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Kingsong 14D CUT-OUT !!!!


Scott Henley
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14 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I'm no expert, but I believe there could be a tipping point where they maybe just give in?

That would be the first time i hear something like this...

Nope, this isnt a Mosfet fail, imho. they burn if they fail and are defect then. 

Would be nice if Scott gets us updated, if he ever gets to know the reason for this.

I would set my money to caps fail, as this is the perfect scenario, wire broken or burned or caps loose.

Wheel works, but cant handle power surges....had a faceplant on this also!

 

Edit: while it now comes to my mond that we are talking about a 14d and not 14s...with only 32cells and 2parallel systems. Might also be a cell defect...leading to extrem voltage drop...

Edited by KingSong69
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Sorry to hear about the accident! Hope that lip is healing.

I got my 14D around the same time as you (few weeks after I think), and I haven't had any cutouts. However, I just noticed today that the battery won't charge above 78% and just contacted Jason about it.

Hopefully not a faulty batch of wheels or something similar...

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33 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

MOSFETs are funny things sometimes.  With additive damage they may still appear to function fine under normal riding conditions, but the next stress to them can push them over the edge.  Or so I've read, seen, and theorized about.  Some people have posted photos of MOSFETs starting to melt, but the wheel still functions.  I'm no expert, but I believe there could be a tipping point where they maybe just give in?

If you're not familiar with Choochtech/Colton, he's the wacky stabby guy from Denver who bought an Msuper from SpeedyfeetUK, went flying over some skateboard ramps, had a wheel failure, and then complained to Ian that he sold him a defective product and made a big stink over it.  I can't find the link, but I think @KingSong69 posted the pdf link showing the details.

Jason goes above and beyond the call of duty so I'd hate to see him taking a financial hit for something that may not necessarily be a product defect.  It certainly could be a product defect - who knows.  I'm just saying that you both seem to be good guys so keeping aware of all the other factors can be a good thing.  :innocent1:

I wish these wheels were more robust so people could crash them, smash them, and go all EUC Extreme on them on a day to day basis without failure.  Sometimes though we have to realize they aren't quite there yet so we have to temper our expectations and ride accordingly.

Just to be clear , I know I ride my wheel harder than most . But at the same time I also make sure to take great care of it . Before this incident there wasn’t a single blemish on the wheel . And even after this accident it still looks almost new . In no way am I blaming Kingsong , Ewheels or the wheel itself . Though I am a bit hesitant to say it’s entirely the fault of my riding style . I’m not nor do I plan to ask for a free wheel or any such nonsense . Cause of failure is still a mystery though. And yes , Jason is a great guy who always goes above and beyond the call of duty. I’d never dream of trying to take advantage of that kindness. 

Edited by Scott Henley
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12 minutes ago, King Llama said:

Sorry to hear about the accident! Hope that lip is healing.

I got my 14D around the same time as you (few weeks after I think), and I haven't had any cutouts. However, I just noticed today that the battery won't charge above 78% and just contacted Jason about it.

Hopefully not a faulty batch of wheels or something similar...

Thank you. Hope you get your issues sorted out as well. That’s a very strange problem . Has it been changing normally up until recently ?

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28 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

That would be the first time i hear something like this...

Nope, this isnt a Mosfet fail, imho. they burn if they fail and are defect then. 

Would be nice if Scott gets us updated, if he ever gets to know the reason for this.

Always can count on KingSong69 to tell me I'm wrong.  :lol:  I could have sworn seeing someone posting some photos of their MOSFET with a melted casing, but the wheel was still working.

@Scott Henley - I wasn't saying you were trying to do what Chooch did so don't get me wrong.  It's just that everyone's riding style does vary from "Old Grandma" style (me) to "Evel Knieval" style (EUC Extreme) and a few in between.  Hard braking and sudden power spikes can lead to MOSFET failures as well, and some may not realize that.  I'm not saying it is a MOSFET failure in your case, but I just wanted to put that out there as an example of what can occur.

Didn't mean to imply any impropriety was occurring here.  Just wanted to point out a possible cause for failure when riding these wheels aggressively.

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8 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Always can count on KingSong69 to tell me I'm wrong.  :lol:  I could have sworn seeing someone posting some photos of their MOSFET with a melted casing, but the wheel was still working.

@Scott Henley - I wasn't saying you were trying to do what Chooch did so don't get me wrong.  It's just that everyone's riding style does vary from "Old Grandma" style (me) to "Evel Knieval" style (EUC Extreme) and a few in between.  Hard braking and sudden power spikes can lead to MOSFET failures as well, and some may not realize that.  I'm not saying it is a MOSFET failure in your case, but I just wanted to put that out there as an example of what can occur.

Didn't mean to imply any impropriety was occurring here.  Just wanted to point out a possible cause for failure when riding these wheels aggressively.

Absolutely! My reply may have been a bit “shouty” lol. But I didn’t mean for it to come off like that . I have heard of one other rider (who I won’t name ) that rides aggressively to the breaking point and then turns and points fingers at everything and everyone except himself. Hearing things like this really bother me . So I get what you’re saying !

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Actually, I think Scott posted the picture of a motor wire that melted part of a MOSFET casing. That's not a MOSFET problem though.

Yes . I did . And no it wasn’t really a “mosfet problem “ . The pcb was fine . Changing the routing of the wires would probably remedy any issue . 

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19 hours ago, Scott Henley said:

On my way to work today my KS14d dropped me twice ! The first time was very minor . Low speed coming off my patio. Took a ~3” ledge at maybe 5mph and boom . The wheel lost its balance , fell forward and tossed me off . I picked it up and it righted it self immediately. Thinking it was a fluke or that maybe I hit a divot or something I continued on to work . Going ~15mph on a slight down hill I encountered another small dip . I was ejected forward again , this time hitting the pavement HARD!! . My lip is swollen like a golf ball. Ribs bruised . It’s bad ! Again picked up the wheel and it again righted itself immediately. I limped very very slowly to work . Battery was full and I wasn’t at max speed btw. 

