KS16X in 2020

[Tokumeino]

Hi, 84V is so 2019... but the KS16X is nevertheless on my short list to upgrade from my KS16S. Alas, I can read many underwhelming input on this forum. But I suspect that some of the reported issues could have been solved within one year and incremental updates of the same wheel. But it is difficult to know what has been solved, and what remains an issue. Can you help me sorting the un/resolved out of these questions ... 

1. Have any progress been achieved regarding weather sealing? The feedback from Batch 1 and 2 is calamitous about this, but it's important for me because I want something I can ride anywhere, anytime, in any conditions (reasonable though: not the heaviest rains, but if I'm surprised by a shower or want to ride in moderate rain with my waterproof suit, I don't want to worry about the wheel).
2. Some report an important wobble past 35km/h: is it true? Is the hole in the rim more towards the middle, for a correct alignment of the tire on the circumference?
3. Are there still weired and unexpeted cut-offs ?
4. With recent firmwares's, at what speed can you ride with 50% battery power? and 25%?
5. The Gotways are faster, no doubt about it. But below 40km/h, does a KS16X accelerate decently by comparison and is it stable enough?
6. The Gotway RS should end axle fragility issues. Is the axis of a KS16X stronger than that of an MSP?
7. A KS16X is significantly heavier than a KS16S. But is the trolley convenient so I can keep the KS16X in a supermarket, in front of a market stall while choosing vegetables, etc?
8. Are the recent tires bigger than those of an MSP? or the same?
9. Is now speed throttling smoother ?
10. Has the dropping-mudguard issue been fixed?

Thanks in advance for your help. Enjoy !

Edited November 16, 2020 by Tokumeino

[Kurtosis]

I'm curious about the answers to these questions too as I'm looking to upgrade from KS16S as well.

[RoadRunner]

1 hour ago, Tokumeino said:

Hi, 84V is so 2019

I have a very first batch of the 16X, and it runs like a beast.

Got roundabout 6500km on the clock now and never had any problems.

To answer your questions

 1. Don’t know what changed in the 2020 version in terms of waterproofing but I would always try to avoid rain with any wheel, but if you get caught in the rain you can take one of these backpack rain covers with you and pop it over.

2. Wobbles go away when you know your wheel, i don’t get any wobbles on my 16X.

3. I never had a cutoff neither a friend of mine @buell47 or @Mike Sacristan also with first batches, and we don’t ride like priests. 

4. I think @buell47 knows that. 

5. It not only accelerates decently, it shoots like a rocket.

6. I never had problems with my axle.

7. Trolley from Kingsongs are always convenient. 

8. They are all 3“ but it depends on which tire you have, some are a bit wider some a bit narrower.

9. Speed throttling always sucks. 

10. My mudguard is still in its place.

If your not a speed demon it’s a great wheel.

 

 

[postbio]

At 1,100 miles / 1,800 km, I can verify with one manufactured May 2020, I can confirm comments by @RoadRunner.

I upgraded from the 16S to the 16X and I love it. So long as you're not a speed demon going past 30 mph, I think it fulfills all needs such as range, acceleration, nimble feel, etc. I have no desire to go over 30mph myself, so it's like the perfect wheel now. 

I hear the acceleration matches or surpasses much of the faster/newer wheels too. 

[Tokumeino]

Thanks for your answers. I actually would never set TB past 45km/h (28mph) regarding legal constraints in my country (France, EU), which means actual cruising speed without alarms a bit lower. An insurance is mandatory, but no company will insure a wheel with a TB set past 45km/h. We are actually not allowed to ride an EUC past 25km/h (1500 euros fee if you get catched) but past 45km/h is of another magnitude : it becomes a delict and not only an infraction. So I don't actually need a MSP or a RS : the extra torque would be mostly for a comfortable safety margin within the 0-45km/h range. 100V Gotways could be overkills for my use cases.

So, what I'm actually looking for, is a versatile and perfectly safe vehicule (on a EUC scale) below 45km/h (28mph), which means that I'm after (by order of matter to me) :

• no cutoff at this speed while leaning (I wouldn't use powerpads)
• no cutoff due to regular rain (I want versatility)
• smooth speed throttling if any
• no wobble due to a misplaced rim hole for the valve (I can deal with "rider-legs" wobble)

For all these points, issues had been reported on this forum, for the first 2 batches (I've read many topics before posting here). I wonder, are there posterior batches that have successfully adressed these issues ? I understand that many people have ridden 1st and 2nd batches without an issue. But one single cutoff over 1000 users and millions of miles is already too much because it is about basic safety, not about cosmetics or convenience. Let me add that I'm perfectly fine with buying a 1+ year  "old" wheel because I understand that it takes time to get feedback from users and correct initial flaws. But I'd also like to know about such corrections. I'm an early adopter for many things, but not when my safety comes into play.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Tokumeino

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

15 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

Is the hole in the rim more towards the middle, for a correct alignment of the tire on the circumference?

I doubt it

15 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

Are there still weired and unexpeted cut-offs ?

