What does good euc/pev regulation look like? More productive than "gonna get us banned"

[GPW]

There is apparently a lot of energy spent on this forum worrying about being “banned”. These concerns are understandable given rules that already exist in some regions and the still early stage of adoption. Even so, my own take is that conversation is a bit too binary – either “banned” vs the grey area status quo persists – when the most likely eventual outcome in most regions is likely more regulation that does not include a “ban”. The key uncertainty is whether is whether such future regulation is reasonable and appropriate, or excessively restrictive. Done the right way, it could very well be mostly positive for most people. Done the wrong way, well clearly most on this forum would be unhappy and in my view it would be an unfortunate limit on progress.   

Along those lines, I thought I would pose some questions to this forum:

• What does "good" euc/pev regulation look like? (I have some high level thoughts below on what "good" might mean, but this is clearly open for debate)
• Are there infrastructure or technology solutions needed to make it work?  
• Are there ways to give authorities confidence that reasonable rules can be practically enforced, so as to prevent excessive but enforceable rules?
• What hurdles or requirements are reasonable or necessary? For what venue or device? (e.g. licensing, insurance, device registration)
• Can EUCs/PEVs reasonably be grouped with any current device classifications and the rules that apply to them? (e.g. follow bike rules, or follow moped rules).  

It goes without saying that we would all prefer everyone always just acted responsibly. I also understand that the status quo is comfortable for many or even most. For the sake of discussion, let’s just assume that everyone acting responsibly is simply not a realistic expectation and that some additional regulation is inevitable in one form or another.  

Some high level personal philosophical views on regulation (that others may disagree with), for the sake of conversation and maybe to help frame some likely discussion:

• Good regulation should be targeted as narrowly as possible to specifically address valid public concerns or issues. Broad rules that restrict reasonable behavior as a shortcut to target narrow problems are stupid (sorry, am lacking a better term). Maybe an example of what I trying to say – car drivers are fined for driving at unsafe speeds, with speed limits set set according to venue, but we don’t cap car engine power or allowable car top speed to prevent drivers from unsafe speeds.
• The priority in any good regulation should be preventing bad behavior that risks the safety of others, while giving individuals fairly broad freedom to make choices relative to their own personal risk.
• Good regulation should not disproportionately and unfairly affect any particular segment of the population. (e.g. any rules that are in practice a monetary barrier)  
• Designing rules around specific device classifications is going to be increasingly cumbersome and likely limits innovation. Better rules should probably focus on defining safe behavior based on the venue of use (e.g. rules defining safe conduct street vs bikelane etc). Though suspect some basic level of classification is unavoidable.     
• The biggest risk in future regulation is the perceived inability of authorities to practically enforce reasonable rules, potentially leading to excessive but enforceable rules.

I have no specific agenda here. Interested in the thought experiment, and see it as more productive than many of the "gonna get us banned" threads. Thoughts?

Edited June 12, 2021 by GPW
typos

[Scottie888]

Best regs is NO REGS. Baring that, I think we all have our own views on it. I'm sure some will advocate for fast(er) speeds & mor (mor mor) power while others won't. 

In my jurisdiction, there is no EUC specific regs. There's 'power assisted bicycles' with a 32kph limit & same rights as normal leg assist bikes. & then there's the prohibited class of which escooters are grouped. Prohibited as in illegal in sidewalks, streets & basically everywhere except private property.

Personally I'd rather not poke the hornet's nest. I can't see anything good coming outta it. Even if we get classified as bikes for the streets, we still have to deal with multi ton wrecking balls called automobiles which IMO is a far worse consequence than any regs.

For now, the cops see me & usually smile as I give 'em a 👋 as legally, I'm in no man's land. I like to keep it that way.

[GPW]

1 minute ago, Scottie888 said:

Best regs is NO REGS. Baring that, I think we all have our own views on it. I'm sure some will advocate for fast(er) speeds & mor (mor mor) power while others won't. 

In my jurisdiction, there is no EUC specific regs. There's 'power assisted bicycles' with a 32kph limit & same rights as normal leg assist bikes. & then there's the prohibited class of which escooters are grouped. Prohibited as in illegal in sidewalks, streets & basically everywhere except private property.

Personally I'd rather not poke the hornet's nest. I can't see anything good coming outta it. Even if we get classified as bikes for the streets, we still have to deal with multi ton wrecking balls called automobiles which IMO is a far worse consequence than any regs.

