help please my ks-18s only charging to 90%

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

groan! i give up. got a new brick charger from china today after burning up the two kingsong chargers using the charge doctor. so the ks-16s went to green light on the brick and it reads 92%. 

i think both of my kingsong wheels have a defective voltage meter on their boards. i seem to remember when i finally got around to riding them and installing an app to read voltage capacity, the 16s was at 92% and the 18s at 90%. the weird thing is, using the duo charge doctor, before i smoked my chargers, i finally got the 16s to read 100% and had the ks18s coming up to 93%.

i'll bet money the 18s will be at 90% when i pull it off the charger.

screw it. i'm not gonna sweat it anymore, it is what it is. 

And my KS14S had a voltage related failure (replaced the board). Maybe this is KingSong's weak spot - their power subsystem part of the control board. I know that the Gotway batteries are managed and charged independent of the control board whereas everything goes through the control board on the KingSong wheels.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

And my KS14S had a voltage related failure (replaced the board). Maybe this is KingSong's weak spot - their power subsystem part of the control board. I know that the Gotway batteries are managed and charged independent of the control board whereas everything goes through the control board on the KingSong wheels.

u know, i bought all these wheels at about the same time but because of the hurricane and then i got into my cattle working season and didn’t wanna chance being hurt, i waited a long time before messing with them. unlike most people it seems i put air in the tires first thing, then put them on charge and stored them in a room temperature environment. when i got around to screwing with them, the ks16s i remember was like 92%. i thought, well, it must have discharged just sitting around. but what is really weird is how i got itto read 100% once and thining ok, i must need two chargers and the charge doctor. and then smoking both kingsong chargers. it’s weird i’d get two that don’t read right, but i see other people have had that issue. i’m gonna put the 18s in the garage once i hit 200 km on it which shouldn’t be long and then i’ll crack it open and check the battery packs with a meter. i’ve been wanting to do that anyway because Bob was all puppy when i got it and i had to put the batteries in myself because my chinese vendor shipped them separately and i might want to tidy up the wiring a bit. 

the ks18s is on my new brick charger now($20 delivered from china as nice as kingsongs, probably better)and i’m gonna let it stay green for awhile and then let it sit overnight and see what it reads in the morning. 

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

And my KS14S had a voltage related failure (replaced the board). Maybe this is KingSong's weak spot - their power subsystem part of the control board. I know that the Gotway batteries are managed and charged independent of the control board whereas everything goes through the control board on the KingSong wheels.

seeing how it seems we are all beta testers without much or no support from the manufacturers, i’d love to see a sticky topic under each brand like “known issues” or “problems”. this particular activity is very forum dependent. i can’t see myself continuing to ride these things without checking the forum constantly to see if somebody was having a problem with a wheel. it’s called self preservation.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

seeing how it seems we are all beta testers without much or no support from the manufacturers, i’d love to see a sticky topic under each brand like “known issues” or “problems”. this particular activity is very forum dependent. i can’t see myself continuing to ride these things without checking the forum constantly to see if somebody was having a problem with a wheel. it’s called self preservation.

That's a very good idea

[novazeus]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

That's a very good idea

i’d love that. if u own that brand of wheel, just look at one spot and people that have had problems and solved them, would know where to go to help people. who knows, maybe the manufacturers would take time from their busy days to check that topic occaisionally.

btw, i couldn’t wait, and sure enough, the ks18s shows 90% charge. gotta be mis- reading the voltage. 

[Master Blaster]

 Nova,

so I tend to follow recommendations here in regards to charging my two King Song wheels to around 80% most times and then just about every tenth charge I will do a 100% top off charge with the stock charger to balance the cells. My last go around on my 18S I want a bit too long before doing a top-off charge and the result was an over night charge that only got it up to around 92% when the charger was showing a green light for several hours. So I ran the wheel around the block a couple times and got the charge down to around 87% or so and then threw it back on the charger (after a little cool off time) then  I got it back up to 100%. So I kinda suspect that one or more individual cells may have drifted a little lower than others and needed a little more balancing to get back up to snuff.  This is just my intuition with no real concrete testing behind my findings, however, I believe if you just burn a little charge off your batteries (no need to take them way down) and keep throwing it back on the charger and let it balance for a few hours, you should be able to gradually get the overall charge back up to 100% eventually.

