Gotway Monster Received and Oh My God

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Elementary,  my dear Steven.  I'm a fan of the TV series, Sherlock, starring Benedict Cumberbatch who uses the term "Mind Palace" on several occasions.  A simple Google search reveals that mind palace has a deeper meaning related to the method of loci.  Furthermore if you expanded the Wikipedia section under "In popular culture, subsection Television" you will find it mentioned in the TV series Sherlock which verifies that my link is correct. 

[MaxLinux]

On 4/26/2017 at 0:39 AM, TremF said:

Purple seems cool.

I think all three (blue, red, purple) look great in the photos and videos I've seen!

[MaxLinux]

On 4/23/2017 at 3:31 PM, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

The Monster is so heavy that it basically self destructs if it does a summer salt and lands on the outer edges.

This would be apparent after only a few drop tests. This is very deficient by Gotway.

[edwin_rm]

After testing all three ride modes, I found that the Leisure (Soft) ride mode significantly increases the maneuverability of the wheel. Turning and etcetera becomes much more natural. For such a massive, heavy wheel... this is important. ?

[Marty Backe]

37 minutes ago, edwin_rm said:

After testing all three ride modes, I found that the Leisure (Soft) ride mode significantly increases the maneuverability of the wheel. Turning and etcetera becomes much more natural. For such a massive, heavy wheel... this is important. ?

Every time I try a softer mode on my Monster I feel like I'm going to fall off when over-leaning during my starts. It's so slow to start that it feels like there's a delayed reaction (I guess there is actually) to the wheel moving. I should practice more, making my starts a bit slower. Because otherwise the softer modes on the Monster do seem more comfortable.

[edwin_rm]

51 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Every time I try a softer mode on my Monster I feel like I'm going to fall off when over-leaning during my starts. It's so slow to start that it feels like there's a delayed reaction (I guess there is actually) to the wheel moving. I should practice more, making my starts a bit slower. Because otherwise the softer modes on the Monster do seem more comfortable.

The trick is to put one foot on the front tip of that pedal and the other foot on the back tip of the other pedal, to accelerate from 0. This method is to circumvent the need to lean.

(sidenote: That method is a must for riding Solowheel branded euc, as those are extremely soft and lean like crazy!)

 

[houseofjob]

9 minutes ago, edwin_rm said:

The trick is to put one foot on the front tip of that pedal and the other foot on the back tip of the other pedal, to accelerate from 0. This method is to circumvent the need to lean.

(sidenote: That method is a must for riding Solowheel branded euc, as those are extremely soft and lean like crazy!)

Way better, just sit on the front. You'll never complain about Monster acceleration ever again!

[edwin_rm]

I performed a lift test with my Monster fully charged, these were the results (tilt back and first two beeps were all disabled):

-80% power beeps start at 58 km/h (36 miles/hour)

-100% power (cutoff) is reached at 77 km/h (48 mi/h)  #HolyShit!

I was balancing the unicycle between two objects and was able to increase and decrease its speed at will all the way up to the cutoff point, no problem. Of course, while riding other factors will apply, such as wind resistance and rider weight.

[Marty Backe]

Almost 2-years later and I'm still enjoying the Monster that I bought from Speedyfeet

 

[FreeRide]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Almost 2-years later and I'm still enjoying the Monster that I bought from Speedyfeet ....

 

Looks like you're giving a lot of love to all the wheels that have seen a lot of downtime in the few months. I was surprised that Tishawn's main wheel was the Monster and not the MSX. 

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, FreeRide said:

I was surprised that Tishawn's main wheel was the Monster and not the MSX. 

Why?

Tishawn is all about speed, so nothing goes faster than his 100V Monster, not even the MSX. Plus, soft mode is tuned way too hard on the MSX, as he rides as soft as possible (which I've picked up from him and learned to love, as no other mfr does soft mode better than Gotway).

[Mrd777]

9 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Why?

