eucWatch - Standalone band/watch

[mike_bike_kite]

I'll admit I found the set up of the watch a bit frustrating but that was my own mistake for using the wrong flasher. Still I wanted to list the initial issues I had - I'm pretty sure they're all easy to correct. I sound quite critical but actually I think you've done great work with this and I'm impressed you got the firmware to connect with so many wheels.

 

Initialisation of the watch: I'll admit I found the set up quite frustrating. Would it be possible to work with  the DaFlasher developer and get him to accept just one zip file. In the zip file there could be a test to make sure the watch model is compatible with the supplied firmware. It would also contain all the different steps that needed to be run and it would run them only if the previous step completed. I'd suggest he output the status of each step. I made a mistake at the start of the process and that could be avoided with more checks.

 

Smart watch or euc watch: There is functionality for a calculator, time alarms, note taking, a torch, an electronic insect repellent etc etc. These all take up valuable screen real estate and add to the complexity of the interface. I saw lots of images appear on screen but I had no clue what they were and it made things confusing. I think you should decide what you want the watch to do.

 

Simple things: I just wanted to connect to the wheel and go for a ride. There was only my Nikola+ in the "garage" but I couldn't get it to connect to the wheel. I tried pressing everything, swiping left, right, up and down but nothing would make it connect. 10 minutes later I left the watch behind and went for a ride.

 

A simple interface: is needed where users know what they can do on each screen. At one point I had a time shown to me, I tried moving it of off the screen and the hour changed - it turned out that I could alter the time by pressing the top or bottom half of the screen but this wasn't obvious. Just some little triangles under and above the hours and minutes would of made it more intuitive.

 

Mystery screens: I can swipe the screen in any direction but I never seem to know what screen I'll see next. I can learn it by memory but it's just not intuitive to me. Sometimes I need to swipe, other times I have to tap and other times I need to hold down. I just felt a little bit lost.

 

Full colour display: but you only seem to use grey and white. Also, when the speed was showing for the wheel the font wasn't very appealing. If this is the main part of the display then the font should look fantastic! Could you use a different font or perhaps use images for the digits and display these instead?

 

Too much info: Admittedly I'm fairly old so my eyes don't adjust quickly from looking at the road to trying to stare at a bunch of small numbers but I found the smaller items on the display difficult to read. I suspect this applies to anyone aged over 50. Personally I'd prefer just to have a large speed number and a background bar showing battery percentage - it could start green then change to amber and finally red. Maybe the user could add optional info like temp or time or current if their eyes were up to it.

 

Conversions: I still haven't found the screen that switches from kph to mph.

 

Turning off: I know you said the battery lasts for 65 days in standby but my watch sat on my desk vibrating away telling me it had lost connection to my wheel until it eventually it ran out of battery.

 

Turning on: I only have one wheel in the garage but it doesn't connect automatically to the one wheel I have set up in the "garage". This morning I tried going through the various screens including tapping and holding the Begode tab on the garage page but it wouldn't connect to the wheel or show that the wheel was moving. It did seem to recognise that the wheel was there though.

 

It might well be that the problems I'm having are because I need to re-flash the device - is that possible at this stage? It might also be that the screens and controls are much more obvious to others in which case I'll hang my head in shame  

[enaon]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I'll admit I found the set up of the watch a bit frustrating but that was my own mistake for using the wrong flasher. Still I wanted to list the initial issues I had - I'm pretty sure they're all easy to correct. I sound quite critical but actually I think you've done great work with this and I'm impressed you got the firmware to connect with so many wheels.

 

Initialisation of the watch: I'll admit I found the set up quite frustrating. Would it be possible to work with  the DaFlasher developer and get him to accept just one zip file. In the zip file there could be a test to make sure the watch model is compatible with the supplied firmware. It would also contain all the different steps that needed to be run and it would run them only if the previous step completed. I'd suggest he output the status of each step. I made a mistake at the start of the process and that could be avoided with more checks.