Althought Litium Ion batteries only have so many charge cycles in their lifetime before they begin to lose capacity, they do seem to like some “exercise” (charge, discharge cycle). It may be a King Song thing (idk) but as I cycle and exercise the batteries, I do get better results, and the best thing to do when you get your new Inmotion Wheel is throw it on the charger and get a good, solid, full balance charge on the system right off the bat to get the most out of your battery. As far as your King Songs go, just keep at it and I’ll bet you’ll start to see higher charger ups as you get cells back up to snuff.

i don’t see how you could have cooked those chargers with the Charge Dr unless you screwed with the Charge Dr settings and got something out of whack with it through messing up the settings, they can be more complicated than you realize if you don’t follow the instructions properly.

Good luck with your batteries in the future for Bob’s sake........he sure is a beautiful pooch, he is way more handsome than you.  ? ? ?

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

he is way more handsome than you. 

Bob is beautful and just as sweet. i’m lucky he’s my best friend. i think he think’s he’s everyones best friend.

[da_toni]

With my KS18A i have the same behavior with the original KS charger. It charges until 90%.

If i use another charger for excample an airwheel charger it charges till 100%.

but IMO it is better to not fully charge the batteries till 100% everytime...

[novazeus]

so after two nights of messenger chat with @Flora Yuan still no solution. on the battery reading 92% and 90% on the 16s and 18s, she said very unusual, engineer said you must have gotten two euc’s with a bad battery pack in each. so i said ask the engineer how i was able to get 100% charge using two chargers and the charge doctor duo on the 16s if the battery packs are bad? as far as my 16s being bricked, i guess i have to wait until kingsong gets around to fixing the firmware but no eta. looks like i’m gonna have to crack these wheels open and figure it out myself.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by novazeus

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, novazeus said:

so after two nights of messenger chat with @Flora Yuan still no solution. on the battery reading 92% and 90% on the 16s and 18s, she said very unusual, engineer said you must have gotten two euc’s with a bad battery pack in each. so i said ask the engineer how i was able to get 100% charge using two chargers and the charge doctor duo on the 16s if the battery packs are bad? as far as my 16s being bricked, i guess i have to wait until kingsong gets around to fixing the firmware but no eta. looks like i’m gonna have to crack these wheels open and figure it out myself.

 

Too bad you didn't buy Gotway - they don't have battery or charging issues   I can't remember exactly, but based on the story you're telling, you didn't buy these wheels from EWheels. Too bad, that may have saved you some aggravation.

Trying to find the bright spot in all of this - since you don't ride outside the ranch, does it really matter if you can't fully charge?

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Too bad you didn't buy Gotway - they don't have battery or charging issues   I can't remember exactly, but based on the story you're telling, you didn't buy these wheels from EWheels. Too bad, that may have saved you some aggravation.

Trying to find the bright spot in all of this - since you don't ride outside the ranch, does it really matter if you can't fully charge?

yeah i don’t need the range but it would be nice to balance the packs with a full charge every 20 charges or so. if kingsong, the manufacturer is clueless, idk if @Jason McNeil could help either. he could exhange both wheels if i bought from him i guess but shipping these things around ain’t cheap. i hope jason pays for return shipping but i doubt it. i’m gonna get my ninebot from him. hopefully kingsong will figure out why their firmware bricked my 16s so its more than a boat anchor. since hooking up two chargers with the charge doctor busted thru, i think jason’s 5amp will probably charge to 100%. now that i have a new $20 generic charger, i’m gonna play around with the charge doctor a little. i think i might be able to skin the cat another way(chinese expression). 

i don’t have medical insurance so i can’t really ride hotways. next year i get free old people insurance from the government. it will be 4 years september since i’ve seen a doctor for anything. pretty good for somebody that was suppose to be dead 4 years ago. kinda hate to have to get something fixed because a china wheel made in some sweat shop crapped out. i’m sure these wheel companies have at least one smart person in the company but if they are just assemblers like say dell computers, fuggetaboutit. i’ve got an alien laptop computer (dell) that was lkie $4700 in 2014 and dell was too stupid to fix it. i’m use to the tech companies being useless when u have a problem. 

