What is the doxing policy here?

[Mono]

2 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Tonight, a certain staff member abused his power and published a piece of private information I care about on this public forum.

That was totally unacceptable by @eddiemoy. Unfortunately, it is not the first time that this has happened in this Forum. @Administrators , maybe you should say something about

• your policy of doxing people
• why this is happening repeatedly in this forum?
• most importantly, what are you going to do to prevent this happening again in future?

@chrisjunlee, you were seemingly creating multiple accounts and talking under different names to yourself in this thread, see also here. This is a practice very much frowned upon and it was not done in good faith. Of course, under no circumstances it justifies doxing.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[Chriull]

14 minutes ago, Mono said:

That was totally unacceptable by @eddiemoy. Unfortunately, it is not the first time that this has happened in this Forum. @Administrators , maybe you should say something about

• your policy of doxing people
• why this is happening repeatedly in this forum?

Repeatedly? Seems i missed/overlooked some incidents?

If you have some links at the hand or  hints to topics/incidents could you pm me?

14 minutes ago, Mono said:

• most importantly, what are you going to do to prevent this happening again in future?

We have an internal discussion. Maybe setting up rules of conduct/precdure for us moderators? But as judging/regulating/limiting oneselves is prone to subjectivity this question/possible measures will be finally decided by @John Eucist.

14 minutes ago, Mono said:

@chrisjunlee, you were seemingly creating multiple accounts and talking under different names to yourself in this thread, see also here. This is a practice very much frowned upon and it was not done in good faith.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm personally for the "benefit of doubt" as long as something is not prooven/confirmed.

 

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Repeatedly?

I am somewhat shocked that your first reply is not "I am sorry what happened. Under no circumstances I support doxing and I will do all I can to prevent this from happen again".

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Seems i missed/overlooked some incidents?

IIRC it was a moderator who has left the Forum by now, but I could be wrong about that. He was suspicious about a newbies integrity and doxed their information to support his suspicion in a discussion. Actually pretty similar to the current case.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Maybe, maybe not. I'm personally for the "benefit of doubt" as long as something is not prooven/confirmed.

I don't see any wiggle room for interpretation here, but I am always happy to learn.

Two new members showed up in the thread, @moxxie from Vancouver and @haley from Pleasanton, complimenting @chrisjunlee for "all the value" and "positive energy" and "infectious enthusiasm" he provides. However, they were posting from the same IP address as @chrisjunlee from Seattle. I understand that there is a remote chance that @chrisjunlee asked one or two of his bodies to make these posts for him, but to me that is rather a distinction without a difference, in particular as they were misrepresenting their location to actively hide their relationship.

@Chriull, I am not quite sure why you wanted me to spell this out. Do you suggest that the doxed IP addresses were made up? Is there something relevant about IP addresses that I am missing? What other confirmation do you need?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[tessa25]

On other forums that I've been on staff would suspend the person that opened multiple accounts for a month. And state that it was done because of the multiple accounts without showing the ip addresses.

 

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

That was totally unacceptable by @eddiemoy. Unfortunately, it is not the first time that this has happened in this Forum. @Administrators , maybe you should say something about

• your policy of doxing people
• why this is happening repeatedly in this forum?
• most importantly, what are you going to do to prevent this happening again in future?

@chrisjunlee, you were seemingly creating multiple accounts and talking under different names to yourself in this thread, see also here. This is a practice very much frowned upon and it was not done in good faith. Of course, under no circumstances it justifies doxing.

Where you are posting from is public info.  Any look up tool will show who the ip belongs to.  This isn’t a secret.  If you are concerned with anyone finding out where you work, don’t post from your work computer and certainly don’t create multiple accounts from the same computer you used a month ago to do all your postings.  It is clear to me that he created the accounts to prop himself up.  He has yet to deny it.  The evidence is there.  The two new accounts come from an IP address that he used to post from a month ago.  Both the new accounts from the same IP.  If it isn’t against forum policy, it should.  It is just bizarre what just happened.  