 

Smart watch or euc watch: There is functionality for a calculator, time alarms, note taking, a torch, an electronic insect repellent etc etc. These all take up valuable screen real estate and add to the complexity of the interface. I saw lots of images appear on screen but I had no clue what they were and it made things confusing. I think you should decide what you want the watch to do.

 

Simple things: I just wanted to connect to the wheel and go for a ride. There was only my Nikola+ in the "garage" but I couldn't get it to connect to the wheel. I tried pressing everything, swiping left, right, up and down but nothing would make it connect. 10 minutes later I left the watch behind and went for a ride.

 

A simple interface: is needed where users know what they can do on each screen. At one point I had a time shown to me, I tried moving it of off the screen and the hour changed - it turned out that I could alter the time by pressing the top or bottom half of the screen but this wasn't obvious. Just some little triangles under and above the hours and minutes would of made it more intuitive.

 

Mystery screens: I can swipe the screen in any direction but I never seem to know what screen I'll see next. I can learn it by memory but it's just not intuitive to me. Sometimes I need to swipe, other times I have to tap and other times I need to hold down. I just felt a little bit lost.

 

Full colour display: but you only seem to use grey and white. Also, when the speed was showing for the wheel the font wasn't very appealing. If this is the main part of the display then the font should look fantastic! Could you use a different font or perhaps use images for the digits and display these instead?

 

Too much info: Admittedly I'm fairly old so my eyes don't adjust quickly from looking at the road to trying to stare at a bunch of small numbers but I found the smaller items on the display difficult to read. I suspect this applies to anyone aged over 50. Personally I'd prefer just to have a large speed number and a background bar showing battery percentage - it could start green then change to amber and finally red. Maybe the user could add optional info like temp or time or current if their eyes were up to it.

 

Conversions: I still haven't found the screen that switches from kph to mph.

 

Turning off: I know you said the battery lasts for 65 days in standby but my watch sat on my desk vibrating away telling me it had lost connection to my wheel until it eventually it ran out of battery.

 

Turning on: I only have one wheel in the garage but it doesn't connect automatically to the one wheel I have set up in the "garage". This morning I tried going through the various screens including tapping and holding the Begode tab on the garage page but it wouldn't connect to the wheel or show that the wheel was moving. It did seem to recognise that the wheel was there though.

 

It might well be that the problems I'm having are because I need to re-flash the device - is that possible at this stage? It might also be that the screens and controls are much more obvious to others in which case I'll hang my head in shame  

thanks a lot, I will read it and answer in a bit, maybe it is a nice opportunity for a small manual  

[redfoxdude]

3 hours ago, enaon said:

this is the official bangle2 watch, it is now on kickstarter and the cost is not that bad. The only reason the first gen Bangle is not compatible with eucWatch, Is that the BT signal was so bad on it, that I did not even gave it a try

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gfw/banglejs-2-the-open-smart-watch/

I could have used the exact same model too (as the bangle2), it has been available for quite some time, but I didn't want to get in his way
My project uses 3 main puzzles, the work of atc1441 for bypassing security on DaFit watches to make them flashable, the work of Gordon (espruino) and the work of Fanoush (espruino drivers and special knowledge. )

I will too move to the nfr52840 platform sometime before Christmas I hope, and then eucWatch will work on the bangle2, so getting a bangle2 is a nice investment and a good way to say thanks to Gordon. At that time I will look at the possibility of making eucWatch an app for Bangle.js as well. 

Ah, price isn't too bad, plus it would support Gordon. I think I'll put myself down for one.  Exposed SWD is pretty sweet
Transflective display would be nice, tho the P8 is really not bad! Looking forward to the future of eucWatch. I've been loving it, and I really look forward to bridge! Cheers 

[enaon]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Conversions: I still haven't found the screen that switches from kph to mph.

