help please my ks-18s only charging to 90%

[novazeus]

as i deduced, i was pretty sure the failure to register full charge was kingsongs hideous app. i ran down the ks-16s a little to like 83% if u can believe their crap. i was running ver 1.03 got a message about firmware update, of course it locked and didn’t progress so stop and started again, and then it said, firmware updated to ver 1.03 no need to upgrade. 

so i tried to charge it again with he same brick i’ve been using, and it’s still charging but i took a read, and it’s at 97% now. logic wins over knowledge always. if it quacks like duck etc. now maybe kingsong is tweaking the ks-18s app/firmware. i think kingsong is gonna stay a mom and pop with this degree of professionalism. i’m pissed they wasted all my time. jerks!

Edited March 1, 2018 by novazeus

[US69]

9 hours ago, Techos78 said:

I think it's not a bug. Now, KS wheels use signed current values. Old versions of WheelLog give huge values when the current is negative because msb is 1.

Then, when the current is >600, you have to subtract 655.35 Amperes to have good value. The power is simply the product voltage * current.

You have to upgrade WheelLog, last version is OK.

Its not only on wheellog, also in the original KS app, and as well in all other apps i used.

[Techos78]

52 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Its not only on wheellog, also in the original KS app, and as well in all other apps i used.

you need an application that can display negative currents. I saw a WheelLog that was recompiled, and there was no problem. It's just an hypothesis ... a bit off topic, sorry.

4 hours ago, novazeus said:

(...) it’s still charging but i took a read, and it’s at 97% now (...)

Very good news. I was worried because I had almost the same problem after 18 months on my ks16b (April 2016), impossible to charge beyond 63 V. I measured all the cells and I saw 15 times ~ 4,2 V and a cell (in fact a pair) at 0 V (ie in short circuit). In the ks16b, both packs are cascading (i.e. not in parallel), this is the first pack after the charge port that is dead.

In this old battery pack, there was no balancing component, and I really really hope that KS has now corrected this severe mistake.

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Techos78

[novazeus]

idk how these things work but i’m guessing the bms is firmware dependent? the ks-16s is up from 64.72 to 65.26 approx which computes to 92 to 95%. so it’s goind the right way. lot of work for a half volt.

i’m gonna screw with the 18s a little more and try to get it to replicate its spinning up when it topples horizontal. i gotta fix that. that big motor and big tire could be dangerous. get that sorted then crack it open, look for problems. fix it. close it up and put my pool float condom on it. gotta make it off road strong. i get really good one leg hold on it with the pad. too bad temperpedic(sp?)mattress pads aren’t tougher and cheaper, that would mold right to ur leg like glue, maybe too much tho.

Edited March 1, 2018 by novazeus

[Techos78]

On 24/02/2018 at 11:26 AM, Keith said:

(...)Finally one or more cells being short circuit and dragging the charge below 100% is VERY unlikely. Failing cells tend to go “leaky” not full short circuit.(...)

Thanks to Keith for his explanations (page 2), I'm an electronics engineer and I approve what he said ... except the two sentences above.

I have my dead pack under the eyes, yes two cells in // are shorted, no they do not sweat. I'm not sure that the pack can give much power (this is not necessary in a cascade configuration), but I measure 0.00 V, short-circuited cells have a very low impedance. Maybe I'm out of luck, but we can not say that the phenomenon is very rare ... 300 € in the trash, rhaaaa. 

[novazeus]

8 hours ago, Techos78 said:

Thanks to Keith for his explanations (page 2), I'm an electronics engineer and I approve what he said ... except the two sentences above.

I have my dead pack under the eyes, yes two cells in // are shorted, no they do not sweat. I'm not sure that the pack can give much power (this is not necessary in a cascade configuration), but I measure 0.00 V, short-circuited cells have a very low impedance. Maybe I'm out of luck, but we can not say that the phenomenon is very rare ... 300 € in the trash, rhaaaa. 

how do u determine which cells are dead when they are all connected in a pack?

i’m not an electonics engineer, btw. thanks for ur advice.

ya, in the world of rechargeable batteries, like tesla, batteries are the engine. when they have to spend ten grand or whatever to replace, not so cool any more. i hear the other car makers are dropping li-on.

[novazeus]

17 hours ago, Techos78 said:

. 300 € in the trash

yeah, think of all the money dji is gonna continually make with their proprietary batteries. i’ve got a inspire one i paid $200 for and probably never used it and it’s a paperweight now.

if somebody hasn’t done it yet, somebody smart like u, should build aftermarket batteries for their drones. with dji doing 2.8 billion last year, my my, lots of loose change laying around.

Edited March 2, 2018 by novazeus

[novazeus]

so i guessed right about batteries going to dead short. they all have different properties but similar so i wasn’t sure. 