Tishawn is all about speed, so nothing goes faster than his 100V Monster, not even the MSX. Plus, soft mode is tuned way too hard on the MSX, as he rides as soft as possible.

I agree, the 100volt monster is a beast of a wheel and by far runs best in soft mode. 

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, Mrd777 said:

I agree, the 100volt monster is a beast of a wheel and by far runs best in soft mode. 

Lol, jealous! (I'm still holding out for a re-design, which I'm feeling is riiiiight around the corner~ )

It's only soft mode for me on any Gotway!

Getting the hang of the Gotway soft mode was game-changing for me, in squeezing every inch of performance out of those wheels, in pumping the acceleration, etc. I used to b*tch about the severe pedal dip Gotways have on turns, but now I realize that this is intentional: part of their firmware and tuning which allows for their unique soft mode.

I tried every other mfr's soft modes, but they're just not the same: the pedals don't dip/swing freely or deeply enough on forward push; and they all have a dip/swing on the backwards-braking lean, instead of locking in place, like how Gotway soft mode does, which allows you to immediately push forward again on Gotways.

Really hope they stop tuning their future wheels so stiff/tight like they did on the MSX tho.... 

[FreeRide]

43 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Why?

Tishawn is all about speed, so nothing goes faster than his 100V Monster, not even the MSX. Plus, soft mode is tuned way too hard on the MSX, as he rides as soft as possible (which I've picked up from him and learned to love, as no other mfr does soft mode better than Gotway).

Well at the time i didn't know he liked soft-mode, also quite different and a surprise, but learned that as well. Didn't say i didn't understand it now, just that i was surprised by it.  

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, FreeRide said:

Well at the time i didn't know he liked soft-mode, also quite different and a surprise, but learned that as well. Didn't say i didn't understand it now, just that i was surprised by it.  

Hmmmm.... sorry, still don't understand the surprise tho.

The performance on the MSX is impressive, yes, but other major aspects of it (minus the new and great CYT tire) are less than stellar IMHO, particularly when focusing in on ergonomics and comfort:

• [again] MSX soft mode is super hard and foot-fatiguing over prolonged rides
• the recycled MSuperV3 shell side does not proportionally re-adjust the side height, in relation to the now higher tire and pedals, so that the pads end up hitting even lower in your shin than the originally designed MSuperV3 (feeling almost at your ankles), less than ideal, especially when you want to anchor your outside turn leg on high speed turns.
• the MSV3/MSX layout with batteries high up make the overall component weight distribution noticeably top heavy.

Sure, I can ride the MSX fine, but given a choice, give me a Monster over the MSX any day!.... even the MSuperV3 series that the MSX was based off of, rode way more comfortably and effortlessly.

 

I understand why the MSX became so popular, but I think many owners are just blindly in love with it's excellent performance, thus excusing/overlooking it's poor ergonomics/comfort setup, and subconsciously compensating in their riding style accordingly.

Plus, I think many don't even give Gotway soft mode a chance (as I was in that same boat before), thinking their foot fatigue is only due to things like the dihedral pedal V and side pads.

I've tested this theory on my MCM5, which does a good variety of super hard mode and ideal Gotway soft mode (plus has no side pads), and same thing, the MCM5 on hard mode was way too fatiguing.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Lol, jealous! (I'm still holding out for a re-design, which I'm feeling is riiiiight around the corner~ )

It's only soft mode for me on any Gotway!

Getting the hang of the Gotway soft mode was game-changing for me, in squeezing every inch of performance out of those wheels, in pumping the acceleration, etc. I used to b*tch about the severe pedal dip Gotways have on turns, but now I realize that this is intentional: part of their firmware and tuning which allows for their unique soft mode.

I tried every other mfr's soft modes, but they're just not the same: the pedals don't dip/swing freely or deeply enough on forward push; and they all have a dip/swing on the backwards-braking lean, instead of locking in place, like how Gotway soft mode does, which allows you to immediately push forward again on Gotways.

