense. Thank you for your responses. 

[supercurio]

37 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I appreciate all of the information you are passing to us over here.. It really has been very helpful through this whole thing. 

But i do have to say and this is def. not a reflection on you at all.. It is getting annoying that distributors and IM are speaking through other people instead of talking to their customers. In Ewheels defense they do answer all of my emails when i Inquire in which is amazing. But with this issue being open for so long and the first and second round buyers being as patient as they are, we shouldn't have to keep asking.. There should be some sort of regular standard communication out to customers. Weather that be through our distributors.. Or IM directly. It is the bare minimum requirement for a situation like this where people paid a few K for a product, that literally is not safe to use. 

It really is a bit of a shame considering the wheel is really great otherwise. I know IM is going to do the right thing by us in the end. I just cant get behind the lack of communication around it. It is not hard to post something in your user channels to get word out about lockdowns and delays, to keep people informed. 

I know it sucks to have to tell people, "we know we told you april.. but we only have X amount now so you are out of luck until further notice.." (also enjoy watching those get brand new v12's with the issues fixed bragging). 

But its better than silence and people having to keep asking. you have to let the cat out of the bag anyway.

I do what I can!

Agree with you, I notice that too. Currently it feels like it is very difficult for OEMs to communicate publicly about things that are not going well: issues, delays and so on. Unless it is within a conversation from person to person where there is some trust involved, some understanding of each other's point of view, a non-judgmental communication.

It's my theory and I could be wrong, but it seems more similar to people talking about challenges in their life than something more organized or corporate communication.

For now, it looks like EUCO's page is the best in the business: https://www.euco.us/pages/preorders, but a general status page with updates about events, planned deadlines, milestones could be useful.

I hope to invite OEM to talk on the EUC #tech podcast also, if that works maybe that'll help.

[Steve Evans]

do we know yet if the new replacement driver boards will have the same mosfets as in the v12HT? if yes, then would that mean we would also need a new heat sink?

thanks,

steve

 

[Paradox]

9 minutes ago, evans036 said:

do we know yet if the new replacement driver boards will have the same mosfets as in the v12HT? if yes, then would that mean we would also need a new heat sink?

Don't know anything but this was posted on Telegram.

[Richardo]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

 

But i do have to say and this is def. not a reflection on you at all.. It is getting annoying that distributors and IM are speaking through other people instead of talking to their customers. In Ewheels defense they do answer all of my emails when i Inquire in which is amazing.

 

This is overall a good point but i think there are some aspects to consider further. 
 

first, the point of splitting the supply chain so the manufacturer sells to retailers, and retailers sell to consumers is to release the manufacturer from the burden of communicating with and offering support to customers. 
 

That places a potentially unwritten obligation on retailers to do the comms to us, and to be a middle man between the mfrs. Thats a difficult job- and not exactly something you can do in your free time! The retailer has to keep both parties happy, which requires intense, clear communication and establishing firm expectations between both parties so neither feels abused.
 

As someone who doesnt work in the industry, but is responsible for a lot of communication at work, i think a more mature version of this would look like ewheels maintaining a blog, along with several rss feeds/mailing lists, and posting updates there as they came in. That way they could communicate to everyone who bought an early v12 at once, without the current circuitous route of someone emailing them a question and posting the response on the forum. 
 

id love to do that job if they included a stipend for mandrin classes and i could expense translators while i learned =D

[Rawnei]

That's the thing though, in some cases the only reason we see any communication at all it's because some individuals reach out and try to get info from the manufacturer through contacts, it's very rare for official representative to any of the manufactures to communicate anything that's not pure marketing stuff. It's very unfortunate and without community and reseller efforts we would not get much info at all.

[Shane Dougherty]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

The underlying focus of my question was really only Inmotion V12 related.

I asked @Rawnei this question because his profile listed a V12 (GF).

 

The following could be of interest to V12 owners or riders.

First  a shout out to @jimjam.nyc, since it was his tip that I acted on. 

For me, things were a little bit more complicated because my V12 has firmware version 1.5.4, and things don't work as expected. However, after much fiddling, all firmware related, I got even better results. I don't get the death wobble, bad wobbles, nor any wobbles at all. On top of that, braking sensitivity improved dramatically, beating out my T3. Note that no power pads were used on either the T3 or the V12.

My reason for asking the question was two fold. Firstly, I wanted to know whether other V12 owners were also able dial out wobbles (and if yes, what did they do?), and secondly, for those who don't know already, to let them know that firmware settings on the V12 can indeed reduce wobbles, in my case, it was a night and day difference.

 

 

 

 

Please share the settings that worked for you. 

[techyiam]

Which version of firmware is on your V12? 

Are you using power/braking pads?

When you are braking moderately hard, and hard at 50 km/h, how bad is your wobbles? 

What are your settings for pedal height adjustment, the pedal sensitivity setting, split mode settings, and tire pressure?

What have you tried so far in settings to reduce wobbles?

Edited May 5, 2022 by techyiam