[GoinPostal]

On 2/18/2018 at 8:46 PM, novazeus said:

according to wheellog and kingsong app my ks-18s is only reading 90% charge but the charger green light came on. all the little leds on the battery level indicator are lit. it’s reading 64.46volts.

aargh. just when i finally figure out how to use these things problems arise with the damn batteries.

Be sure to use a second volt meter.. I have chased issues only to find that the digital volt meter was incorrect. Since you say the app AND the wheel meter both say it’s at 100%, I would suspect it is. 

[abinder3]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

yeah, think of all the money dji is gonna continually make with their propriety batteries. i’ve got a inspire one i paid $200 for and probably never used it and it’s a paperweight now.

if somebody hasn’t done it yet, somebody smart like u, should build aftermarket batteries for their drones. with dji doing 2.8 billion last year, my my, lots of loose change laying around.

Where did you get an Inspire one for $200 ?

[novazeus]

26 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Where did you get an Inspire one for $200 ?

 

26 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Where did you get an Inspire one for $200 ?

battery. the big capacity batteries are $200 with 6 month warranty. we’re talking batteries here,

[novazeus]

38 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

Be sure to use a second volt meter.. I have chased issues only to find that the digital volt meter was incorrect. Since you say the app AND the wheel meter both say it’s at 100%, I would suspect it is. 

no, i did not say that, i said:

“according to wheellog and kingsong app my ks-18s is only reading 90% charge.”

and i have two voltmeters that are calibrated good enough for this application.

[novazeus]

34 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Where did you get an Inspire one for $200 ?

if u are looking for one, i might sell u mine. i literally flew it for about five minutes and put it away just opening the case to maintain the batteries. idk why that one crapped out. i’ve got three others, p4 and p4pro and mavic that have never been used. same for the goggles. someday. i really need to do some aerials of my property. Bob has consumed all my time. and i’m blessed for that. i would trade Bob for a trillion drones or eucs.

[novazeus]

btw, i was reading thru kingsongs worthless faq on the app

”lack of motivation” was one. struck me as funny. but what does that have to do with the wheel?

[novazeus]

well, now after sitting almost 24 hours, for balancing off the charger, at least the ks-16s is rebounding, if u can believes the wheel’s voltmeter or app. 97% depending on when u look at it because obviously no buffering in their measuring devices. but a half volt below 67.2 is close enough to convince me the packs are fine, its the bms and the firmware that drives it, if that is how it works, because i’ve tried “flow eguilibrium” several times with zero change.

[abinder3]

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

 

battery. the big capacity batteries are $200 with 6 month warranty. we’re talking batteries here,

I was wondering because the way you worded it, sounded like you got the Inspire one for $200. 

[novazeus]

12 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

I was wondering because the way you worded it, sounded like you got the Inspire one for $200. 

ya, i do that intentionally.

“yeah, think of all the money dji is gonna continually make with their proprietary batteries. i’ve got a inspire one i paid $200 for and probably never used it and it’s a paperweight now.”

[Techos78]

On 01/03/2018 at 5:42 PM, novazeus said:

how do u determine which cells are dead when they are all connected in a pack?

Unfortunately, this requires opening the pack. Then cell-by-cell measurements are very easy :

As you can see, there is no component for the balancing function ( yellow rectangles )

There are two excellent schottky diodes in // to protect the charge port ( red rectangle)

And two mosfets in // to interrupt the charge when the first cell reaches 4.2 Volts (blue rectangle).

 

[Smoother]

10 hours ago, Techos78 said:

As you can see, there is no component for the balancing function ( yellow rectangles )

There are two excellent schottky diodes in // to protect the charge port ( red rectangle)

And two mosfets in // to interrupt the charge when the first cell reaches 4.2 Volts (blue rectangle).

Nice photo.  Whos BMS is that?  

Edited March 3, 2018 by Smoother

[steve454]

5 hours ago, Smoother said:

Nicw photo.  Whos BMS is that?  

Looks like the date code is 09/29/2015, it would be interesting to know what that came from.  Never mind, KS16B, hovered the cursor over the photo and got info at the bottom left of the computer screen.

[novazeus]

6 hours ago, Techos78 said:

Unfortunately, this requires opening the pack. Then cell-by-cell measurements are very easy :

As you can see, there is no component for the balancing function ( yellow rectangles )

There are two excellent schottky diodes in // to protect the charge port ( red rectangle)

And two mosfets in // to interrupt the charge when the first cell reaches 4.2 Volts (blue rectangle).

 

thanke. hopefully u will be around when i crack open this wheel and nose around. 

like this college professor that chastised me right before i quit college “u just leech the knowledge from the other students minds that have done all the studying”.

what a tard!

i said yup, cya.

[Techos78]

1 hour ago, steve454 said:

Looks like the date code is 09/29/2015, it would be interesting to know what that came from.

