Trolley handle heights, from ground?

[Thomas Carter]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone tell me if any of the following EUC have a retractable handle that extends to at least 32 inches from the ground?

Inmotion V10F

Inmotion V10

Inmotion V8

Kingsong 16S

Kingsong 14S

Kingsong 14D

I cannot find any information on the heights that trolley handles reach, when fully extended.

I am 6'1", ~200lbs, and brand new here. Looking to eventually buy my first new EUC. I have previously only (briefly) owned a used Airwheel X3.

As much as all the other specs are way more important, it will quickly become very frustrating if I have to bend sideways whenever I need to trolley around my $1000+ EUC machine.

Thanks in advance,

Thomas

 

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

4 hours ago, Thomas Carter said:

Inmotion V8

34 ¼ in

But I wouldn't recommend a V8 for your size and weight if you want a EUC for fun. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by buell47

[mike_bike_kite]

KS16S approx 34" or 84cm

I'm 6'3" and find the handle just a smidgen to low.

Any 14" wheel tends to be a bit twitchy for general use unless that's what you're after. Of the wheels you mention I'd recommend the V10F or the 16S but you could also look at the MCM5 v2 or possibly even the Tesla v2 (no idea of the trolley heights though).

[Thomas Carter]

8 hours ago, buell47 said:

34 ¼ in

But I wouldn't recommend a V8 for your size and weight if you want a EUC for fun. 

I am looking to buy an EUC primarily to save on money by having it replace me taking the bus or Uber regularly. I imagine I would also take it out just for fun on some evening rides, but I have no plans to go off-roading with it on any hiking paths or attempting all kinds of tricks like I have seen on some videos.

I want to make it main commuting solution so I can save money in the long-run.

Buell47, can I ask what kind or which EUC you would recommend for my size and weight?

 

5 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

KS16S approx 34" or 84cm

I'm 6'3" and find the handle just a smidgen to low.

Any 14" wheel tends to be a bit twitchy for general use unless that's what you're after. Of the wheels you mention I'd recommend the V10F or the 16S but you could also look at the MCM5 v2 or possibly even the Tesla v2 (no idea of the trolley heights though).

Oh, maybe I won`t go for a 14" wheel then... I was okay with it so far because I had seen smaller wheels described in review videos as very nimble, and my commute goes from an urban neighborhood to downtown, so I thought that made sense for me.

I unavoidably have at least 2 steep ascents/descents on my commute, I haven't looked at the MCM5 or the Tesla v2 so far because I have only been looking at EUC's with a max grade of at least 30 because of said inclines and the fact that I am ~200lbs.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

4 minutes ago, Thomas Carter said:

Buell47, can I ask what kind or which EUC you would recommend for my size and weight?

How many km/mi do you have to ride without the possibility to charge? 

I would ask now how fast you want to go, but the speed increases anyway over time. So I would definitely recommend not to calculate too tight. The V8 can for example do 30 km/h, but not until the small battery is completely empty. At half time it is only 25kmh and with decreasing battery power it is slower and slower.

If you buy too small at the beginning, you will buy the next one quickly, so it is better to invest a bit more than you think you need. 

[mike_bike_kite]

41 minutes ago, Thomas Carter said:

I am looking to buy an EUC primarily to save on money by having it replace me taking the bus or Uber regularly.

I once lived in one of the most expensive cities on Earth. I also wanted to save money and ended up buying a very cheap bicycle to commute on. Not only did I enjoy the cycling, I actually became quite fit. The only issue was when it rained (or snowed) and then I regretted not splashing out on the next model up which had mudguards  The only issue with an EUC is they take a little time to learn and the weather affects them ie they aren't great in rain as you always worry about the electronics, they're not stable in strong winds, they're not stable in the snow either and the cold reduces their range. They are great fun though.

[Thomas Carter]

On 11/25/2020 at 11:12 AM, buell47 said:

How many km/mi do you have to ride without the possibility to charge? 

I would ask now how fast you want to go, but the speed increases anyway over time. So I would definitely recommend not to calculate too tight. The V8 can for example do 30 km/h, but not until the small battery is completely empty. At half time it is only 25kmh and with decreasing battery power it is slower and slower.

