Looking for a great charger for your electric unicycle?

[EUC Addict]

Have you ever wished someone made a charger that had variable voltage, variable amperage, auto detect between 110v/240v, swappable charging connections, and was smaller and lighter than two 10 amp chargers?

Behold the Chargery C10325 charger. The first time I saw this charger was watching trip updates from Archee Jan Bloch as he rode his modified Gotway 3108W Monster from Boston to New York City and back, traversing 625 miles of continuous riding and charging.

The C10325 is a 1500W charger and weighs 3.5kg (7.72 lbs). It's is a big boy, but still slightly lighter and about 9% less volume than carrying two 10 amp chargers from YZPower. (Read more)

Edited October 30, 2020 by shwinston
added addition info

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, null said:

Is this an add?

Looks like - already considered moving this to the commercial section...

[EUC Addict]

I'm not selling this if that's what you're asking, but if you want to move it there you can. My only intention was to highlight this product as about 30 of us participated in a group buy and we really like the features. Place this wherever, but I'm not the seller nor do I receive commission for any sales. I just like this and am sharing it with the community.

[EUC Addict]

@null The Monster Pro can charge at 20A, so I will be charging it at 15A when I'm doing long trips. No need to charge that high at home.

[RockyTop]

Nice charger, I think I saw a room full of them the other day charging a new fleet of floor cleaners........ Four years from now we might have to switch over to Industrial fork lift chargers. 

[EUC Addict]

@RockyTop My dream is that the charger will eventually be built into the wheel. I know someone who is designing a seat for the Monster Pro that will house his 25 amp charger so he doesn't have to carry it in his backpack.

[RockyTop]

5 minutes ago, shwinston said:

@RockyTop My dream is that the charger will eventually be built into the wheel. I know someone who is designing a seat for the Monster Pro that will house his 25 amp charger so he doesn't have to carry it in his backpack.

It would be nice to at least have a slow 2.5 amp charger built into the wheel. 

[RetroThruster]

I had an electric motorcycle that had onboard charging, it would be nice on some of these bigger wheels to have both internal and external charging abilities.

[lordkaosu]

w

Edited November 4, 2021 by lordkaosu

[EUC123]

I need one for inmotion V10, which model works with that?

[EUC Addict]

1 hour ago, EUC123 said:

I need one for inmotion V10, which model works with that?

This charger can charge any wheel; however, riders with Sherman's are finding that the BMS on the Sherman prevents the charger from working properly unless it is in power supply mode. The manufacturer was contacted this evening to see if there was a work around.

[EUC Addict]

8 hours ago, null said:

Did you ever hear anything more regarding this?

There is no work around. You won't be able to balance your battery on the Sherman with this charger. All the guys I know who use this charger with the Sherman use power supply mode for fast charging at home or on the road. Stock charger used for balancing.

[EUC Addict]

6 hours ago, null said:

there is Satiator but not enough Amps

I debated buying two, but they are expensive.

[Hangman]

On 1/25/2021 at 9:40 PM, EUC Addict said:

There is no work around. You won't be able to balance your battery on the Sherman with this charger. All the guys I know who use this charger with the Sherman use power supply mode for fast charging at home or on the road. Stock charger used for balancing.

This is how it was explained to me to use the fast chargers, charge to 80-90% fast, then trickle charge & balance with the stock.

I'm interested in this just because buying a fast charger for my wheel & a fast charger for my brides scooter will run me $300.  At least I can get one charger to charge both units ... although not at the same time 🙁.

[Chriull]

3 hours ago, null said:

In theory you can balance with the faster charger as well,

Exactly - there is absolutely no reason to switch chargers for the different stages.

3 hours ago, null said:

if it is correctly set up.

?

3 hours ago, null said:

The chargery does it except (apparently) one some models which includes the Sherman.

Slowly interest rises in who thinks/says what about the chargery not doing right...

If the chargery does no balancing it would mean it has to stop charging once battery reaches 100% ~~ 100.8V during charging. So somewhere around 8x% charge (reported % after some resting time!) - so more or less just performing the CC stage.

As in some post mentioned in your ?endless sphere? discussuon link the chargery stops at some ?settable? current threshold? Perfect threshold for the veteran (24s10p) should be about 0.6A - 10 times the charge end current threshold of the used cells of afair ~60mA.

After charging current drops below this 0.6A this is considered trickle charging and _not_ recommended from the manufacturer (against datasheet specification!) - so just "malicous" stressing of the cells.

There still happens balancing during this "stressfull" trickle charging, but also between the transition of CC to CV stage up to this 0.6A threshold (==the whole CV stage). So i'd personally prefer using, repeated if needed, CV charging cycles for intensified balancing compared to trickle charging.

Could it be that some people believe wrongly that no balancing happens because the chargery stops charging by some current threshold? Just guessing!?

[Chriull]

25 minutes ago, null said:

Yes actually I had understood it as it didn't allow balancing, but the formulation is "the BMS on the Sherman prevents the charger from working properly unless it is in power supply mode".

PSU mode - _with_ constant maximum current of course, is the classic li ion charger. So i'd say, without knowing possible nasty further chargery specific details, nothing bad.

I'd speculate that in this PSU mode no charge current threshold is active and so some people believe this causes balancing to work?!

25 minutes ago, null said:

I also remember a post mentioning BMS incompatibility in a different setting, but I can't find it.

From what i've heard and is used in comparable BMS is monitoring of chatge current and single cell (group) overvoltage. And cut off in case the values are too high.

The rest is just normal charging procedure like providing some max CC with the accordingly rising voltage up to the max 100.8V.

