EUC’s and rhe police . US laws and ordinances.

[maltocs]

2 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

self propelled vehicle   - No loop holes there.  ...........    Unless????  

My state's laws say that a vehicle has TWO or more wheels and an engine or motor. (segway excluded) 

hence the new EMB law that was created for hooverboards when it was a craze during Christmas 2015.  EMB's yes are technically motor vehicles, unless i'm disabled, but they have different laws about where they can be. But the signs marked no motor vehicles were put there WAY before quiet efficient small electric transport devices were ever created. like for hiking trails, i can see why you might not want a motorcross bike there, but an EUC is in no way more of an encroachment on personal hiking or equestrian space than a mountain bike which are sometimes allowed... but is it legal??

[maltocs]

oh, and at least for me anyways, this discussion is purely academic as in reality, california is a very progressive state. I don't think I would ever get sited on an EUC anywhere bicycles are allowed no matter what the law is. I've only got one warning ever, the park police told me "no bikes are allowed on the equestrian path" while I was on my EUC. 

[RockyTop]

  I  would say that it is not legal in Pennsylvania but unless the cops have been told to crack down on them they will look the other way.  They are not legal in NYC and the only arrests seem to imply that the EUC was not the real issue.  ie. another crime was committed while riding.  The real problem is that if something goes wrong you are at fault regardless because you are breaking the law. 

[maltocs]

True, if the cops even know the law regarding electric vehicles anyways. I would imagine most don't. 

[Meelosh123]

Got stopped by a motorcycle cop on the Swamp Rabbit Trail in Greenville, SC; was told that my EUC is considered a motorized vehicle and I am not allowed on the trail.  This is a 22-mile "multi-use" trail that connects a lot of areas (including downtown Greenville and adjacent towns) in Greenville county.  Suffice it to say, if I'm not allowed on the Swamp Rabbit, my EUC is borderline useless.

The cop told me that Ty Houck, Director of Greenways, Natural and Historic Resources for Greenville County Recreation District, is responsible for cracking down on electric skateboards because "they go too fast."  He looked at my EUC and said that thing's a motorized vehicle.  There are signs everywhere that say no motorized vehicles, however I was hoping that that rule was for things with combustion engines are larger vehicles like mopeds.

The State laws (https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t56c005.php) regarding these in SC are similar to what I've read in this thread.

Title 56 Chapter 5 Article 26 Section 56-5-3310 goes on about Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices ("self-balancing two nontandem wheeled device...") and how they are NOT to be considered motor vehicles, notwithstanding another provision of law.  Greenville municipal code offers no such provisions that would override this.  However, the use of the word "two" in "two nontandem wheeled device" kind of hamstrings the use of this rule... 

(A) As used in this article, "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device" or "EPAMD" means a self-balancing two nontandem wheeled device designed to transport one person, with an electric propulsion system with average power of seven hundred fifty watts (one horsepower), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by this propulsion system while ridden by an operator weighing one hundred seventy pounds, is less than twenty miles an hour.

(B) The operation of an EPAMD is governed by the provisions of this article. Notwithstanding another provision of law, an EPAMD is not considered a "vehicle" or "motor vehicle" within the meaning of the laws of this State and no provisions of law relating to vehicles or motor vehicles apply to an EPAMD unless specified in this article.
 

 

Section 56-6-130 defines a motor vehicle:

Every vehicle which is self-propelled, except mopeds, and every vehicle which is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails, is a "motor vehicle".

A catchall that screws me if a EUC isn't given its own identity.

Section 56-5-160 defines a bicycle:

A bicycle is a device propelled solely by pedals, operated by one or more persons, and having two or more wheels, except childrens' tricycles

Section 56-5-165 defines a moped:

Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 56-5-160, every cycle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power or without pedals and with a motor of not more than fifty cubic centimeters which produces not to exceed two brake horsepower and which is not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed in excess of thirty miles an hour on level ground is a moped. If an internal combustion engine is used, the moped must have a power drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting by the operator after the drive system is engaged.

