King Songs's general 1st batch problems of the last 1-2 years?

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

What were the 1st batch problems which were worth mentioning and how were they solved (If at all!) by King Song and/or the dealer?

How long does it usually take until errors are fixed and the 2nd batch arrives at the dealer?

Background to the question is:

I had since one week the 16X in my shopping cart (eunicycles.eu) for about 18xx,xx €.

Now it costs 2.217,70 €, because the pre-order price is expired.  I wanted to wait for the NY demo feedback.

Now I am no longer sure that I have to buy the 1st batch at list price because I don't have a dealer in Germany to handle complaints easily. I know, if nobody would buy the 1st batch, no errors could be detected. If I had a dealer nearby, I wouldn't worry about buying the first series at list price. 

 

[Guest PogArt Artur]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

What were the 1st batch problems which were worth mentioning and how were they solved (If at all!) by King Song and/or the dealer?

How long does it usually take until errors are fixed and the 2nd batch arrives at the dealer?

Background to the question is:

I had since one week the 16X in my shopping cart (eunicycles.eu) for about 18xx,xx €.

Now it costs 2.217,70 €, because the pre-order price is expired.  I wanted to wait for the NY demo feedback.

Now I am no longer sure that I have to buy the 1st batch at list price because I don't have a dealer in Germany to handle complaints easily. I know, if nobody would buy the 1st batch, no errors could be detected. If I had a dealer nearby, I wouldn't worry about buying the first series at list price. 

 

That's something to be considered - the first batch.

I have never thought about it, but it's obvious there might appear undiscovered issues to be sorted out afterwards...

Good point.

 

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

What were the 1st batch problems which were worth mentioning and how were they solved (If at all!) by King Song and/or the dealer?

How long does it usually take until errors are fixed and the 2nd batch arrives at the dealer?

Background to the question is:

I had since one week the 16X in my shopping cart (eunicycles.eu) for about 18xx,xx €.

Now it costs 2.217,70 €, because the pre-order price is expired.  I wanted to wait for the NY demo feedback.

Now I am no longer sure that I have to buy the 1st batch at list price because I don't have a dealer in Germany to handle complaints easily. I know, if nobody would buy the 1st batch, no errors could be detected. If I had a dealer nearby, I wouldn't worry about buying the first series at list price. 

 

lift sensor issues, weak handles, wheel burnt out from being turned on during transport, some had an insane vibration issue while trolleying.. probably more that i cant think of.. of course firmware issues as well.. probably at least a couple months if they are discovered and reported en masse very quickly.. 16x i could foresee motor issues or pedal issues since those are both new for the 16x but not too likely... usually you just get unlucky and get a lemon because they havent perfected the manufacturing of it yet, not like any of these affected every wheel.. probably if anything firmware issues which wouldnt make a difference if you waited as thankfully ks wheels you can just update the fw easily yourself.. everything else is pretty much down pat by now so i wouldnt expect there to be any issues besides those

[mrelwood]

The 18L (not sure for XL) has been having it’s fair share of issues with the trolley handle lift recognition, causing the firmware to get stuck resulting in a shaking wheel or even an unresponsive wheel with the motor getting hot and requiring a partial disassembly and a battery disconnect.

That said, most users haven’t had those issues.

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The 18L (not sure for XL) has been having it’s fair share of issues with the trolley handle lift recognition, causing the firmware to get stuck resulting in a shaking wheel or even an unresponsive wheel with the motor getting hot and requiring a partial disassembly and a battery disconnect.

That said, most users haven’t had those issues.

i think the XL from day 1 solved all issues that the L was having initially.. i dont believe there has ever been a revision or any problems reported about the 18 XL in general

[Unventor]

@buell47 First of I think you should contact https://www.1radwerkstatt.de I know @US69 recommend those a lot. Their website do not always reflect shop stock as well. 

That said I got a KS18L from first batch last summer. I had a few issues. I think from batch 3 and forward these seems to be rooted out.

• Headlamp died, got solved by shipping wheen back to dealer (whom now seems to be out of business)
• First complaint about trolley handle locking mechanism, should have been sorted (many got stems v2, or they only olied it I can't say for sure)
• Trolley stems locking mechanism broke later, bought new Stems V3 from a different dealer, self paid and serviced: works fine.

Then I have added Jason pedals too works great. (I bought those too from the same place I placed my KS16X order at). 