 

Turning off: I know you said the battery lasts for 65 days in standby but my watch sat on my desk vibrating away telling me it had lost connection to my wheel until it eventually it ran out of battery.

 

Turning on: I only have one wheel in the garage but it doesn't connect automatically to the one wheel I have set up in the "garage". This morning I tried going through the various screens including tapping and holding the Begode tab on the garage page but it wouldn't connect to the wheel or show that the wheel was moving. It did seem to recognise that the wheel was there though.

But i will start with those so that you can use it. 

 

Connecting disconnecting to the wheel is done by long press on the side button. The issue you found with it staying on, was a bug, due to the rare case of one that sets up a wheel but do not complete the save procedure by long press to end the connection for the first time . I will fix it, but you will not come across it again anyway. (you can set the number of retries the watch makes in dash settings, it is the retry button)

in the garage, you just sellect the wheel that long press connects/disconnect from. 

 

conversions are in settings, settings are called from every face using a swipe-up gesture. you will find the dash conversions inside the "i" button on bottom center of settings, when settings are called from dash. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

so as far as usability goes, just long press and it will connect, long press and it will disconnect, no need to even turn the screen on first, it doesn't get any easier that this

Edited September 27, 2021 by enaon

[mike_bike_kite]

That seems to have fixed those issues! One small point is when converting the wheel from kph to mph, the alert speeds show with a decimal point ie a speed limit of 28.4 mph. I think you should round there. 

A helpful document (or even just an image) would show the various screens and how they interconnect. 

[enaon]

8 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

That seems to have fixed those issues! One small point is when converting the wheel from kph to mph, the alert speeds show with a decimal point ie a speed limit of 28.4 mph. I think you should round there. 

A helpful document (or even just an image) would show the various screens and how they interconnect. 

yes the conversions are not fully done yet, will finish them soon, thanks for noticing.

Yes, a manual is needed, the menus and the way it works have changed a lot using feedback from riders ( there is a telegram group called "euc.gr eucWatch testing", please use it if it is convenient), this is why it is not ready yet.

yet, I count on people like you, you remind me of the years I spend in your country, the harsh comments some of you guys like to make, really help on some occasions, and this is one of them

Edited September 27, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

18 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

That seems to have fixed those issues! One small point is when converting the wheel from kph to mph, the alert speeds show with a decimal point ie a speed limit of 28.4 mph. I think you should round there. 

 

just one more note, the menu you are talking about, the wheel alerts, is dual purpose, it sets the dash color coding ( blocks turn red over the limits) and also the haptic feedback. 

the color coding is always on, but the haptic feedback has to be enabled if one wants it, for every category of the alerts. To enable it, long hold on the button (amp.speed.temp,batt) to turn it blue. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by enaon

[mike_bike_kite]

Unusual. Why would anyone not want haptic feedback for an alert? or red for the alert numbers shown? does it go amber for when it's getting close to an alert?

Sorry for sounding a little harsh. I'm just trying to be helpful by listing the things I think you could look at. 

[enaon]

7 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Unusual. Why would anyone not want haptic feedback for an alert? or red for the alert numbers shown? does it go amber for when it's getting close to an alert?

Sorry for sounding a little harsh. I'm just trying to be helpful by listing the things I think you could look at. 

no need to apologize, I kind of enjoy it, I have missed it

there is a logic behind the ability to turn them ff, as they are not just Information about the limits, they have resolution and can inform of the amount over the limit. But sometimes/someguys wants just to ride, no feedback. 
also, on kingsong wheels, this menu is not for safety, the watch is also monitoring the variable limit in an internal alarm that cannot be turned off, so this menu is just info. 

but please be as harsh as you need from you point of view, I do not want to defend the usage case, I want to understand the way you want it to be, and maybe accommodate.