 

Regarding mopeds, in some new legislation, effective November 2018:

(26)      ‘Moped’ means a cycle, defined as a motor vehicle, with or without pedals, to permit propulsion by human power, that travels on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground whether powered by gasoline, electricity, alternative fuel, or a hybrid combination thereof. Based on the engine or fuel source, the moped must be equipped not to exceed the following limitations: a motor of fifty cubic centimeters; or designed to have an input exceeding 750 watts and no more than 1500 watts. If an internal combustion engine is used, the moped must have a power drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting by the operator after the drive system is engaged.

__________________________________

Bottom line is I think they need to modify the definition of Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices to include one-wheeled devices.  I do not know where that leaves electric skateboards.  It seems the guy who may be able to help with all this thinks electric skateboards go too fast, and from what I read, his two young children utilize the Swamp Rabbit Trail to get to school.  The thing is, we've got road cyclists decked out in spandex, seemingly training for the Tour de France, burning rubber all along this trail.

I'm still a bit frazzled by all this today.  Has anyone had luck with convincing their local government?  Any tips for me?  I'm going to need to write at least one email and one phone call...and city hall is just a few blocks from my office...

[Rotciv]

7 minutes ago, Meelosh123 said:

However, the use of the word "two" in "two nontandem wheeled device" kind of hamstrings the use of this rule... 

(A) As used in this article, "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device" or "EPAMD" means a self-balancing two nontandem wheeled device designed to transport one person, with an electric propulsion system with average power of seven hundred fifty watts (one horsepower), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by this propulsion system while ridden by an operator weighing one hundred seventy pounds, is less than twenty miles an hour.

(B) The operation of an EPAMD is governed by the provisions of this article. Notwithstanding another provision of law, an EPAMD is not considered a "vehicle" or "motor vehicle" within the meaning of the laws of this State and no provisions of law relating to vehicles or motor vehicles apply to an EPAMD unless specified in this article.  

Install a small wheel right under the pedal hinge. Or a wheel big enough to touch the ground but can be removed. If questioned about the self balancing part, install the second wheel and let the wheel balance on it’s own. 

There should be a national euc organization that will push for new laws to allow euc where bikes are allowed. Having one person calling or sending an email to their lawmakers is not very effective. 

[pattymac]

Here in Georgia (the state) we also have an EPAMD law, which I rely on to let me ride my EUC on bike paths and multi-use paths, like the Beltline in Atlanta. In fact I commute to work on my EUC on the Beltline. I've passed many police officers on bicycles and have never been stopped - just curious looks. Pedestrians have on a few occasions told me that no motorized vehicles are allowed. When I've had the opportunity or time I tell them it's an EPAMD and is perfectly legal. Now in Atlanta we have rental scooters (like Bird), and I see those pretty frequently riding where they aren't supposed to. Hopefully the lawmakers and or police will see these new transportation methods as benefits and not outlaw them. At least in my case it's keeping a car off the road on most days.

[Meelosh123]

Thanks for the replies.  I was corresponding with the person who is apparently the "boss" of the Swamp Rabbit.  He said "If motorized wheelchairs, scooters and the like fall into the category of EPAMD's we do allow them for people with verified evidence of a disability...We view Motorized scooter, segways and the like as motorized vehicles and thus are prohibited."

The problem with that is that there is no provision in the municipal code that says anything like this.  State law says EPAMD's are not considered motor vehicles.  His last response was "Let me ask legal."  The trail is controlled by Greenville County Parks and Recreation, so I don't think it's privately owned.

 

Here are some links to two other threads regarding EUC legality:

 

Maybe this forum isn't the appropriate place for legal help...but maybe it is?  How should EPAMD's be defined in state law?  Should electric unicycles have their own classification?  Or should there be one robust definition for all electric devices?  There are caveats to both approaches.  It's also odd putting relatively low speed limits on these things in state law, since road bikes were flying by me going 25+mph.  Perhaps if we can come up with one rock-solid piece of wording, others can re-use it in their own state.  Maybe Electric Unicycle Forum can be its own lobbyist.