No, if you know and respect the wheels capabilities. I always pushed the wheel on- and offroad over bumps and potholes until the soft tiltback kicks in. (speed limit is set to 50 km/h)
I don´t lean like superman and use Power-Pads instead. I think otherwise I had some faceplants for sure.

 

15 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

With recent firmwares's, at what speed can you ride with 50% battery power? and 25%?

At 50%, more precisely at 71V, the throttling starts and goes down continuously from 50 km/h.
At 25% / 68V 45km/h was still possible.
I hate percentage....
At 63,5V still 32 km/h
At 62% still 29 km/h

 

3 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

no cutoff at this speed while leaning (I wouldn't use powerpads)

To each his own , but I would never ride again without

Edited November 17, 2020 by buell47

[RoadRunner]

4 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

• no cutoff at this speed while leaning (I wouldn't use powerpads)
• no cutoff due to regular rain (I want versatility)

 

4 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

But one single cutoff over 1000 users and millions of miles is already too much

Dude an EUC is stuffed with electrical components so failures can happen any second so maybe you have to stop thinking that much about it or ride a bicycle. 

No one can guarantee you that a wheel can’t fail. 

But if you say your max speed is 45kmh i don’t think you you have to fear anything on any of today’s wheels.

Edited November 17, 2020 by RoadRunner

[wheel-life]

4 hours ago, Tokumeino said:

• no cutoff due to regular rain (I want versatility)

Unless I missed something recent, 16X is not the wheel to buy if you want to ride in the rain. That was my understanding when I bought it at least...has anyone heard (or experienced) different?

[RoadRunner]

32 minutes ago, manieuc said:

Unless I missed something recent, 16X is not the wheel to buy if you want to ride in the rain. That was my understanding when I bought it at least...has anyone heard (or experienced) different?

Well I think it’s more a matter of, do you have good luck or bad luck, i know many people who rode the 16X in heavy rain including me, nothing happened.

Here is an old video from Eddie Moy where he is riding the pre production unit in heavy rain. He didn’t have a problem.

 

Then there are people who just get a few drops of water on their wheel and its dead, so. 🤷‍♂️

Maybe get a bodyguard and a backpack raincover for the top.

Or consider the 18XL, i think it’s a pretty rain resistant wheel, as you can see in Dufs video.

 

[Tokumeino]

I ride a KS16S and I respect the TB and the beeps. I'll do so with my next wheel. What I want to avoid is an issue that we know about, but has not been solved yet. And of course, when I write "safe", I mean "safe on a specific EUC scale" and I could add "provided I respect the TB and beeps". For my next wheel, I won't use power pads for a very stupid reason : the small place next to my apartment door, where I put my wheel, is too narrow to accommodate a wheel with additional pads 😏

About water, I'm afraid that it will be a deal breaker to me. I don't want to rely upon luck for such things. I want an upgrade over my KS16S and versatility is a keypoint for what will be quite an expense to me. And among versatility aspects, water résistance is an important one to me. I'm not in a hurry, and I'll wait that manufacturers take this point a bit more seriously and in the mean time, I'll continue to enjoy my KS16S.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Tokumeino

[RoadRunner]

1 hour ago, Tokumeino said:

About water, I'm afraid that it will be a deal breaker to me. I don't want to rely upon luck for such things. I want an upgrade over my KS16S and versatility is a keypoint for what will be quite an expense to me. And among versatility aspects, water résistance is an important one to me. I'm not in a hurry, and I'll wait that manufacturers take this point a bit more seriously and in the mean time, I'll continue to enjoy my KS16S.

As i said, have a look at the 18XL then.

Don‘t think you will get any problems when riding in rain especially when you throw a bodyguard on.

The XL is a very reliable wheel, with good speed and range.

By the way i want to sell mine, if you’re interested. 

[redsnapper]

imo no wheel is safe to ride in moderate to heavy rain because your speed forces water into all kinds of places (watch water move  on glass in 40kph wind)! the consequence of water getting to the controller (or other electronic components) is so big when it is so ez to just place a plastic bag over the top 1/2. Then you have no worries... I would not trust any company advertising waterproof no matter what they promise. If your board shorts/fries, you are gonna be on the hook for the replacement and all the downtime. I say buy the machine based on criteria that excludes water resistance and then bag it and go when you have to deal with rain...

[null]

Some wheels take it much better than others, just because its not 100% guarantee doesn't make it nill.
Bagging it isn't going to help much for tire splash water.

If you are regularly out in rain, or are paranoid about getting the electronics wet, I'd say get a wheel that can take some rain.
The 18Xl will take heavy downpour. Not the most fun wheel but very reliable.

[redsnapper]

5 minutes ago, null said:

Bagging it isn't going to help much for tire splash water.

Question - so the idea is that this water will come through the wheel well where the shell halves meet? In the kS16x there is a large heat sink attached to the  underside of the controller which is horizontally seated right above the well. so I am not clear on how wheel splash will distribute water onto the controller if the top is bagged. Just curious - I have not considered this and I don't want to have to replace yet another controller! 