If you buy too small at the beginning, you will buy the next one quickly, so it is better to invest a bit more than you think you need. 

I only about 3 km each way, and there are easily accessible wall plugs at work that I can use to charge my future EUC.

Honestly I am very happy just going ~25km/h most of the time, the ability to faster would be great for navigating traffic, but I don't need anything faster than 40-45km/h since 40km/h is the speed limit for Low Speed Vehicles in Ontario. ( http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/low-speed-vehicles.shtml )

The ideal would be if I can find something that would not cost more than 12 months of bus passes or 1440$. I am not sure how feasible that is though; so I am open to spending more, as long as the increase in cost can provide an even greater increase in total life duration of said EUC. Like, if a better EUC costs 240$ more but would only last an extra two months, there is zero benefit because 240$ is the same as two months of bus pass.

Basically to answer your last question, I want to avoid upgrading shortly after my first one, I want to buy one that will last me at least 24 months, ideally at least 36 months. I feel like anything less than a 24-month life span would end up being significantly diminishing returns on investment.

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, Thomas Carter said:

I am not sure how feasible that is though; so I am open to spending more, as long as the increase in cost can provide an even greater increase in total life duration of said EUC.

Life duration will be determined by how long you want to use the wheel instead of upgrading it. So (for me) this tends toward buying a "better" model if in doubt.

I'd say a V10 or V10F is about where you should start. Not too slow (everyone thinks 25kph is enough and everyone later finds out how wrong that was) and not too weak (powerful battery and motor). Or maybe a Tesla.

Is your commute on bike paths and streets with few stops, or maybe more sidewalks and intersections and other situations where you stop and go lot? How much is it cruising comfort vs. zippyness and quick maneuvering?

Do you also consider a used wheel? You can get a lot more bang for your buck then.

Also keep in mind the extra costs for protective gear if they play a role in your decision.

[Thomas Carter]

9 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Life duration will be determined by how long you want to use the wheel instead of upgrading it. So (for me) this tends toward buying a "better" model if in doubt.

I'd say a V10 or V10F is about where you should start. Not too slow (everyone thinks 25kph is enough and everyone later finds out how wrong that was) and not too weak (powerful battery and motor). Or maybe a Tesla.

Is your commute on bike paths and streets with few stops, or maybe more sidewalks and intersections and other situations where you stop and go lot? How much is it cruising comfort vs. zippyness and quick maneuvering?

Do you also consider a used wheel? You can get a lot more bang for your buck then.

Also keep in mind the extra costs for protective gear if they play a role in your decision.

I want to use my wheel at least twice a day, 5-6 days a week, mostly to travel ~6km a day on city downtown city roads and bike paths.
I am buying this primarily as a commute solution, so I want to either never upgrade, or not upgrade for as long as possible. Upgrading early defeats my purposes for this.

I don't really have a reference point for what a weak or strong watt-hour rating is for motors and batteries. I feel like 250-350wh is weak, 400-650wh is midrange and 800wh+ is strong, but I am really not sure. Though I have read that some weaker batteries (like I think the Kingsong 14D) will lose a lot of acceleration or something after the battery dips below 50%.

Once I am very comfortable with my future EUC after practicing on it a bunch, I intend to ride it on the road beside the cars or on the bicycle paths, not on the sidewalk. The commute is mostly straight lines with a few turns, so I don't see extreme maneuverability being very necessary, just the ability to stick close to the curb when turn the corner on a city block should be plenty for maneuverability. However I do see quick acceleration off the start as something that would be very useful for my commute.

I'm open to buying a used wheel, but I live in Ottawa, Canada; I currenlty cannot find any used EUC listings anywhere.
I suspect the shipping costs of whoever I might buy a used EUC from, would drastically reduce the savings I would get from buying used.

Yeah I have not fully calculated the extra cost of protective gear but that is in the back of my mind.
 

[meepmeepmayer]

21 minutes ago, Thomas Carter said:

I don't really have a reference point for what a weak or strong watt-hour rating is for motors and batteries. I feel like 250-350wh is weak, 400-650wh is midrange and 800wh+ is strong, but I am really not sure. Though I have read that some weaker batteries (like I think the Kingsong 14D) will lose a lot of acceleration or something after the battery dips below 50%.