For now, the cops see me & usually smile as I give 'em a 👋 as legally, I'm in no man's land. I like to keep it that way.

I see where you are coming from. Frankly, I basically have the same preference. But emphasis on preference.......don't think its a realistic expectation that the status quo holds as adoption rises - though not forecasting any timelines here at all. Right now, people see videos of bad behavior, and get angry both because they see something unsafe AND because they fear it will change their status quo for the worse. I understand that sort of response,  but don't see that ultimately being any sort of long-term solution.

To be clear, I have no interest in advocating for regulation. I just think its worthwhile thinking through what actually makes sense. If we can't articulate what might actually make sense on our own, then I would be a bit more pessimistic about the future.  

[GoGeorgeGo]

In my eyes, they are at this point on par with motorcycles. Should require registration, special liscensing, possible inspections, and depending on location excise tax and insurance coverage.

Obviously for many that is worst case scenario, but i dont see why devices traveling 50 mph in the road should have any exemptions just because they have 1 wheel.

I think we could probably get away with just registration, and insurance coverage if we where proactive and could show that the machines are safe enough and easy to operate.

But i really dont see how we can avoid registration for to long. Officers need a way to identify you for traffic violations

[Scottie888]

8 minutes ago, GPW said:

Right now, people see videos of bad behavior, and get angry both because they see something unsafe AND because they fear it will change their status quo for the worse. I understand that sort of response,  but don't see that ultimately being any sort of long-term solution.

Right now, I see a few vids of a somewhat questionable (ok maybe dumbass) behavior. I also see thousands of vids on deadly auto & bikes (ie superbikes) doing street racing, burnouts, wheelies & other insane behavior. It is what it is. Honestly, why are we worrying about his. EUCs can't be more than 1% (far far far less IMO) of bikes & I can't see wheels making any great indent for the foreseeable.

5 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

but i dont see why devices traveling 50 mph in the road should have any exemptions just because they have 1 wheel

I get that but for the record, escooters also do 50mph & some do 80!😳 In my jurisdiction, escoots are outlawed...regardless of speed ratings. & escoots have real brakes, handlebars & all plus they are much easier to hop on & IMO, likely safer - all things being equal. So top speed can't be the only criteria.

So I ain't going there. Far's I'm concerned, EUCs are recreational machines in the same vein as quads, dirtbikes & such. For those who really need to use a PEV as real transportation, there options. Legal options. Ebikes are just as valid & soon, there's real ebikes (as in electric motorcycles & fairly inexpensive too boot). For those into regs, regies, insurance & taxes, you got options.

Just don't turn my hobby into that. IMO ofcos & as always, YMMV

[GPW]

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

In my eyes, they are at this point on par with motorcycles. Should require registration, special liscensing, possible inspections, and depending on location excise tax and insurance coverage.

Obviously for many that is worst case scenario, but i dont see why devices traveling 50 mph in the road should have any exemptions just because they have 1 wheel.

I think we could probably get away with just registration, and insurance coverage if we where proactive and could show that the machines are safe enough and easy to operate.

But i really dont see how we can avoid registration for to long. Officers need a way to identify you for traffic violations

Not sure I want EUC grouped with motorcycles for a whole bunch of reasons, but mostly because EUCs can be operated safely in a lot of venues that motorcycles cannot (e.g. bike lanes). But kinda agree that registration or something like it may be inevitable. Seems like a lot of the rules needed are basically already in place (basic traffic laws). The risk is that the normal rules are currently unenforceable absent something like registration, and that leads to something worse than registration (bans being the extreme). I don't like the thought of registration and would not make me happy, but makes more sense than a ban resulting from basic traffic laws being unenforceable absent registration. Also preferable to device speed caps.  

Edited June 13, 2021 by GPW

[GPW]

For what its worth, while EUCs are not currently the focus of discussion in NYC, there is a very related debate in NYC for registration/licensing that applies to bikes, ebikes, and scooters. Doesn't look like there is support for such proposals to pass, but worth noting the debate is real. 