There is only one true problem you might face, having a nicola, this is BT signal range problems when outside. If the watch displays "far" when you test it, it is due to that, I hope not. 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

 

19 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

does it go amber for when it's getting close to an alert?

not really, the battery block is blue over 50, gray under 50% and red under the limit. 

speed is white, turns yellow over 30, and red over the limit, 

the rest needs a manual, I will make one

[mike_bike_kite]

11 hours ago, enaon said:

the rest needs a manual, I will make one

I used to run teams producing software for investment banks and we once decided to produce a fancy online manual that explained how every part of one of our systems worked. It was a magnificent manual and we were all quite proud of it. Out of interest I logged how many people used the page - it turned out only a couple of people had used it and, judging by the time they spent on the pages, they'd probably just clicked the link by error. I never created another manual. What is a lot better than a manual is a system that's so easy to use that a new user could immediately get going.

I suspect most developers don't like to share code but it's a shame you don't get together with @Pickelhauptwho wrote a similar system to yours but for Kingsong wheels. The UI on his system was very nice but it only interfaced with a few wheels. If you guys got together and used his front end with your backend software to read the wheel data then I suspect it would be a must have for all EUC riders. I prefer your use of the P8 watch as well. You could get together and just sell complete watches with the firmware already loaded on them. It would be particularly nice if you could have a watch that could easily fit onto the outside of a wrist guard. Anyway, just idly thinking out loud ... 

EDIT: A few extra small points I noticed:

• On the simple screen it shows the temp as 22.4C - this should just be an integer.
• Disconnecting and connecting to my wheel keeps turning the light on. I turn it off via the watch then it comes back on again next time I connect.
• The side LEDs came on when I connected the watch but it doesn't offer a way of turning them back off again. The light switch should turn off all lights and revert back to the users preferred setting for their lights when turned on.

Edited September 28, 2021 by mike_bike_kite

[enaon]

6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Anyway, just idly thinking out loud ... 

thanks for that, the project is on github, I wish @Pickelhaupt or anyone else could take over, if you remember I was pushing him to take a look at NRF, I even got the feeling of being rude. I agree about the manual comment, I have never read one in my life I believe, but I will gather some info because I am repeating my self too often lately. (like long press on side button to connect disconnect  )

I will never sell this watch, it is based on the wok of some amazing guys that helped free of charge, it is my testbed to play, I use it to control my knx automatization system, door access etc, it just got good enough for others to use if they like.  I also really like my menu system for this type of watch ( no libraries available for fancy staff, all drawing is done by hand), but I guess that is personal taste.

back on topic, I thought I had fixed the issues you report on gotways and light states, I will have a closer look. If you still have the kingsong, try it out on there to actually see how a watch works on a wheel I own, kingsong and the sherman are the ones I have tested, the rest are done remotely.

I will push a fix for gotway and let you now so you can test. 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

This video is made by Marcus, some menus are not in the same place, they moved because of accidental touches while riding, and some were added since time passed, but you will get the idea till a infographic is made. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by enaon

[mike_bike_kite]

That was a very helpful video! I'm away (in Greece actually) for the next week or two. I'll definitely test when I get back.

[Zwheeler]

Holy cow!

I bought this cheap watch from Ali: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002341428915.html

and installed the software according to the instructions and guess what: IT WORKS !

I am so flabbergasted that i'm lost for words. But: a million thanks to @enaon and everybody involved!

-Z-

Edited October 10, 2021 by Zwheeler

[dukky]

Hi @enaon, I ordered a couple of these Popglory P22 watches to try out for me and a friend https://www.amazon.co.uk/Popglory-Fitness-Pressure-waterproof-Smartwatch-Pink/dp/B089CZWB4C/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=p22%2Bpopglory&qid=1634124442&sr=8-3&th=1 as they looked like one your recommended (and P22 is better than P8 for the bluetooth signal?). So will report back tomorrow when they arrive.

I noticed from looking at the github repo that a lot of the code is just JS - would this be possible to run on the Bangle JS watch (which I understand is the same or similar hardware), or is the custom firmware important here too? I'll see how I get on with these ones on the eucwatch firmware, but it would be cool to just be able to set up with the JS files and not have to to the whole flashing process.