For your weight and height, you'll want a strong battery to prevent overleans (the wheel not keeping up with you doing a stronger acceleration, and you falling on your face).

Batteries are made of blocks of cells (how many in a block is fixed and determined by the voltage of your wheel), and you put these blocks in parallel to get bigger battery capacities. More parallel blocks means more power.

You'll want to avoid 2p batteries (2 blocks in parallel) like on the V8F, 14D. 4p is better, that would be on the 14S, 16S, V10(F), Tesla, and bigger batteries are 4p or more automatically.

The rated motor power doesn't really matter as long as it's "big enough", like 1500W or more. Most modern wheels are 2000W+ anyways.

20 minutes ago, Thomas Carter said:

Right now both the V10F and the 16S are on sale for $1599 CAD, do any of you see either of those are clearly better than the other?

For the same price, the V10F is the newer and faster wheel, and probably more sleek and functional. It also has a wider tire which makes it a bit more cushioned and comfortable.

The 16S is older. It's not bad, but personally I'd buy a Tesla (speed and zippyness, same tire size as the 16S) or V10F (comfort, overall package) over it. The tire is a little smaller than the V10F one, which may give it a bit more immediate acceleration (the V10F accelerates  just as well, but you will have to lean it a bit more in comparison), and the 16S has a really nice trolley handle (but the V10F one seems good enough as well). The 35kph speed limit (including abrupt killer tiltback there) may just be a little too slow for long term happyness.

Trust your gut on which one looks like it would fit you better.

[Thomas Carter]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The 35kph speed limit (including abrupt killer tiltback there) may just be a little too slow for long term happyness.

Sorry, which one has the killer tiltback, the 16S, or the V10F?

Also tank you so much everyone for all your help, I really appreciate all this information it is super helpful!

[meepmeepmayer]

The 16S has a sudden tiltback that can surprise-crash you if you don't expect it. At least that's how it used to be, not sure if they ever changed that (@mrelwood do you know?). So essentially it's a 30-32kph wheel (you have your speed beeps there, to avoid getting too close to 35kph) which, in my opinion, is just a tad too slow.

The V10F with 45kph max is fast enough so you can cruise at peace at 35-40kph instead.

-

Another thing: some days the weather will just be shitty and you might want to take the bus instead. Include that in your cost considerations. Maybe a new wheel that is nice and fast enough for you to be happy with just isn't 100% there yet in replacing the bus pass from a purely financial perspective. That's where used wheels would come in. Or you simply accept it that you also buy a EUC because it's just fun

[Daley1]

the 16s tiltback is killer if u speed into it.If u glide gently up to it ,it comes on gradually.The 16s is an older machine but as a commuter is  superb for a bigger rider and very portable.It is solidly built but xl pedals and a roll.nz cover for weather/crash protetction.Bulid in the cost of protection to ur overall price!

[mike_bike_kite]

5 minutes ago, Daley1 said:

the 16s tiltback is killer if u speed into it.If u glide gently up to it ,it comes on gradually.

Totally agree with this but, if your commute distance is only 3km and your main aim is to save money, I'd just walk.

[Thomas Carter]

14 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Totally agree with this but, if your commute distance is only 3km and your main aim is to save money, I'd just walk.

Haha I didn't want to hear that but you are totally right! 😅

[Thomas Carter]

I just don't like walking to work because it 35-45 minutes in the morning.

[meepmeepmayer]

19 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Totally agree with this but, if your commute distance is only 3km and your main aim is to save money, I'd just walk.

Hey you're not allowed to use the w-word on this forum

3 km is... a 30 minute walk? A bit much for what could be a 10-15 min ride. And you're not getting sweaty in summer.

[Tawpie]

I’m thinking that if you’re really really just looking to save money on bus passes, you should probably just buy bus passes. Or ask/pressure your employer to buy them for you (save the planet and all that, your local government may help your employer with the cost because it reduces traffic). When you factor in the cost of gear, and the few extra moments of time it takes to get in and out of your stuff every ride, and the fact that you WILL be on the bus part of the time due to weather, the big meeting, your hangover... I’d bet the bus is a clear winner.

however. Riding the bus isn’t ever done for entertainment. Or making new friends. Or on a weekend outing exploring a new place. It won’t put a silly grin on your face or give you a shot of adrenaline, and no kid will ever look at you on the bus and go “Woowwww”.

the hard part is putting a $$$ number on that—if it’s low, then bus is your best option. Otherwise...