[Mono]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Where you are posting from is public info.

How so?

[tessa25]

4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Where you are posting from is public info.

I think you see it because you are a moderator. We don't see it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by tessa25

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

How so?

IP's are public and you can look for who they belong to on dozens of websites.  IP's are registered with the company.  Are we the only ones to see the IP of the post?  

[tessa25]

Just now, eddiemoy said:

Are we the only ones to see the IP of the post?  

Yes

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, tessa25 said:

I think you see it because you are a moderator. We don't see it.

Ah, didn't now that piece, i thought everyone saw the IP.

[Mono]

3 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

IP's are public

How so are the link between any poster and their IP public?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[eddiemoy]

Just now, Mono said:

How so?

I guess I was mistaken regarding the IP being visible to everyone.  I think it should be.  Maybe we would have less of the one person multiple account activity.  Most people post from their home, their phone, it is a general pool of IP's not specific to your location.  If you are posting from work, that is your problem.  I do think that IP should be included in the post like how we see it as moderators. 

[Mono]

16 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Ah, didn't now that piece, i thought everyone saw the IP.

Why do you think your post that included the IP addresses was removed?

13 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I guess I was mistaken regarding the IP being visible to everyone.  I think it should be. 

You really should not be a moderator. You neither seem to have the basic technical expertise nor any reasonable notion of privacy. 

FYI, what you did is probably even illegal. Please sit with the other @Administrators and @John Eucist and sort this out!!

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[eddiemoy]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

 

You really should not be a moderator. You neither seem to have the basic technical expertise nor any reasonable notion of privacy. 

FYI, what you did is probably even illegal. Please sit with the other @Administrators and @John Eucist and sort this out!!

again, ip's are not private.  they are in every email you send.  every post you do.  it isn't illegal to lookup someones ip which are public domain.  those who don't want anyone to know their ip need to use proxies.  but i don't want to teach too much on this. 

[Mono]

16 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

again, ip's are not private.

again, IPs are private!

Quote

they are in every email you send.  every post you do.

and they remain disclosed only to those who receive the email or administer the post. That does not give the receiver or administrators the right to publish them on the internet. If I send you my home address, I don't give you implicite permission to publish this address on the internet.

Quote

 it isn't illegal to lookup someones ip which are public domain.

true, you can legally look up the information about an IP address, but it is most probably not legal to publish someone's IP address, that is, publicly link this person to their IP (or physical) location. Any physical address "is public", it is still illegal to publish the address of any specific person without their consent.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[Chriull]

 

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I am somewhat shocked that your first reply is not "I am sorry what happened. Under no circumstances I support doxing and I will do all I can to prevent this from happen again".

I used my little time in the morning to hide the leaking post, start a moderator discussion and get a short overview of the situation. But yes, such words would have shown social and emotional competence, which are not always my biggest asset.

1 hour ago, Mono said:

IIRC it was a moderator who has left the Forum by now, but I could be wrong about that. He was suspicious about a newbies integrity and doxed their information to support his suspicion in a discussion. Actually pretty similar to the current case.

Thanks. I do remember faintly? 

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I don't see any wiggle room for interpretation here, but I am always happy to learn.

...

This are all strong hints, taken together "very strong". But it's not an suffucient evidence. 

Could be workers in the same company giving their home state, students buddies in the same appartment sharing an internet connection, etc...

1 hour ago, Mono said:

@Chriull, I am not quite sure why you wanted me to spell this out. Do you suggest that the doxed IP addresses were made up? Is there something relevant about IP addresses that I am missing? What other confirmation do you need?

No, neither of this. I justed wanted to state that's it's very very probable as it looks but not proven (for me).

48 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

On other forums that I've been on staff would suspend the person that opened multiple accounts for a month. And state that it was done because of the multiple accounts without showing the ip addresses.