Kathryn Garcia Slips on Marcia Kramer’s Bike-Licensing Banana Peel

E-Bikes Shouldn’t Ride in the Bike Lane, Community Board Committee Says

Curbed - Helmet Laws Are Not What New York City Cyclists Need Right Now

With Injuries Piling Up Across New York City, Mayor De Blasio Is Considering Bicycles Being Required To Have License Plates

 

[winterwheel]

Great topic.

My pet issue is there ought to be a weight limit on any vehicle riding in paths shared with pedestrians. We have full blown electric motorcycles riding in bike lanes here under the guise of being electric bicycles. 50kg or 100 lbs is a nice round number that would work to keep eucs, real electric bicycles,  and other PEV variants in and the motorcycles out. This poses a problem for some electric wheelchairs though, not sure how to address that, except to say that those are required to ride at wheelchair speeds and, you know, actually be wheelchairs.

Sidewalks should be legal to ride on for bicycles and PEV's alike, but only up to a pedestrian-friendly speed limit, 10-15km. The reality is that everyone has to hit the sidewalks now and then. Laws should recognize this and specify reasonable, pedestrian-friendly limits instead of banning this entirely.

For me this is a street vehicle, not something to be sharing paths with pedestrians.

Edited June 13, 2021 by winterwheel

[Roadpower]

@GPW I like your general philosophy on the topic and I think you're on the right track. Attack dangerous behavior, not the vehicle.

[Unventor]

Now I understand that this is a foreign concept in the US. 

But like the OP stated I rather have useful rules than no rules at all. 

There are several reasons for this. But foremost I don't want at total wide ban to happen Also I rather have a useful option for speed that a speed so low it is pointless. 

So to take away those that can't behave normal in traffic I am all for a license and insurance. It could be that no licence your top speed would be a moped (30kmh)class 1. With licence you could go 45kmh (called EU moped or class 2). To take a licence is a demonstration of your skills that you can ride safely. So someone do stupid things in road traffic. 

Benafit by this is it will mean we are accepted by law in traffic. And that there would be a market to buy insurance for when you are in traffic. This should be by person and not pr wheel. As you can only ride one pev at a time anyway. 

It also give a level of security that you don't have a huge bill on your neck because you had an accident that damaged others property or health as the insurance will cover this. 

Yes this is not free but it would make me more comfortable riding and also make me buy mew wheel in the future. 

Unfortunately I think ee will see a ban partly due to bad traffic behavior. Or battery fires.

Also I like to have a mandatory maintenance check up. This could make quality to go up and we might see more riders with EUCs. 

And yes I know this is a very different view than what most have in the US. But I still think this is the right way forward. 

I don't want to loose my pev and how I can ride it because some idiots do rouge street racing. 

Now the race Kuji was participating in France I love that idea. As long it is given green light from city/police. 

In many places here in Europe we have bike lanes. And I am fine riding these or 50kmh top speed roads. If I were to go faster I would take the car. I don't think an EUC is suited to go faster than 50Kmh. Main reason is a lost wheel tumbling down the road at 50kmh+ is dangerous for anyone that it hits. 

[winterwheel]

Interesting reads in those articles. Similar to NYC, my city has adopted the goal of zero deaths from cars colliding with pedestrians. But... the approach here has been to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 40kmh throughout the city, and down to 30kmh past playgrounds and whatnot from 7am to 11pm. Major traffic routes continue to have the same limits as before. The consequence of this is that I have no problem at all keeping up with traffic now. It made our lives as EUC riders quite a bit easier actually, and quite a bit safer too I suppose.

study after study has proven that adding more requirements (to bikes and whatnot) deters biking and scooting and, in fact, ends up making streets less safe by nudging people into cars instead.

Words to live by... it'd be good to know where to find those studies, maybe even post links to them somewhere in here.

Edited June 13, 2021 by winterwheel

[GPW]

4 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Interesting reads in those articles. Similar to NYC, my city has adopted the goal of zero deaths from cars colliding with pedestrians. But... the approach here has been to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 40kmh throughout the city, and down to 30kmh past playgrounds and whatnot from 7am to 11pm. Major traffic routes continue to have the same limits as before. The consequence of this is that I have no problem at all keeping up with traffic now. It made our lives as EUC riders quite a bit easier actually, and quite a bit safer too I suppose.

Back in 2014 NYC lowered the speed limit for cars on most roads to 25mph from 30mph. Sounds similar.