Really hope they stop tuning their future wheels so stiff/tight like they did on the MSX tho.... 

Have you ever been able to get any mode other than 'hard' out of the Z10? I've slid that slider around but haven't noticed anything 

I also really like the Gotway soft modes - mostly for cruising.

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Hmmmm.... sorry, still don't understand the surprise tho.

The performance on the MSX is impressive, yes, but other major aspects of it (minus the new and great CYT tire) are less than stellar IMHO, particularly when focusing in on ergonomics and comfort:

• [again] MSX soft mode is super hard and foot-fatiguing over prolonged rides
• the recycled MSuperV3 shell side does not proportionally re-adjust the side height, in relation to the now higher tire and pedals, so that the pads end up hitting even lower in your shin than the originally designed MSuperV3 (feeling almost at your ankles), less than ideal, especially when you want to anchor your outside turn leg on high speed turns.
• the MSV3/MSX layout with batteries high up make the overall component weight distribution noticeably top heavy.

Sure, I can ride the MSX fine, but given a choice, give me a Monster over the MSX any day!.... even the MSuperV3 series that the MSX was based off of, rode way more comfortably and effortlessly.

 

I understand why the MSX became so popular, but I think many owners are just blindly in love with it's leading performance, thus excusing/overlooking it's poor ergonomics/comfort setup, and subconsciously compensating in their riding style.

Plus, I think many don't even give Gotway soft mode a chance (as I was in that same boat before), thinking their foot fatigue is only due to things like the dihedral pedal V and side pads. I've tested this theory on my MCM5, which does a good variety of super hard mode and ideal Gotway soft mode (plus has no side pads), and same thing, the MCM5 on hard mode was way too fatiguing.

You know, I don't think I've ever tried the soft mode on the MCM5 - I'll try that this week as I add it into this weeks wheel rotation 

[houseofjob]

23 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Have you ever been able to get any mode other than 'hard' out of the Z10? I've slid that slider around but haven't noticed anything 

I also really like the Gotway soft modes - mostly for cruising.

Yes, I think the difference in Z modes is not as pronounced as on something like the MCM5's diverse range of modes (not many are), but I think I do feel some difference.

But the frustrating part is that the Z totally has the promise of semi-replicating a Gotway soft mode, setting hardness to the softest (4?) and turning off pedal-assist, but the damn calibration ruins it because the current Z firmware (at least to me) is always slightly leaning backwards (which I now automatically compensate for without thinking, positioning my feet more forward on the pedals),..... plus hitting any bump will temporarily push the pedal level even more backwards, almost like tiltback, super unpleasant 

Because of this, I've been relegated to just leaving my Z on hard mode. (unfortunately, I did not appreciate the joys of soft mode back when we had the pre-prod Z10 on beta firmware )

 

21 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You know, I don't think I've every tried the soft mode on the MCM5 - I'll try that this week as I add it into this weeks wheel rotation 

OMG, it's like cutting knife through butter when pushing the pedals downwards on soft mode-d MCM5 acceleration,... plus that effortless downswing coupled with the MCM5's 14" super torque is almost like cheating, you must try it! 

 

[Alex_from_NZ]

I was reading through these latest posts on this thread and was going to ask what soft mode was, but reading further.  And please correct me if i am wrong.. its how much the pedals angle with pressure?  Ie, dip and shit..

I have only just got comfortable on my first wheel (the z10) and am on like day 5 of actually riding the thing, but i played with the settings on the slider and couldnt notice anything myself (perhaps due to my inexperience) so have left it on 0.. 

Is the soft mode like putting the slider to 4?  If so i must try it again.. I thought it was more akin to responsiveness when i played with it i must admit, hence leaving it to 0 (what i thought would be the most responsive..) 

I do get sore feet though and have tonight started using a hard soled hiking boot to alleviate the foot ache which has helped, but this soft mode idea is intriguing.

I do notice the brake assist though, downhill for sure it helps me keep under control.  Turning it off i fly down the driveway and have to push the unit quite forward like a snowboard stop almost to slow her down.  With brake assist its much more mellow for me.