 i’ve only tried two brands of wheels. segway and kingsong. segway’s marketing, packaging, software, finish etc etc is the better of the two. inmotion gets here tmrw. 

what i don’t understand with these wheel fanatics, is why when u have a problem with a product, sonebody that bought the same product gets all defensive, like they built it or something. for crying out loud, i’m over this redneck mentality of ford vs chevy. 

no face plants for me, yet. my terrain on pavement is pretty easy. if i face plant in the pasture, no biggie. too hot here to go this slow to wear all the protective gear u wear. if the inmotion and 10z will get the job done for me, i’ll fix these kingsong wheels and sell them. i have no control over their app/software people. 325 acres is too big to get around on by foot. i’ve done it but it’s really boring and time consuming. i’ve taken the tag off my jeep so it’s a haul Bob around dedicated ranch vehicle, but he doesn’t get exercise that way. i probably get 4 miles to the gallon going around the ranch. the more time i spend in the pastures, the less likely the coyotes will eat the new baby calves. that is my business. a cow calf operation. that’s why i got Bob. and i got the wheels for Bob and the coyotes. these are just tools for me. if i needed the write offs, i’d write off the wheels. if i weren’t doing what i’m doing, i would have never bothered with them. i’d rather be on a secluded beach or island or on my boat. gotta get a much bigger boat now because of Bob.

they’re fun, learning new things is always fun for me but i get bored quick. Bob is a challenge.

[novazeus]

still chatting with @Flora Yuanand she’s quizzing her “engineer“ again.

Edited May 9, 2018 by novazeus

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, novazeus said:

yeah i don’t need the range but it would be nice to balance the packs with a full charge every 20 charges or so. if kingsong, the manufacturer is clueless, idk if @Jason McNeil could help either. he could exhange both wheels if i bought from him i guess but shipping these things around ain’t cheap. i hope jason pays for return shipping but i doubt it. i’m gonna get my ninebot from him. hopefully kingsong will figure out why their firmware bricked my 16s so its more than a boat anchor. since hooking up two chargers with the charge doctor busted thru, i think jason’s 5amp will probably charge to 100%. now that i have a new $20 generic charger, i’m gonna play around with the charge doctor a little. i think i might be able to skin the cat another way(chinese expression). 

i don’t have medical insurance so i can’t really ride hotways. next year i get free old people insurance from the government. it will be 4 years september since i’ve seen a doctor for anything. pretty good for somebody that was suppose to be dead 4 years ago. kinda hate to have to get something fixed because a china wheel made in some sweat shop crapped out. i’m sure these wheel companies have at least one smart person in the company but if they are just assemblers like say dell computers, fuggetaboutit. i’ve got an alien laptop computer (dell) that was lkie $4700 in 2014 and dell was too stupid to fix it. i’m use to the tech companies being useless when u have a problem. 

 i’ve only tried two brands of wheels. segway and kingsong. segway’s marketing, packaging, software, finish etc etc is the better of the two. inmotion gets here tmrw. 

what i don’t understand with these wheel fanatics, is why when u have a problem with a product, sonebody that bought the same product gets all defensive, like they built it or something. for crying out loud, i’m over this redneck mentality of ford vs chevy. 

no face plants for me, yet. my terrain on pavement is pretty easy. if i face plant in the pasture, no biggie. too hot here to go this slow to wear all the protective gear u wear. if the inmotion and 10z will get the job done for me, i’ll fix these kingsong wheels and sell them. i have no control over their app/software people. 325 acres is too big to get around on by foot. i’ve done it but it’s really boring and time consuming. i’ve taken the tag off my jeep so it’s a haul Bob around dedicated ranch vehicle, but he doesn’t get exercise that way. i probably get 4 miles to the gallon going around the ranch. the more time i spend in the pastures, the less likely the coyotes will eat the new baby calves. that is my business. a cow calf operation. that’s why i got Bob. and i got the wheels for Bob and the coyotes. these are just tools for me. if i needed the write offs, i’d write off the wheels. if i weren’t doing what i’m doing, i would have never bothered with them. i’d rather be on a secluded beach or island or on my boat. gotta get a much bigger boat now because of Bob.

they’re fun, learning new things is always fun for me but i get bored quick. Bob is a challenge.