[Rawnei]

Do we really need to regulate EUC's specifically though? Speed limits and traffic rules apply to all vehicles on all type of roads regardless if it's a car, bicycle or PEV, some roads like the highway have rules what type of vehicles are allowed to travel on them and PEV's are definitely not allowed there.

So there's really two issues I see, one is drivers (all type of vehicles) and pedestrians knowingly breaking those rules and two drivers not even aware of the rules (which is everyones responsibility to know if you are on a public road).

So maybe stricter policing of those rules would lead to less people breaking them? My impression from here in Stockholm Sweden is that if you adhere to the rules, don't go massively over the speed limit, don't ignore traffic lights and so on law enforcement will not interfere but if you start blatantly ignoring the rules you will be stopped regardless of what vehicle you are driving, EUC's is not a target in general even if they are in a gray zone it's more a behavioral thing who they stop, a lot of legal rental scooters that do 25kmh max are stopped because they ignore traffic lights, and law enforcement is not stupid if they spot trends over time (like a bunch of people doing wild things on EUC's or street races with motorcycles for example) then they are going to target those things.

Maybe the traffic situation in NYC has just gone too far with nobody giving two shits about the rules that already exist, even pedestrians are gambling with their lives because it's been normalized, law enforcement just don't have the resources to handle all those traffic violations which seems like "the police don't care" maybe it's a hopeless situation for everyone which leads to an endless loop of "Nobody cares".

[GPW]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Do we really need to regulate EUC's specifically though? Speed limits and traffic rules apply to all vehicles on all type of roads regardless if it's a car, bicycle or PEV, some roads like the highway have rules what type of vehicles are allowed to travel on them and PEV's are definitely not allowed there.

I think there are a few things here. While I am not interested in more regulation, I do fear more regulation may be inevitable over some time horizon as adoption grows. I suspect that if people felt their own region's regulatory environment was stable, you would not get reactions saying some behavior is "going to get us banned". You might get reactions of concern for sure, but people would not worry about behavior in one region changing the rules for them in their own region. For instance, dangerous motorcycle, car, or bicycle activity may draw concern, but nobody would voice concern that any unsafe behavior for those vehicles will get any of those vehicles banned. 

I think the second question is if EUCs and pevs fit into current regulation given that typically forces them into regulation intended either for bikes, mopeds, motorcycles, or cars. EUCs I think are unique in that they can be operated safely in a surprisingly wide variety scenarios (e.g. bike lanes, many roads, and in some locations maybe sidewalks). This means that some of those rules based around other vehicles may or may not fit, or the issue may be EUCs spanning categories and the system not really knowing what to do with that. In many places its easiest for people to say the PEVs should just be treated like bikes and follow bike laws. This breaks down when speed caps are set at bike speeds and people don't think that makes sense.

I do think the enforcement debate is deeply intertwined with the regulatory debate. They go hand in hand. I am not and was not intending this broader topic to be New York focused, but for some things it is my only reference point. EUCs are too new to have been a focus, but for bikes and ebikes the issue of enforcement has been very complicated. My understanding is that there have been waves of more enforcement and waves of less enforcement, and concerns on both sides of the swing back and forth. To give a sense for both the oscillations in enforcement and the complications that go with them, easier to share a variety of articles that might apply based on a quick google search:

E-bikes and E-scooters Are Officially Legal in New York City - 2020

The NYPD's Crusade Against Cyclists - 2019

NYPD Bike Blitz Cheat Sheet Tells Cops to Enforce Bogus Traffic Laws – 2011

In Cyclist Crackdown, Cops Told To Enforce Laws That Don't Apply In NYC – 2011

Riding dirt bikes and ATVs on NYC roadways and sidewalks is illegal

De Blasio Says E-Bike Crackdown Is Based On Something 'Better Than Data. It Is Common Sense' - 2020

'It's persecution': New York City delivery workers fight electric bike ban - 2019

SMALL VICTORY? NYPD Says It Has Changed E-Bike Crackdown to Focus on ‘Unsafe’ Riding – 2020

Damn Lies and Statistics: The Numbers Don’t Back Up de Blasio’s Reason for E-Bike Crackdown – 2019

Save cyclists lives: enforce the laws, don’t weaken them - 2019

 

[winterwheel]

Any sensible legislation, should reflect the fact that EUC are very different from top to bottom. An MTen3 should be fine to ride in a shopping mall, but not on the road with cars. A monster pro should be fine on the road with cars, but should not be allowed in a shopping mall.