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

I was reading through these latest posts on this thread and was going to ask what soft mode was, but reading further.  And please correct me if i am wrong.. its how much the pedals angle with pressure?  Ie, dip and shit..

I have only just got comfortable on my first wheel (the z10) and am on like day 5 of actually riding the thing, but i played with the settings on the slider and couldnt notice anything myself (perhaps due to my inexperience) so have left it on 0.. 

Is the soft mode like putting the slider to 4?  If so i must try it again.. I thought it was more akin to responsiveness when i played with it i must admit, hence leaving it to 0 (what i thought would be the most responsive..) 

I do get sore feet though and have tonight started using a hard soled hiking boot to alleviate the foot ache which has helped, but this soft mode idea is intriguing.

I do notice the brake assist though, downhill for sure it helps me keep under control.  Turning it off i fly down the driveway and have to push the unit quite forward like a snowboard stop almost to slow her down.  With brake assist its much more mellow for me.

Soft mode is like the Z10 brake assist, but all the time, including forward and backward. It's much more pronounced on Gotway wheels, particularly older wheels.

On the Z10 it's much too subtle for me. Like you, I really can't notice a change in handling. On Gotway, it's like, whoa!

[houseofjob]

@Marty Backe @Alex_from_NZ 

So I tried 4 soft mode on my Z10 this morning, and you guys are right, the difference is miniscule/insignificant. While I do feel a sliver of more push-down angling to my Z pedals on 4, it's barely noticeable.

Pretty sure the old pre-prod beta firmware (or maybe even the initial production firmware(?)) was not like this, having more give on 4 / soft mode, as I remember me & @Tishawn Fahie switching modes when swapping the unit.

Perhaps the harder tuning, increased performance tuning of the current Z firmware sacrificed the hardness modes(?)

Hope they fix this.

 

8 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

And please correct me if i am wrong.. its how much the pedals angle with pressure?  Ie, dip and shit..

Yes, the different modes are about how much resistance the pedals have when being pushed down, as well as how far the pedals are allowed to be pushed down from center.

The Gotway approach to soft mode (minus MSX) is to allow you to, on forward motion, swing the pedals downwards to the ground from level balance (aka 'pedal dip'), with the deepest swing / angling downwards, when compared to other manufacturers' soft modes, with very little resistance from doing so.... Gotway hard mode is the opposite, pedals stay as level as possible, maximum resistance from deviating from level. On braking / backwards motion, Gotway soft mode is stiff and resistant as well. This combination gives you the ability to pretty aggressively pump the acceleration going forward, with minimal physical effort (think an exercise bike or stair machine on level 1).

Unfortunately, the Z, with current firmware setup, comes nowhere near approaching this feel.

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

@Marty Backe @Alex_from_NZ 

So I tried 4 soft mode on my Z10 this morning, and you guys are right, the difference is miniscule/insignificant. While I do feel a sliver of more push-down angling to my Z pedals on 4, it's barely noticeable.

Pretty sure the old pre-prod beta firmware (or maybe even the initial production firmware(?)) was not like this, having more give on 4 / soft mode, as I remember me & @Tishawn Fahie switching modes when swapping the unit.

Perhaps the harder tuning, increased performance tuning of the current Z firmware sacrificed the hardness modes(?)

Hope they fix this.

 

Yes, the different modes are about how much resistance the pedals have when being pushed down, as well as how far the pedals are allowed to be pushed down from center.

The Gotway approach to soft mode (minus MSX) is to allow you to, on forward motion, swing the pedals downwards to the ground from level balance (aka 'pedal dip'), with the deepest swing / angling downwards, when compared to other manufacturers' soft modes, with very little resistance from doing so.... Gotway hard mode is the opposite, pedals stay as level as possible, maximum resistance from deviating from level. On braking / backwards motion, Gotway soft mode is stiff and resistant as well. This combination gives you the ability to pretty aggressively pump the acceleration going forward, with minimal physical effort (think an exercise bike or stair machine on level 1).