[null]

I dont know the 16X in particular but many EUCs dont have sealing in the inner wheel well, between the two shells.
For example the Sherman here pictured. Some early V10 caught fire because of this, the batteries who where on top got water ingress through the crack. Gotway EUCs often have random screws coming through into the well, if they rusted or a hole was empty there could be water ingress. See the picture of the EX on ecodrift for instance (lower). Several screws sticking out. The ninebot E(+) has a cable holder that was a several cm opening between the well and the battery / logic boards compartments. I just can't trust the designs not to allow ingress..I'm not saying a rain cap won't help, but I wouldn't like relying just on that..

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by null

[Crooznfbroozn]

I got an August 2020 wheel. I ride with power pads (albeit my own creation which are positioned low on the wheel). I ride mostly off road.

No wobbles, no cutoffs (except for the lateral angle cutoff which can be adjusted, and sometimes a beep when I'm leaning too much while hanging in the air), I never got speed throttled (I can try tonight), got slow down beeps at around 35-40kph at 20% battery once, axle is still alive and I'm pretty aggressive off road, trolley handle is superb and handling it is a breeze, acceleration for all I care is good, the wheel is.. well.. what the specs say, my mudguard is already broken but then again I make the wheel do unhealthy crashes in the forest.. I just ducktaped it back on. 

As far as water resistance goes, I would definitely recommend protecting the wheel yourself and even then I'd suggest not to tempt fate. There is foam etc that wasn't there for the first wheels, from what I can guess the power button was a weak point and is no more. But I still have taped down what I can and use a bodyguard. There are open cracks on the body, and the rubber covers over the USB/charging points don't fill me with confidence for heavy rain. (I ducktape all of them) I have been through rain, puddles - all is well. But it doesn't fill me with confidence and accept it is risking the wheel. I'd pretty much do the same with any of these wheels - my Inmotion was the safest when it came to this though.

I love the wheel, although I haven't tried a GW and would love to try. Only gripe I have it the lack of a knobby tire that fits this wheel. I've ordered something off aliexpress which to me is always a scam/loss - and 25+ euros for delivery... Well...

In your case maybe an Inmotion is better? Just given the whole rain thing.

[Tokumeino]

Thanks for the input. Indeed, besides rain fall (not that frequent where I live), I fear water pools (much more frequent, especially during fall or even winter : I commute EVERY week day, no exception, whatever the weather).

@null and @RoadRunner : I have to admit that I didn't really look forward a KS18XL because I'd like a 3" tyre. As a long term cyclist, my sweet spot turned to be 2"+ tires (and I have 2 on my bike) for a bunch of reasons. As a cyclist, I also hate suspensions (and I've tried hi-end ones) for feeling disconnected from the road (even if I know that actually, suspensions let you stick to it : it's more a feeling that I strongly dislike... not very rational, just a matter of taste/fun).

And that's why, @Crooznfbroozn, I didn't even consider the V11 because of the suspension. But Inmotion advertises IP55 and besides a quick required mod on the light-fan, it seems that they actually took care for splash resistance. So I guess that I should try it and figure out if I don't feel too much "suspended" over the road. Not beeing a speed deamon and beeing OK with a linear acceleration, it could be an option despite the suspension, after all, provided lower-speed cutoffs issues have been resolved by firmware, and provided batch #3 solves most of the current hardware issues.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Tokumeino

[null]

The 18XL isn't the most exciting, and might benefit from a 3" tyre indeed. Its a good overall package though, and probably the most waterproof.
Maybe you could wait for the v12 without suspensions and probably with some weather proofing..

Edited November 18, 2020 by null

[Tokumeino]

About the V12, I anticipate a Sherman-like tank with huge batteries and that's not what I want. But you're probably right @null : no rush. The market seems to evolve.

[Unventor]

I replied to you PM. If you look at my signature I can say between ally wheels the V11 is my best option for all my uses. Once you tested the suspension and it is failed in, it is very hard to go back to a normal wheel. 

Any time I go out of my door the V11 is trusty by my side. My 800+km on it doesn't sound like much but due to covid-19 I have many low range rides. From your profile I saw you are in Paris. So you should have an option to test a V11 either from a store or someone in the community. 

To me the V11 is EUC reinvented. Now I just got new hex pedals and side pads and seat. On Friday I get to test pads and pedals if all goes as planned. (I took the day off). 

[Tokumeino]

Thanks. Difficult to test by myself due to COVID restrictions. What I fear with suspensions is to loose the feeling of the ground. I hate that with suspended bikes.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Tokumeino

[Hangman]

Quote

What I fear with suspensions is to loose the feeling of the ground. I hate that with suspended bikes.

So with the V11, empty all the air out of the lower chamber of each shock, fill the top chamber with ... 80+ psi (5.5+ bar) and voila' ... no suspension.

[Unventor]

On 11/18/2020 at 7:42 PM, Tokumeino said:

Thanks. Difficult to test by myself due to COVID restrictions. What I fear with suspensions is to loose the feeling of the ground. I hate that with suspended bikes.

I had a little doubt at first too. But I have only good to say about this do far. I still feel connected to ground but major spikes of impact are smoothen out. 

But like post above me suggest there might be a way around it until you get more familiar with the V11. 

[bridge139]

see my riding by ks16x in South Korea

 

https://youtu.be/8SI_GqpsrVQ