Something that seems to be missing in the forum rules. But should be common sense that a ban is to come if one misuses a system.

[Arbolest]

@eddiemoy

I don't usually speak up in this kind of discussion, so please take what I'm about to say seriously.

Eddie... If I asked you what you home address is, would you be willing to post it in this thread? (Please don't actually post it, I don't care and don't want to know...)

What about the home address of your parents? Or your Siblings?

What about the address of the school your child goes to?

What if someone found a post that you or your loved ones made online somewhere, scraped the IP address from it, used one of your apparently beloved public look-up tools, then posted the physical address and other attached information online? I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would be singing the same tune right now.

I don't know or care whether it was illegal or not, but what you did yesterday was wrong. Period. And you know it. And so does everyone else who has been made aware of it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Arbolest
replaced "spouse" with "Siblings"

[eddiemoy]

13 minutes ago, Mono said:

again, IPs are private!

and they remain disclosed only to those who receive the email or administer the post. That does not give the receiver or administrators the right to publish them on the internet. If I send you my home address, I don't give you implicite permission to publish this address on the internet.

true, you can legally look up the information about an IP address, but it is most probably not legal to publish someone's IP address, that is, publicly link this person to their IP (or physical) location. Any physical address "is public", it is still illegal to publish the address of any specific person without their consent.

 

IP's are not exact location like physical addresses.  They are just who they belong to.  The company can choose to break up the IP as they choose and use it where they choose.  

@Arbolest, see above.

Edited October 11, 2019 by eddiemoy

[Mono]

2 minutes ago, Chriull said:

I justed wanted to state that's it's very very probable as it looks but not proven (for me).

The question remains: what would be sufficient proof then?

@Chriull, the much more pressing question is however: one of your administrators seems to have no issue whatsoever to dox IP addresses. What are you going to do about this?

[Mono]

6 minutes ago, Arbolest said:

I don't know or care whether it was illegal or not, but what you did yesterday was wrong. Period. And you know it.

The problem though is: I am not sure at all that he does know, or understand, or care. It doesn't look like it at all to me.

[Mono]

2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

IP's are not exact location like physical addresses.

Even if this were always true, so what? Funnily enough though, you did post the screenshot of an exact physical address based on the IP.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mono

[atdlzpae]

26 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

IP's are not exact location like physical addresses.  They are just who they belong to.

@eddiemoy Yes, they are not exact. However, now we know where he works. He is the only person who unicycles to home every day at 5pm. And thus everyone determined enough can easily find his real address.

 

I know you meant well, you thought you were just providing a piece of evidence. But yes, by every objective standard you disclosed a quite sensitive piece of information to the public.

The correct response is: I am sorry, I've learned my lesson, I'll never disclose  IP's again.

You had good intentions and you did a great job catching the accounts. Just please prove to us that you're able to learn from mistakes.

Edited October 11, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Chriull]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

The question remains: what would be sufficient proof then?

For example "confronting" the members with this hints and asking them to explain their situation and in case "proove" their "identity". As afair one offered by disclosing some other of his social media accounts to the mods.

But i am not by now available to "dig myself" into this topic...

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

@Chriull, the much more pressing question is however: one of your administrators seems to have no issue whatsoever to dox IP addresses.

Yes - at least @eddiemoy had no issues, especially as he was not aware of this info beeing only for moderators.

I'd bet that he won't post any ip's anymore after seeing the disconsent of members.

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

What are you going to do about this?

As written i started the internal discussion - were i stated my opinion/"believe" that this ip adresses are just private moderator information not to be made public. I hope this gets "approved" - we'll see and keep you informed.

9 minutes ago, Mono said:

So what? Funnily enough though, you did post the screenshot of an exact physical address based on the IP.

This was just possibe by a reverse ip lookup and a company having registered its domain with this (?static?) ip address. With the whois(/?dns?) entry an adress is registered (nowadays also "possible" to have the registration service provider registered and not the own address). But the company name and the state/city gives already all information...