I'm also a software engineer myself, would I be able to write js files in a similar way to what you've done here and make my own faces/apps? Could I upload them through your web loader or is this something specific to just the EUCwatch stuff?

[enaon]

5 hours ago, dukky said:

Hi @enaon, I ordered a couple of these Popglory P22 watches to try out for me and a friend https://www.amazon.co.uk/Popglory-Fitness-Pressure-waterproof-Smartwatch-Pink/dp/B089CZWB4C/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=p22%2Bpopglory&qid=1634124442&sr=8-3&th=1 as they looked like one your recommended (and P22 is better than P8 for the bluetooth signal?). So will report back tomorrow when they arrive.

I noticed from looking at the github repo that a lot of the code is just JS - would this be possible to run on the Bangle JS watch (which I understand is the same or similar hardware), or is the custom firmware important here too? I'll see how I get on with these ones on the eucwatch firmware, but it would be cool to just be able to set up with the JS files and not have to to the whole flashing process.

I'm also a software engineer myself, would I be able to write js files in a similar way to what you've done here and make my own faces/apps? Could I upload them through your web loader or is this something specific to just the EUCwatch stuff?

nice, let me know when you install it. 

eucWatch is pure JavaScript, the project takes advantage of three pazzle pieces.

1. The work of ATC1441, this is daflasher and the part one of this guide, the hacking part. (so we can use capable watches, the bangle.js had bad BT antenna)
2. The work of fanoush, he creates the espruno images for the watches I use, extended MTU window to support inmotion, , wrote the screen/flash drivers, and a lot more. 

3. The work of Gordon. He is the man behing espruino, I use espruino's infustructure, the loader etc. 

The bangle.js. is espruino with additional c code special for the watch Gordon uses, extra functions etc. 

Now for compatibility, the bangle.js 1 is a no go, the BT  on it is  beyond poor, no point in trying. The Bangle.js 2 that just has just finished the kickstart campain, will be very capable, and eucWatc will run on it, if you bought one you did well.

You can program on the eucWatch the same way you do on any espruino, web based IDE is the simple way.
You can also use infinitime from Pinetime64 for the p22/p8 watch. the hardware is pinetime compatible, and you can use pinetime to run eucWatch too. 

By the way, I want to inform  that Next Gen NRF 52840 ( like the bangle.js2, more ram, faster screen bus) has landed thanks to the amazing work done from ATC1441 & Fanoush. Fanoush made it so that what would take months only took days, so Kospet Magic3, Kospet Rock (SENBONO C16 ), Colmi P16 are supported.
https://streamable.com/m9v8nb

Edited October 13, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

dp

Edited October 13, 2021 by enaon

[Tawpie]

Gordon ran out of bangle.js2 watch rewards on his kickstarter, says that all backers will get hardware but after that it's into the supply chain morass. He has a limited number of development (not waterproof) watches on his website, they're more expensive because of limited supply, but if you missed out and MUST have the latest and greatest, for a while at least, there's an option. (is that a run on sentence? seems to have a load of commas)

[dukky]

 

19 hours ago, enaon said:

nice, let me know when you install it. 

eucWatch is pure JavaScript, the project takes advantage of three pazzle pieces.

1. The work of ATC1441, this is daflasher and the part one of this guide, the hacking part. (so we can use capable watches, the bangle.js had bad BT antenna)
2. The work of fanoush, he creates the espruno images for the watches I use, extended MTU window to support inmotion, , wrote the screen/flash drivers, and a lot more. 

3. The work of Gordon. He is the man behing espruino, I use espruino's infustructure, the loader etc. 

The bangle.js. is espruino with additional c code special for the watch Gordon uses, extra functions etc. 