Scott, very sorry to hear about your injuries and bruises, and I am glad that @Jason McNeil is coming through to help you with the wheel problem. You are in good hands!

Not saying that you did anything wrong or doubting your story in any way, but just to make sure, let me ask you , is it possible that the “wheel cut out” was the perception , but maybe you lost your balance as the wheel went over the dip? What’s your weight? Are you an experience rider? What diameter wheel did you have prior to ks14d? Did yhe wheel beep at the moment the wheel went over the dip? Did you see the dip prior to hitting it ( seeing the obstacle allows us to prepare the body for getting over it and we instinctively lean in a certain way/ accelerate/brake to take go over the irregularity the right way). You are saying it was an inch deep, how wide was it? 

Again, please forgive me for asking these questions, I don’t assume that anything that happened was your fault , but just to rule out the human error theory,  I though I’d ask. 

Edited by Cloud
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6 hours ago, Cloud said:

Scott, very sorry to hear about your injuries and bruises, and I am glad that @Jason McNeil is coming through to help you with the wheel problem. You are in good hands!

Not saying that you did anything wrong or doubting your story in any way, but just to make sure, let me ask you , is it possible that the “wheel cut out” was the perception , but maybe you lost your balance as the wheel went over the dip? What’s your weight? Are you an experience rider? What diameter wheel did you have prior to ks14d? Did yhe wheel beep at the moment the wheel went over the dip? Did you see the dip prior to hitting it ( seeing the obstacle allows us to prepare the body for getting over it and we instinctively lean in a certain way/ accelerate/brake to take go over the irregularity the right way). You are saying it was an inch deep, how wide was it? 

Again, please forgive me for asking these questions, I don’t assume that anything that happened was your fault , but just to rule out the human error theory,  I though I’d ask. 

No worries , we have never interacted on here so I’m just going to assume this line of questioning is due to that fact . I ride daily . Forwards, backwards , one legged , MTB trails , tricks etc ....this was in no way rider error . I know what a cut out feels like. Not to mention the fact that it happened twice . The gyro cut out . Meaning it quit balancing fore and aft , dumping me on my face the first time at low speed so I could literally feel the wheel go limp . I assumed it was a fluke so continued on .

There was no depth it’s not that I got caught and “lost my balance “ . The big fall leading to my injury was on a sidewalk . One “tile “ is just slightly higher than the other . Just a 1” drop . Yes I saw it . This is my route to work everyday , I’ve ridden this exact path at least 400 times . One of my favorite things to ride is single track MTB trails . Roots, holes , jumps , burms and so on . I have never once lost control of my wheel . This was my very first “accident “ ever . (Aside from when I was learning ) . 14 is my daily driver . But I’ve had 16, and 10” wheels also . And am awaiting a new 18” msuper with Tesla motor in the next week . The wheel quit balancing . I don’t know why but I do know it wasn’t that I “lost my balance “ . I’ve owned KS and GW alike . I have never been afraid of a wheel until now. 

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Thanks @Scott Henley. Yes, I’ve been away from the forum for over a year , otherwise I probably would have known you are very experienced. Obviously not a human error. As far as I remember, kingsong wheels normally don’t glitch the way you described, this is why I thought it could be something else. Historically, in the past, there have been several reported cut outs , some related to a fuse burn out, and the wheel wouldn’t just turn back on and operate normally after. 

I can understand how something like this can shatter your faith in the wheel. I am sure Jason will help you out! Feel better!

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14 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Thanks @Scott Henley. Yes, I’ve been away from the forum for over a year , otherwise I probably would have known you are very experienced. Obviously not a human error. As far as I remember, kingsong wheels normally don’t glitch the way you described, this is why I thought it could be something else. Historically, in the past, there have been several reported cut outs , some related to a fuse burn out, and the wheel wouldn’t just turn back on and operate normally after. 

I can understand how something like this can shatter your faith in the wheel. I am sure Jason will help you out! Feel better!

It’s quite alright . No offense was taken . And you’re absolutely right ! This is very out of the ordinary for KS . My stance had always been that the 14D was like a tank . I never had any doubts in it . Now my whole world has turned on end . Lol but I mean it just dropped me on the spot both times . No warning , no beeps , no wobble just bam, self balancing just quit . 

Well it’s a pleasure to meet you @Cloud. Are you back on the forum for good now ? ? 

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13 minutes ago, Scott Henley said:

 Well it’s a pleasure to meet you @Cloud. Are you back on the forum for good now ? ? 

Pleasure is all mine! I hope to stay here for good now, but I thought as much 2 years ago and that didn’t hold true ( . I know I’ll make the effort though! I am glad that after such a long absence they didn’t take away my moderator rights. This forum is a great bunch of people, all slightly insane but in a good way !))

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14 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Pleasure is all mine! I hope to stay here for good now, but I thought as much 2 years ago and that didn’t hold true ( . I know I’ll make the effort though! I am glad that after such a long absence they didn’t take away my moderator rights. This forum is a great bunch of people, all slightly insane but in a good way !))

Hahahaha. Very true . So let’s hear it ...what wheel(s) do you have ??? 

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53 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

The voices in my head don't agree with you about that...   :shock2:

My voices are telling me that your voices don’t know what they are saying. 

Lol..I don’t know how It happened, but it looks like the thread is hopelessly derailed) I should nominate myself as the 2nd world’s thread derailer. ( I mean I will never be as good as @Hunka Hunka Burning Love )

Edited by Cloud
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