Regulating based on device characteristics such as battery size doesn't work at all. Big people need big wheels, and it would be discriminatory and unsafe to have laws based on battery size.

We have laws here already that regulate bicycles based on wheel diameter, bikes with wheel diameter under a certain size are allowed to ride on sidewalks.  That might a reasonable and easily enforceable way feasible way to decide which wheels are allowed into what domains.

[LanghamP]

One could ban all personal safety protection while riding an EUC. This would have the effect of evenly spreading the risk of a crash among all parties. Almost without exception, very fast EUC riders wear superbike levels of protection; if there's a collision with pedestrian or a bicyclist you can be sure the EUC rider won't get hurt.

[Scottie888]

14 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

 Almost without exception, very fast EUC riders wear superbike levels of protection; if there's a collision with pedestrian or a bicyclist you can be sure the EUC rider won't get hurt.

Have you watch some of the older vids on EUCs ie. a year or 2 ago? Alot of the riders (influencers at that) ride with no protection, not even sk8 helmets. In the streets of NY & sometimes at topspeed.

But amazingly, I haven't heard much if any of EUC related pedestrian injuries. So there's that

[The Brahan Seer]

This is how EUC's are legal in the state of Queensland, Australia... Link below..

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/wheeled-devices/personal-mobility-devices

Rules for personal mobility devices

A broad range of personal mobility devices or rideables can be used in public spaces and road related areas in Queensland. You must comply with the road rules to use them.

Remember, people of all abilities use our paths and not everyone can easily move around a device that is obstructing free movement.

Rideables

A rideable in Queensland must:

• be designed for use by a single person only
• fit the following dimensions:
  • 1,250mm in length by 700mm in width by 1,350mm in height
    or
  • 700mm in length by 1,250mm in width by 1,350mm in height
• have a maximum speed of 25km/h
• have a maximum weight of 60kg—when not carrying a person or load
• be powered by an electric motor
• have 1 or more wheels
• have a braking system
• have no sharp protrusions.

Rules for rideables

For everyone’s safety, ride in a safe and respectful manner, especially around pedestrians. Rideables don't need to be registered.

For your safety, you must:

• be at least 16 years of age, or 12 with adult supervision
• wear an approved bicycle helmet, that is securely fitted, at all times (unless an exemption has been granted for medical or religious reasons)
• not carry passengers
• not use a mobile device
• not drink and ride
• have a working flashing or steady white light on the front, and a red light and reflector at the rear when travelling at night or in hazardous conditions.

When riding on a path, you must:

• Keep left and give way to pedestrians.
• Travel at a speed that allows you to stop safely to avoid colliding with a pedestrian.
• Travel at a safe distance from a pedestrian so you can avoid a collision.
• Keep left of oncoming bicycles and other personal mobility devices.
• Only use the bicycle side of a shared path.

Using a rideable

Rideables should be used on paths wherever possible.

Some limited access to roads is permitted but only in specific circumstances. For example, you can use your rideable to cross a road or avoid an obstruction on a path for up to 50m.

You are allowed to stay on your personal mobility device to cross a road at a designated crossing.

You can also ride on local streets, where it is safe to do so. A local street is a road with a speed limit of 50km/h or less. It must have no dividing line or median strip and if it is a one-way road, it can’t have more than one lane.

You must not ride on main roads or streets in the Brisbane CBD.

When permitted to ride on a street you must keep as far to the left side of the road as practicable.

Just like bicycle riders, you may ride alongside 1 other person or vehicle travelling on a road in the same direction. However, you must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver or unreasonably obstruct the path of any other road user.

You must not:

• be towed by another vehicle
• hold on to the back of another vehicle
• ride within 2m of the rear of a moving motor vehicle continuously for more than 200m.

Restricted areas

Personal mobility device prohibited sign

You must not travel past a personal mobility devices prohibited sign—your local council or land owners may prohibit personal mobility devices in areas like malls, esplanades or jetties.

You should also contact your local council to find out if there are any local laws that apply to the use of rideables.

Penalties for non-compliance

If you get caught not complying with these rules you will be fined at least $133.

Hiring a rideable

If you are using a hired rideable you must leave your device in a safe and responsible way having regard for other path users.