Now for compatibility, the bangle.js 1 is a no go, the BT  on it is  beyond poor, no point in trying. The Bangle.js 2 that just has just finished the kickstart campain, will be very capable, and eucWatc will run on it, if you bought one you did well.

You can program on the eucWatch the same way you do on any espruino, web based IDE is the simple way.
You can also use infinitime from Pinetime64 for the p22/p8 watch. the hardware is pinetime compatible, and you can use pinetime to run eucWatch too. 

By the way, I want to inform  that Next Gen NRF 52840 ( like the bangle.js2, more ram, faster screen bus) has landed thanks to the amazing work done from ATC1441 & Fanoush. Fanoush made it so that what would take months only took days, so Kospet Magic3, Kospet Rock (SENBONO C16 ), Colmi P16 are supported.
https://streamable.com/m9v8nb

Thanks for the explanation - my watch should be arriving today so I'll let you know how I get on with eucWatch. 

I was also interested in this line
 

Quote

 you can also use infinitime from Pinetime64 for the p22/p8 watch. the hardware is pinetime compatible

I had a quick google and couldn't find anything obvious on how to do this, or an example of someone having done so, but would this be roughly finding the right file to flash for infinitime, and flashing it using DaFlasher or similar? 

[enaon]

3 hours ago, dukky said:

I had a quick google and couldn't find anything obvious on how to do this, or an example of someone having done so, but would this be roughly finding the right file to flash for infinitime, and flashing it using DaFlasher or similar? 

correct, they both are Dafit devices.

waspOS has a howto for installing on a p8 and then moving to infinitile, so you could use that. Keep n mind that the accelerator on your p22 will not be the BMA most probably, so step counting will not work. 
https://wasp-os.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install.html#colmi-p8

Edited October 14, 2021 by enaon

[dukky]

So I got all set up with the P22 (specifically a P22C1) watch today, used it for a few hours just as a "smartwatch" setting up gadgetbridge etc before I got a chance to ride.

A few things I noticed while riding: (note I'm using the p8-testing apps, perhaps I should just be using the main p8 branch for stability?)

1. On my Nikola Plus, the amps are showing as negative, this also means the graphs at the top are backwards - not really a problem just wanted to let you know

2. When using the watch while riding, the screen seemed to turn off faster than I'd like (despite setting the screen timeout to over a minute), and not always reactivate when I lift my wrist, I would have to press the button sometimes

3. At some point, the touch screen and lift sensor just stopped responding (only button would turn on the screen), and I needed to reboot the device through the app loader website

Sharing the about page here if that helps 

 

 

Really appreciating everything else though, it's nice to be able to just glance at the watch rather than pull out my phone, the buzzing alarms for safety and the horn button

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by dukky

[enaon]

15 minutes ago, dukky said:

1. On my Nikola Plus, the amps are showing as negative, this also means the graphs at the top are backwards - not really a problem just wanted to let you know

2. When using the watch while riding, the screen seemed to turn off faster than I'd like (despite setting the screen timeout to over a minute), and not always reactivate when I lift my wrist, I would have to press the button sometimes

3. At some point, the touch screen and lift sensor just stopped responding (only button would turn on the screen), and I needed to reboot the device through the app loader website

1. go to settings from a dash app->i button on bottom>right-> change the amp to negative
2. are you sure you have set the timeout for a dash face? This menu is face aware, is sets only the timeout of the face that called settings. 

3. disconnect GB, turn off all but ( >.) BT options, and try again, those are memory problems, use it as a dash only for now.

 

stay at the testing, the other one has no p22 support, but do an install all again please, I was changing the way buzzer and timeouts work in the past hour, maybe you were caught in the middle. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by enaon

[dukky]

Thanks, I'll take note of the amps thing and make sure to use the testing installers - perhaps I didn't set the timeout for the other screen as I thought, and I'll make sure to turn of GadgetBridge while using it as a wheel dash.

I'll also do a full reinstall, should I do the 'update 32 apps' thing or Installer -> update all apps, is there a difference?