Maybe there is some issue to overcome the reverse voltage protection for some first voltage measurement by the chargery to start providing power? But this should be quite standard with suxh battery packs/bms...

37 minutes ago, null said:

Thats why I didn't even start talking about balancing at first because it wasn't the subject, I just wanted to know if the Chargery could charge in a mode void of CAN commands or any smart communication.

Veteran as all other EUC provide not any form of communication over the charge plug.

[HarpMudd]

On 1/26/2021 at 4:41 AM, null said:

Thanks for the reply, that's too bad.
Difficult to find a powerful quality charger, for the Shermie at least. (there is Satiator but not enough Amps)

I really wish Grin would update the Satiator and provide connectors for all of our EUCs. That charger is a dream and is perfect to throw in a pack on long ride days.

[WI_Hedgehog]

Some high-end lithium BMS units I've encountered stop the charge cycle to check the battery state and if the battery test comes back "sane" the BMS continues charging the battery. Since a power supply doesn't care about the lack of current draw it continues supplying power as needed. 

A smart charger is a bit different: when the charger detects output current has fallen below a certain setting it stops the charge to prevent trickle charging the battery, which is harmful to lithium packs. The Chargery has this feature, so a "sanity check" by the BMS will cause the Chargery to stop charging. Restarting the charge manually will work until the next sanity check which again ends the charge. 

Depending on the BMS and smart charger there can be some charge current settings  that get around this for certain voltage ranges, but it's a lot of fiddling during the charge cycle to keep things working. A better option is to put a large capacitor on the smart charger outputs; when the BMS temporarily stops the charge the capacitor buffers the current, and as long as the voltage doesn't rise enough to alert the smart charger the BMS has time to complete the sanity check and continue the charge which brings the buffer capacitor voltage back down to the battery terminal voltage.

How can this be? Well, as the battery terminal voltage approaches the charge cutoff voltage (such as 4.20V for a 1S battery) the charge slows down. If the charge voltage was 4.20V, the battery would form a surface charge of 4.2V and stop charging. As the surface charge dissipated the true battery voltage would be 4.18V (or something similar). Therefore, the charge voltage for 4.2V is something higher, say 4.4V and the current cutoff is set at some percentage of the charge current, related to the charge voltage. It appears EUC chargers are don't do this and charge at 4.20V, causing the battery to form a surface charge of 4.2V. As the surface charge is absorbed the true battery voltage decreases to 4.18V, and at rest 4.15V.

Edited February 19, 2021 by WI_Hedgehog

[Chriull]

6 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

How can this be? Well, as the battery terminal voltage approaches the charge cutoff voltage (such as 4.20V for a 1S battery) the charge slows down. If the charge voltage was 4.20V, the battery would form a surface charge of 4.2V and stop charging. As the surface charge dissipated the true battery voltage would be 4.18V (or something similar). Therefore, the charge voltage for 4.2V is something higher, say 4.4V and the current cutoff is set at some percentage of the charge current, related to the charge voltage.

This effect can also be seen nicely in the "(almost) standard charge graph" of the ncr18650ga (cells used for veteran?) from https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh (Red) UK.html 

Charging is performed with 1A ~0.3C and stopped at ~0.1C. Cell voltage settles within some half hour/hour to a bit below 4.2V.

If the chargery charger really has some smart fast charging mode, that uses higher charge voltage than 4.2V per cell this would be an explanation for premature charge input cut off - as each EUC BMS cuts of once any cell reaches 4.2XV!

So such a mode should will not work with any EUC, not only Veteran!

[WI_Hedgehog]

I'm wrong, the Chargery reportedly uses 4.20V as do other EUC chargers. Simple, cheap, light, and fairly safe. Fast--no, but "faster."

From the information I've seen I would guess the Veteran BMS does seem to stop the charge cycle to check the battery state and if the battery test comes back "sane" the BMS continues charging the battery, which works fine with a standard power supply that doesn't care about the lack of current draw and continues supplying power as needed. 

The Chargery, from the manufacturer's site, seems to be a smart charger in the respect that when the charger detects output current has fallen below a certain setting it stops the charge to prevent trickle charging the battery, so a "sanity check" by the BMS is causing the Chargery to stop charging.

I have to thank @Chriull, @mrelwood, and @RagingGrandpafor continuing to help me understand how EUC chargers & BMS units work vs. what I'm used to. It's a constant "you've got to be kidding me" situation. I'm happy to lean though, and they've been great.

[Giffy]

On 10/27/2020 at 4:03 PM, EUC Addict said:

The first time I saw this charger was watching trip updates from Archee Jan Bloch as he rode his modified Gotway 3108W Monster from Boston to New York City and back, traversing 625 miles of continuous riding and charging.

I was just talking to him about this trip https://www.relive.cc/view/v8qkd4pXGKv

[OldFartRides]

Epic ! Looked like they did a lot of night riding. Less traffic ?

[Giffy]

@OldFartRides ya, I'm thinking so. Also, less competition at the EV charging stations. 

[EUC Addict]

The Chargery balances just fine. I use it all the time. However, for the Sherman it can't balance the battery due to the BMS. So only power supply mode works on the Sherman. That works fine for out on the ride, but you couldn't use it to balance your Sherman's batteries.

[Killian253]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:53 PM, EUC Addict said:

@RockyTop My dream is that the charger will eventually be built into the wheel. I know someone who is designing a seat for the Monster Pro that will house his 25 amp charger so he doesn't have to carry it in his backpack.

Did anything ever come from this. Thats a great idea! I'd love my charger in my seat on the monster pro.