Now I didn't have any issues with wheel lockup like some others have had. That is the works issue to get solved imho. Firmware update have sort of reduced the impact, but I am not sure is there is a real fix for it. Some how it seems the KS18XL got it sorted out. 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Unventor

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

What were the 1st batch problems which were worth mentioning and how were they solved (If at all!) by King Song and/or the dealer?

16b were capacitor legs burning and too thin axles

16s i cannot remember any probs (maybe the handle? Mine worked and works fine)

18s ? None?

18(x)l the lift sensor

All this probs just were some "small" patches - not too much customers affected?

Once there was also afair some firmware problem with some lightning pattern, so that the whole wheel got stuck?

Quote

How long does it usually take until errors are fixed and the 2nd batch arrives at the dealer?

For the Ks16b quite fast a new motherboard version came out (16c) and mine was replaced after the cap problem.

The 18(x)l lift sensor prob somehow took forever (at least it felt like) - i still don't know what this was and how or if the solved it. It just got "quiet" about this topic - so somehow KS must have solved this?

Quote

Now I am no longer sure that I have to buy the 1st batch at list price because I don't have a dealer in Germany to handle complaints easily. I know, if nobody would buy the 1st batch, no errors could be detected. If I had a dealer nearby, I wouldn't worry about buying the first series at list price. 

You considered 1radwerkstatt? Although they don't have it announced on their website, i would asdume they will have it, too.

Buying a first batch wheel from any manufacturer always bears some risk, but normally not too bad?

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

58 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@buell47 First of I think you should contact https://www.1radwerkstatt.de I know @US69 recommend those a lot. Their website do not always reflect shop stock as well. 

Thanks... I forgot about the company again.
Already with my first search for an EUC (Inmotion V8) I have stumbled with my Google search not over this company.

Somewhere later I read about it here in the forum, but forgot it again. Their website is probably not google optimized and is therefore badly found with the standard search terms.

I just called and they are already waiting for the 16X. The price is unfortunately not known yet, but they sound trusting. But they will offer it as soon as it is available.

Scooterhelden.de where I bought the V8, don't want to offer the 16X yet.

 

[US69]

3 hours ago, buell47 said:

Thanks... I forgot about the company again.
Already with my first search for an EUC (Inmotion V8) I have stumbled with my Google search not over this company.

Somewhere later I read about it here in the forum, but forgot it again. Their website is probably not google optimized and is therefore badly found with the standard search terms.

I just called and they are already waiting for the 16X. The price is unfortunately not known yet, but they sound trusting. But they will offer it as soon as it is available.

Scooterhelden.de where I bought the V8, don't want to offer the 16X yet.

 

I can higly recommend Chris from 1radwerkstatt!!!

You will have the best Service and the best repairshop at Hand with him, no doubt!

And yes, the 16X is ordered allready and will be sent to him when they are produced.

Scooterhelden would actually get the KS wheels from Chris....so their Price cant be better :-) 

 

@Chriull actually listed up the Problems very nice...he forgot to Mention the 14d/s series, where i dont know About any Problems.

In General, since the 2017 14S, 16S , 18S "S Series" board Quality got really good. Unfortunatly the 18L with the first 84Volt version had some hick-ups, which where out the world in the following Batches.

Since the mentioned 2016->16b Problems with the caps there have never been issues concerning safety, as Chriull said, just more minor Details.

 

I am personally very optimistic for the first 16X Batch....as the mistakes from 18L/XL which mainly where handle sensor/trolley related, will not be repeated.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by US69

[meepmeepmayer]

7 hours ago, buell47 said:

I had since one week the 16X in my shopping cart (eunicycles.eu) for about 18xx,xx €.

Now it costs 2.217,70 €, because the pre-order price is expired

I specifically asked the guy if it would get more expensive because the "low" 1800€ price confused me. He said nothing that it was a preorder price! I only got this:

Quote

I can't give you answer about changing the price. We don't know what will happend in the future.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I thought the same thing because it was always more expensive somewhere else. I also didn't see that the price was a pre-order price.

[travsformation]

14 hours ago, Chriull said:

The 18(x)l lift sensor prob somehow took forever (at least it felt like) - i still don't know what this was and how or if the solved it. It just got "quiet" about this topic - so somehow KS must have solved this?