Hire companies may have additional conditions of use in addition these rules.

Hire companies must consult their local council or authority prior to deployment.

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

One could ban all personal safety protection while riding an EUC. This would have the effect of evenly spreading the risk of a crash among all parties. Almost without exception, very fast EUC riders wear superbike levels of protection; if there's a collision with pedestrian or a bicyclist you can be sure the EUC rider won't get hurt.

I play with this though a lot. We are 50 riders in our group here in Stockholm. I am one of the few who will ride without a helmet. Take a rider's helmet off, knee pads, etc whatever and they will think twice about speeding. I rode without my kevlar hoodie today and it sure slowed me down lol. I have simply gotten used to it and without it I don't feel the same sense of security.

54 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Have you watch some of the older vids on EUCs ie. a year or 2 ago? Alot of the riders (influencers at that) ride with no protection, not even sk8 helmets. In the streets of NY & sometimes at topspeed.

But amazingly, I haven't heard much if any of EUC related pedestrian injuries. So there's that

They still do.. they just rarely show it anymore to avoid the HELEMEETU comments.

 

So yeah... no armor, no helmet and an obligatory leash. Since apparently these wheels can cut off at any time! What kind of message are we conveying. 
If it can cut off or fail at any time then don't ride it near people. If you can fall off at any time don't ride it around people!
And definitely not in traffic as you will get run over.. or your wheel will go flying into a car causing one hell of a nasty accident.

I rode my Nikola today with the thought in my mind that it could cut off at any moment. 
"This would be a bad time"
"This would also be a bad time"
"Hmm.. this would be a really terrible time"

Oh yeah.. and mandatory max PSI on the tyre. 

[GPW]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

A rideable in Queensland must:

• be designed for use by a single person only
• fit the following dimensions:
  • 1,250mm in length by 700mm in width by 1,350mm in height
    or
  • 700mm in length by 1,250mm in width by 1,350mm in height
• have a maximum speed of 25km/h
• have a maximum weight of 60kg—when not carrying a person or load
• be powered by an electric motor
• have 1 or more wheels
• have a braking system
• have no sharp protrusions.

 

These look pretty reasonable to me overall. Has the maximum speed been an issue? Clearly a lot of EUCs can go faster. Or just not an issue so long as you are operating at reasonable speed for wherever you are?

[GPW]

3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

One could ban all personal safety protection while riding an EUC. This would have the effect of evenly spreading the risk of a crash among all parties. Almost without exception, very fast EUC riders wear superbike levels of protection; if there's a collision with pedestrian or a bicyclist you can be sure the EUC rider won't get hurt.

I definitely get the concept of trying to force some additional operator caution. But too many things out of my control that could end with my face hitting the pavement! 

[GPW]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

and an obligatory leash

Do you actually leash your wheel? Have thought about the concept, but fear the cons might outweigh the pros. Is there a good way to do it? 

[Mike Sacristan]

Just now, GPW said:

Do you actually leash your wheel? Have thought about the concept, but fear the cons might outweigh the pros. Is there a good way to do it? 

I don't... but I thought about it a lot today. And when I fell a few days ago the EXN went rolling for a good 10 meters. It was past midnight with no one around.. but man if it would have hit someone that would have been the end. A 33.5kg wheel though attached to my 64kg body. It would almost qualify as a new Mortal Kombat Fatality.

[Mike Sacristan]

And yeah... I would guess some kind of bungee type cord so that it doesn't suddenly pull on us with force... but stretch a bit a bit more gracefully and with less shock. Then we could even keep it decently short. Of course one could always talk about a high speed scenario at 70kmh and what a fall + bungee cord would look like... but then one could always wonder what a 70kmh rolling wheel hitting a car or pedestrian implies.

[Camenbert]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:12 PM, GPW said:

What does "good" euc/pev regulation look like? (I have some high level thoughts below on what "good" might mean, but this is clearly open for debate)

Shorter the better, to cover from EUC to Velomobile, 3 simples rules to allow PEV on the road:

- must be for one only (no passenger)
- max weight 50kg or 100lbs
- max battery 5kWh,
plus the usual light, horn, brake and/or ebrake on each wheel, eventually 60MPH/100KPH limit. Basta.

This freedom will push for innovation, and if this is too successful, well, it might solve the pollution problem of transportation...