I was joking about Gotway. I know that brand is off the table for you.

You correct that Jason probably couldn't resolve it, but his better English might help in the troubleshooting department  But you're correct, he would probably provide a new wheel if it couldn't be resolved, and I'm pretty sure that Jason covers return shipping if it's a warranty problem. That's why people like his customer service. He's the Amazon of EUC dealers.

[novazeus]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I was joking about Gotway. I know that brand is off the table for you.

You correct that Jason probably couldn't resolve it, but his better English might help in the troubleshooting department  But you're correct, he would probably provide a new wheel if it couldn't be resolved, and I'm pretty sure that Jason covers return shipping if it's a warranty problem. That's why people like his customer service. He's the Amazon of EUC dealers.

nope.

”If the product is dead-on-arrival, for domestic purchases we will cover the shipping costs for returning it back us. International Customers will need to pay for the return shipping. For other warranty related repairs, we may ask the Customer to cover the shipping charges to & from our repair center in Tuscon, Arizona.”

if i had bought these wheels from jason i would have paid $800 more total  for both of them. like i told flora, at that price, i would have not bought kingsong wheels. 

flora’s engineer says “it’s strange” so obviously they don’t have a clue. if they don’t know, they don’t know.

my cheap segway wheels which is a total of $1700 delivered for four wheels, all work flawlessly.  same price for one 18s, $1700 delivered. mechanically fine, probably a glitch in their bms. hoping the higher amperage will blow past whatever shunting the cheap chargers. 

[US69]

On 5/6/2018 at 1:24 AM, Marty Backe said:

And my KS14S had a voltage related failure (replaced the board). Maybe this is KingSong's weak spot - their power subsystem part of the control board. I know that the Gotway batteries are managed and charged independent of the control board whereas everything goes through the control board on the KingSong wheels. 

That's not true btw...

Its both nearly identical systems. Batterys/Charging are managed by BMS. Then there is a voltage reader on the board which supports app/beeps/tiltback etc....

GW/KS nearly the same. Only difference is that the charge port goes on the S series goes first to the board having a reverse diode there.(For security reasons btw)..and then uses one of the power wires and one "only charging" wire to go to the BMS. So a KS battery pack only has 3 wires instead of 4. While The charging itself is completly controlled by the BMS....not the board.

The only wheels that differ here are IPS, which have BMS and PCB board in one piece....and Inmotion, which sends some more infos from the battery BMS to the board/app for diagnostics.

The failure here in this thread is a defect BMS or a defect Battery.( As about 92-93% is the charge rate where balancing kicks in its with most highest probably the BMS,and one of the several BMS systems of the wheel would be enough)  But i have told that in numerous occasions before to the thread OP. To find out the real culprit it needs to open the wheel instead of ..... ?

Edited May 9, 2018 by US69

[novazeus]

 

splain that lucy

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by novazeus

[kasenutty]

Is it all fixed? 

[fryman]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

 

splain that lucy

 

 

I think its the charger or app.  Can not believe you have (2) wheels with the same problem. On the 16S ; are all the green lights on?

Edited May 9, 2018 by fryman
added

[novazeus]

Just now, fryman said:

I think its the charger or app.  Can not believe you have (2) wheels with the same problem.

dude, i know, i’m jinxed. i had a brand new 2012 zo6 corvette, only 400 red ones built worldwide and mine stopped working at 425 miles and had to be flat bedded back to the dealer. and i was otw to a date with a hottie. 

the clue is this, i got the 16s up to 100% using two kingsong chargers and the charge doctor, so maybe the higher amperage blows past whatever the bms does to shunt voltage. kingsong engineers are clueless as well. they are baffled. i thought for sure somebody at kingsong would have run into this before, but no. 

ya, i know how to troubleshoot this but i’m gonna try to fix it without dissecting the wheel. i can always do that later. idk if it’s worth my time. i’ve got a $80k backhoe loader sitting out here doa because rats ate the starter disrupt wire and i need to solder in three patch wires. that takes priority over these wheels.

hell, i’ll be happy just to be able to use my 16s again when kingsong gets around to fixing their firmware update. it’s doa too.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, kasenutty said:

Is it all fixed? 

no. still same problem both kingsong wheels.

jason is getting his 5amp chargers ready to be shipped so i might try one of those. i’ve used three different brick chargers all with exactly the same results.