I have a 1st batch 18XL with the lasted firmware and the lift sensor is still an issue (I've recalibrated it at least 20 times using the KS app to no avail). In my case, it recognises being lifted only about 1 in 5, and on the other hand, often thinks it's being lifted when it's leaning against the wall (side pad touching the wall, not the handle), which causes it to beep, switch off the gyroscope for a split second, then straighten itself up again, moving slightly forward or backward. Sometimes it'll do it every couple of seconds until I get sick of it and switch off the wheel. It can get fairly annoying...

But at least it isn't serious like the battery over-heating problems that have been reported. 

All the same, it's something that should have been addressed by now IMO, but probably hasn't because users have grown used to  it and aren't making enough noise. @US69any idea if this is on the to-do list? 

Also worth noting, although firmware updates are easy and can be done by the user, they're not always fail proof and have caused problems for some users (in part because of the terrible app and not always easy to decipher instructions...) 

Edited June 18, 2019 by travsformation

[DragonFZ]

I'm banking on King Song company reputation of putting out quality products. I'm hoping they have systems in place, not to repeat past mistakes. For instance, a YouTuber mentioned the KS axles are thicker for the bigger wheels. So, I'm thinking that was a lesson KS learned.

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

I'm banking on King Song company reputation of putting out quality products. I'm hoping they have systems in place, not to repeat past mistakes. For instance, a YouTuber mentioned the KS axles are thicker for the bigger wheels. So, I'm thinking that was a lesson KS learned.

I trust KS on the hardware & manufacturing front too, although there have been some QC issues with the latest batch of 18XL's in the form of misaligned tires, uncentered shells and stripped screws:

They could also improve the cooling systems used in their larger wheels (although there have been no instances of fried boards or MOSFETs; sorry Nikola fans ) 

In my case, it's the software-related stuff that I've encountered issues with. 

Having said that, I love my 18XL and think that despite a few minor hiccups (which are annoying particularly because they could be easily addressed but are being ignored), it's an excellent, tough and very well built wheel. Excluding a few very rare cases, the issues users have encountered aren't deal breakers and IMO, KS continues to make solid wheels. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by travsformation

[US69]

6 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

I'm banking on King Song company reputation of putting out quality products. I'm hoping they have systems in place, not to repeat past mistakes. For instance, a YouTuber mentioned the KS axles are thicker for the bigger wheels. So, I'm thinking that was a lesson KS learned.

Thats actually something adressed since the "S series"...so thicker axles are allready there since About 2 years.

11 hours ago, travsformation said:

I have a 1st batch 18XL with the lasted firmware and the lift sensor is still an issue (I've recalibrated it at least 20 times using the KS app to no avail). In my case, it recognises being lifted only about 1 in 5, and on the other hand, often thinks it's being lifted when it's leaning against the wall (side pad touching the wall, not the handle), which causes it to beep, switch off the gyroscope for a split second, then straighten itself up again, moving slightly forward or backward. Sometimes it'll do it every couple of seconds until I get sick of it and switch off the wheel. It can get fairly annoying...

But at least it isn't serious like the battery over-heating problems that have been reported. 

All the same, it's something that should have been addressed by now IMO, but probably hasn't because users have grown used to  it and aren't making enough noise. @US69any idea if this is on the to-do list? 

Actually the trolles sensor issues have been adressed and been fixed in the later Versions of the 18L...The sensor itself should work at 95% all the time.

You might answer your seller for changing the sensor or work over the sensor...but i dont know how he handles such cases/warranty, and i have no advise Rights whatsoever to your seller.

 

So yeah, KS is learning from this mistakes ….i can promise that Things won't repeat again. That goes for Hardware....on the Software side/app there is still a lot toDo, can only agree!

[travsformation]

15 minutes ago, US69 said:

6 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

 

12 hours ago, travsformation said:

 

You might answer your seller for changing the sensor or work over the sensor...but i dont know how he handles such cases/warranty, and i have no advise Rights whatsoever to your seller.

 

Good idea, thanks. So you can confirm that this is an actual issue with the first batch of 18XL? That would help a lot in getting my distributor to replace it (he does offer warranty, yes!).

Thanks! 

Edited June 19, 2019 by travsformation

[meepmeepmayer]

Newer 18(X)Ls have the mechanical sensor from the 16S v2 instead of the stupid tension thing. So all future enough buyers don't need to worry.

[US69]

14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Newer 18(X)Ls have the mechanical sensor from the 16S v2 instead of the stupid tension thing. So all future enough buyers don't need to worry.

Thats on Point!