Edited November 29, 2020 by Tawpie

[meepmeepmayer]

8 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I’m thinking that if you’re really really just looking to save money on bus passes, you should probably just buy bus passes.

Or some bicycle for like $100.

8 hours ago, Tawpie said:

however. Riding the bus isn’t ever done for entertainment. Or making new friends. Or on a weekend outing exploring a new place. It won’t put a silly grin on your face or give you a shot of adrenaline, and no kid will ever look at you on the bus and go “Woowwww”.

Well said!

[Thomas Carter]

Ah, y'all are great; I really appreciate it. Yeah I have to agree with all of you, I`m better off walking or buying a cheap bicycle if I really want to save money.

I briefly had a used X3 before the motherboard broke or something, but even just going 10km/h on that little thing got really fun.

I think if I do end up buying one, I'll just have to say screw the saving on money for this one and get the V10f.

For now though I think I'll just stick with the bus...

Edited November 30, 2020 by Thomas Carter

[AtlasP]

The bus may be cheap, but ubers/zipcar add up (when the bus isn't an option due to location/time/convenience), not to mention any medical bills from getting sick from shared public transpo. I still think a person can come out ahead using an EUC in lieu of public transpo, particularly with capable commuting devices in the $1-1.5k range. Remember that 'used' is an option to keep costs down.

Edited December 4, 2020 by AtlasP

[longjohnsally]

I know you didn't have it on your list, but the 16x has an amazing and wonderful 41" high trolley handle.  I'm 6'7" and I LOVE IT.  I tried out an MSP the other day for the first time and was shocked at how low and lousy it felt in comparison.  I was thinking of getting an MSP or RS and it immediately made me rethink my plan (at least for a city wheel).   If you need something you can easily take into stores or onto trains/buses, etc, the 16x is great.

[Thomas Carter]

Wow the specs of the 16x do looks really sweet, but I hadn't looked at it simply because it's so expensive.

Right now on sale 2250$. Bus passes are 120$/month. It would only be near the end of the 19th month that I would start to see return on investment from using an EUC instead of public transit or Uber. (2250/120=18.75)

But because snow I would only be riding ~8 months out of the whole year. 19 divided by 8 equals 2.375. It would take almost two and a half years before I would have actually ridden a 16x long enough to start seeing a return on investment.

But from what I understand most of these batteries will only last 2-3 years, I guess maybe 4 if you take really care of it? But a replacement battery of that level is super expensive. At a quick search I can't find a seller for a replacement battery; but lets say the battery lasts 3 years, I would save all of 600$.

I'm better off only eating rice & apples for a month if I only want to save 600$ :/

[Kurtosis]

Honestly you would be fine with a 16s. 3 km each way you're not even going to have time to get up to speed on the 16x

But I have to agree with everyone else - if your main aim is to save money, you're better off walking. This reminds me a lot of my other hobby - homebrewing. You can save money doing it, but very few actually do it for that reason, and even fewer actually save any money.

[mrelwood]

On 11/28/2020 at 10:02 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

The 16S has a sudden tiltback that can surprise-crash you if you don't expect it. At least that's how it used to be, not sure if they ever changed that (@mrelwood do you know?).

I did not once experience the abrupt tilt-back on the 16S for the 9000km I ride on it, on any firmware. But I never had the guts to accelerate had to the top speed, doing so would make my inner voice just scream “stupid!”. I think the speed at which the tilt-back starts has varied between 32.5-34km/h when gliding softly into it, depending on the firmware. But it’s a smallish wheel for a 193cm rider, and I wouldn’t want it to go any faster. The V10F is much more stable, warranting its higher top speed.

I understand the extremely pragmatic approach the op has for choosing to use an EUC, but reflecting it to the life altering, drug-like, immeasurably joyful experiences and richness riding has brought into my life, I can’t not smirk just a bit.

 Sure, count the pennies all you want, but for the clear majority of us, riding an EUC has turned into something completely different and much more valuable than we could’ve ever imagined.