[fryman]

19 minutes ago, novazeus said:

no. still same problem both kingsong wheels.

jason is getting his 5amp chargers ready to be shipped so i might try one of those. i’ve used three different brick chargers all with exactly the same results.

I have that charger and works for me.  The amp reading on the charger and the app have not always matched up.

[novazeus]

ok. so after my wheel got bricked by kingsongs firmware update and thanks to three nights messenging @Flora Yuan we finally were able to unbrick my 16s, which also had a battery/voltage/shunting charge problem. so after unbricking the wheel using kingsongs engineer app, i was able to do the firmware update last night too. the charge on the wheel was reading 89%, using the brick charge alone i’d get a reading of 92% normally when the charger was finished. i had a suspicion that this battery problem was software related, that’s why i tried the update originally and kingsong pulled the plug on the servers evidently and my wheel bricked. so when i put it on the charger, it stayed red until i went to sleep and it had been on the charger 3+ hours already, so i had a feeling all this software related repair had fixed the battery issue, and sure enough it did! now i gotta see if this magic will work on my ks18s.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by novazeus

[novazeus]

when ur ahem “living” arrangements are like mine, euc’s become big exercise. i have a compound just outside my cargo container. i have a giant doggie door for Bob but no pedestrian gate, just two 4’ ladders adjacent it other on opposite sides of my 6’ high wood fence. so to get in the compound/cargo container it’s up a ladder, down a ladder every time. unfortunately i switched from att to tmobile after getting fios installed where it use to be in my uninhabitable old house and tmobile service barely works on the ranch even though i can see their tower from my road. so since i bricked my 16s outside trying to do the upgrade, to be safe i lugged it up and down the ladders into my cargo container where i have wifi. just did the same with the 18s. 

so one thing for certain the 16s has over the v10f is a few pounds lighter, and when ur climbing ladders with them, at 64 years old, that’s a big deal.

[novazeus]

ya, just redid my 18s. the voltage was reading 90% before(that’s as high as it would read after the light turned green on the brick charger) and now just from doing the upgrade, it reads 94%. i logically figured it was something to do with the bms software configuration and not bad batteries, or check charger voltage, or take the wheels apart and check battery pack voltages or run around the block and charge again etc etc etc, i appreciate ur advice forum members but don’t get ur panties in a wad if what ur suggestion is doesn’t logically compute in my brain, i’ll try anything if i don’t already know the answer, look at my cancer situation. like my doctors, kingsong the people that make the wheel were totally baffled also. it is what it is, i’m happy this minor little this planet problem is solved. might not fix ur wheel but it looks like it’s fixing mine. the bms/software configuration of protecting these battery packs were just a little overprotective and i would have Never been able to do a full charge every 20 cycles or so like the battery nerds suggest and as much cordless battery experience as i’ve had(cattle ranch) i try to do everything to preserve that battery because buying a whole new thing is cheaper than buying a battery usually. 

 so i’m happy, i hope @Flora Yuan is happy she doesn’t have to chat with me anymore, and i just wanted to share this and hopefully if ur like me and get two duds doing this same problem, there is hope.

 

[novazeus]

hmm? different controller version, i guess that’s normal. the 18s is on the brick charger now and it went to green immediately, so reading 94% the charger thinks it’s done because that is what the wheel is saying. either i need to do a re-update like i did with the ks16s or maybe, this time, running the battery down a bit will give the charger like a running start so it can blow past the protection. so getting closer. still not perfect, but i can certainly rule out many of the suggested repairs by forum members and the kingsong company.