Unfortunately, the Z, with current firmware setup, comes nowhere near approaching this feel.

 

I don't remember the pre-production Z10 being much different, but I didn't spend much time experimenting. Thanks for confirming that it's not my imagination.

I remember reading about the original Ninebot's as having this wide range in pedal stiffness. I was expecting the same with the Z10. There haven't been any firmware updates in awhile. I wonder if any further updates will arrive?

I tried the soft mode on the MCM5 this morning. It is rather nice - nicer than on the bigger wheels, probably because of all the pent up power in this little wheel. On my V3s+ you can over-lean the wheel when in soft mode (when starting from a stop) because it doesn't have enough power to get you out of the soft-mode-hole.

Thanks for prompting me to go soft on the MCM5 

[houseofjob]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't remember the pre-production Z10 being much different, but I didn't spend much time experimenting.

Hmmmm.... I could also be wrong about this, as I wasn't as hip to soft mode back then.

 

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I remember reading about the original Ninebot's as having this wide range in pedal stiffness.

Yeah, but this was mainly the 16" NB1 series. The A1/S1/S2 I wanna say didn't even have a settings adjustment.

 

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

There haven't been any firmware updates in awhile. I wonder if any further updates will arrive?

Hope there are.

FW updates came semi-frequently during the heyday of the 16" NB1, albeit including the Firmware-drop-pocalypse 

 

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I tried the soft mode on the MCM5 this morning. It is rather nice - nicer than on the bigger wheels, probably because of all the pent up power in this little wheel. On my V3s+ you can over-lean the wheel when in soft mode (when starting from a stop) because it doesn't have enough power to get you out of the soft-mode-hole.

Thanks for prompting me to go soft on the MCM5 

If only we could have the option of Gotway soft mode on all wheels!

 

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Hmmmm.... I could also be wrong about this, as I wasn't as hip to soft mode back then.

 

Yeah, but this was mainly the 16" NB1 series. The A1/S1/S2 I wanna say didn't even have a settings adjustment.

 

Hope there are.

FW updates came semi-frequently during the heyday of the 16" NB1, albeit including the Firmware-drop-pocalypse 

 

If only we could have the option of Gotway soft mode on all wheels!

 

I've been zooming around on the MCM5 in soft mode today. Really fun, and it does make for a comfortable ride

Also, for others that may read this, soft mode will get you the best gas mileage because the motor isn't spending so much energy keeping the pedals rigid via the hard modes.

[LanghamP]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:35 PM, Marty Backe said:

Also, for others that may read this, soft mode will get you the best gas mileage because the motor isn't spending so much energy keeping the pedals rigid via the hard modes.

While I have stated numerous times that soft mood is more energy efficient, I think I have been telling people falsely. That is, given the same riding style hard may be more energy efficient than soft.

To verify hard uses less energy than soft, ride your wheel with both settings over the same level ground. You'll notice hard uses less energy than soft, and I think I figured out why.

The analogy is holding up a dumbbell straight above your head versus to your side; notice you have to expend more energy keeping the dumbbell to your side than straight up. In other words, @Marty Backe calling the "get out of the hole" is measurable. Keeping the dumbbell (the metal ball and not the rider) balanced above you takes less energy than nearly dropping the dumbbell then expending great energy to try to keep it almost level.

However, ride a wheel soft then ride it hard, and the soft setting uses less energy per mile, and it's not by a little bit but a lot.

So here we have WheelLog showing less watts on hard setting versus soft, but when you actually ride the wheel we have the softer setting using less energy than the hard setting!

Whoops, so what is happening here?

The answer, obvious now but not then, is the soft setting makes riders be much slower in their acceleration whereas hard encrourages hot dogging. Drive a hard wheel like it's soft and you'll get great mileage, but of course no one does that (nor should you). It's impossible, an affront to fun.