This pack 420 Wh (16s2p, 3500mAh) is from my ks16b-840 bought in Paris in April 2016 at Gyroroue-Shop. This wheel is part of the first batch available in France and transported by plane, the other versions (680Wh and below) were transported by boat. At the beginning of 2016, we had seen a ks16a prototype, but it was the ks16b that was delivered.

I really like kingsong wheels, but of course the first versions can not be perfect, and we are beta testers. It took 100 years to improve the reliability of automobiles, I hope it will be faster for electric wheels...

Other thing, you can notice that there is no limitation of output current, using several large mosfets in parallel. This is fine, only the motherboard has to manage the current (also with a 40 A fuse), it is important for the safety of the driver. If you use a generic pack, you must inhibit the current limitation of the bms by a strap.

[novazeus]

5 hours ago, Techos78 said:

This pack 420 Wh (16s2p, 3500mAh) is from my ks16b-840 bought in Paris in April 2016 at Gyroroue-Shop. This wheel is part of the first batch available in France and transported by plane, the other versions (680Wh and below) were transported by boat. At the beginning of 2016, we had seen a ks16a prototype, but it was the ks16b that was delivered.

I really like kingsong wheels, but of course the first versions can not be perfect, and we are beta testers. It took 100 years to improve the reliability of automobiles, I hope it will be faster for electric wheels...

Other thing, you can notice that there is no limitation of output current, using several large mosfets in parallel. This is fine, only the motherboard has to manage the current (also with a 40 A fuse), it is important for the safety of the driver. If you use a generic pack, you must inhibit the current limitation of the bms by a strap.

thanks for ur input. i’ve wondered if there’s a legitimate market for these things, why can’t smart people (not me) build them, or assemble them like dell computers, and do it with more of a “attention to detail” which was our motto building homes, than china does. their attention to detail sucks. not just wheels but everything i’ve ever bought made in china. seems like the usa is trying to copy their manufacuring. but i don’t know what is lacking, is it technological research  or the manufacturing process.

or is it like, people like to jump out of airplanes near me and on occaision someone hits the ground faster than they should because of a mechanical malfunction, and that’s as good as it gets and the risks u take when u participate.

i hope segway/ninebot take that infusion of cash and really focus on their s1 and the new onez. because of my inability/dangerous to ride w bicycle, i hope they don’t get banned. one of the reasons i got two s1’s, if they get banned, i’ll build a zero turn wheel chair with them and that will help me pass off Bob as a service dog, which he is, in training. plus ripping thru costco with Bob will be a hoot. gonna get him a nice faux lion mane. not Bob but he could get this big when he matures in a couple of more years. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by novazeus

[Techos78]

9 hours ago, novazeus said:

(...) i’ve wondered if there’s a legitimate market for these things, why can’t smart people (not me) build them, or assemble them like dell computers, and do it with more of a “attention to detail” which was our motto building homes, than china does. their attention to detail sucks. not just wheels but everything i’ve ever bought made in china. seems like the usa is trying to copy their manufacuring. but i don’t know what is lacking, is it technological research  or the manufacturing process. (...)

This opinion is a little severe. I do not think the Chinese are producing low-end products voluntarily. They create cheap items in many copies, it's their niche. All this is done by very young people, who are terribly inexperienced. Pedal problems of KS, connection problems of GW ... are almost unimaginable in the West ... I hope.

[novazeus]

4 hours ago, Techos78 said:

This opinion is a little severe

i’m not picking on china mfg. i’m just saying, i’ve never met anybody that equates china made with quality.

i would never buy a chinese made aircraft, would u? i was shopping a yacht made in taiwan but for an american company, but i’m re-thinking that.

i can only relate to my own experiences. for example: i’ve bought thousands of high end appliances made by general electric. never had a problem, not one. when i was fixing up my mother’s house, i thought i’d be clever and bought all samsung for her. i personally installed the dishwasher three times thinking i had a leak at the supply, finally got a repair company out that samsung contracts with, and it turns out that the water pump was there just never “popped” into the correct position.

the kind of stuff i have bought china made were fixtures, door knobs, light bulbs, paddle fans, etc. usually at loss leader sales at home depot type srores, for the affordale homes i built for different government agencies.i knew 20% of the china made goods would be defective, so i’d just buy in excess and return the duds.

if there is some example or examples of quality made goods in china, i’d like to hear about them. a necktie made in china is one thing, a device u rely on not to kill u, is another.

keep in mind, i come from another world as it relates to quality. my first “real” job was with diebold, inc from age 19 to 24. everything i did back then was perfect(as far as installation goes) and it still is today, vault doors don’t change and last a real long time.(meaning u can check ur chinese made spirits level for accuracy on the doors i put in, ten tons on a timken bearing, will find level).

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by novazeus