If my unicycle is classified as an EPAMD, not a motor-vehicle, and the only posted/written rule/code for this multi-use trail is "no motorized-vehicles", should I not be allowed to utilize it?

[Rotciv]

1 hour ago, Meelosh123 said:

Thanks for the replies.  I was corresponding with the person who is apparently the "boss" of the Swamp Rabbit.  He said "If motorized wheelchairs, scooters and the like fall into the category of EPAMD's we do allow them for people with verified evidence of a disability...We view Motorized scooter, segways and the like as motorized vehicles and thus are prohibited."

The problem with that is that there is no provision in the municipal code that says anything like this.  State law says EPAMD's are not considered motor vehicles.  His last response was "Let me ask legal."  The trail is controlled by Greenville County Parks and Recreation, so I don't think it's privately owned.

 

Here are some links to two other threads regarding EUC legality:

 

Maybe this forum isn't the appropriate place for legal help...but maybe it is?  How should EPAMD's be defined in state law?  Should electric unicycles have their own classification?  Or should there be one robust definition for all electric devices?  There are caveats to both approaches.  It's also odd putting relatively low speed limits on these things in state law, since road bikes were flying by me going 25+mph.  Perhaps if we can come up with one rock-solid piece of wording, others can re-use it in their own state.  Maybe Electric Unicycle Forum can be its own lobbyist.

If my unicycle is classified as an EPAMD, not a motor-vehicle, and the only posted/written rule/code for this multi-use trail is "no motorized-vehicles", should I not be allowed to utilize it?

According to Americans with Disabilities Act you can state verbally that you’re using an euc because you lack stamina and they must accept that as credible assurance. They can’t ask you about your disabilities.

I don’t know about any of you, but I can’t sustain 10-15 mph for more than a few miles on foot.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Rotciv
Spelling and context

[RockyTop]

4 hours ago, Meelosh123 said:

I was corresponding with the person who is apparently the "boss" of the Swamp Rabbit.  He said "If motorized wheelchairs, scooters and the like fall into the category of EPAMD's we do allow them for people with verified evidence of a disability...We view Motorized scooter, segways and the like as motorized vehicles and thus are prohibited."

 

 

The South Carolina law is almost the same as the Tennessee law. I understand the confusion about handicap usage but that is not what the law is about. The law was made for the usage of the two wheeled Segway. Segway spent a lot of money in the US to insure that their product could be used in almost all of the state. Tennessee law adds that it is unlawful to restrict the Segway in any way that you would not restrict a bicycle. (The Segway is a bicycle by law)  Georgia law says that a Segway can be used on bike paths and roads as long as the road speed limit is 35 mph or lower . Always yeild to pedestrians and NEVER block a handicap mobility device. It can’t block a handicap device if it is one.  

[Guest]

I'm getting the Z10. Batman doesn't care about your laws.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Rotciv said:

According to Americans with Disabilities Act you can state verbally that you’re using an euc because you lack stamina and they must accept that as credible assurance. They can’t ask you about your disabilities.

I don’t know about any of you, but I can’t sustain 10-15 mph for more than a few miles on foot.

I'm a crim lawyer and THIS is useful and should shut the cops down or defeat ANY ticket. 

[Rotciv]

5 minutes ago, dw8928 said:

I'm a crim lawyer and THIS is useful and should shut the cops down or defeat ANY ticket. 

Yay!? Someone actually read the final regulations ??

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Rotciv said:

Yay!? Someone actually read the final regulations ??

It would be better if it quoted the actual Code of Federal Regulations or USC.

[dmethvin]

On 8/1/2018 at 12:11 AM, Guest said:

It would be better if it quoted the actual Code of Federal Regulations or USC.

"Credible Assurance" https://www.ada.gov/opdmd.htm

[Steef Klonoa]

Hey guys, wanted to bend your ears on this one. So I live in Massachusetts. In my state you need a driver's license for even an electric bicycle or scooter. EUC's do not fit in anywhere with our laws though, the only thing I would be concerned about is if they choose to classify them as motor vehicles. I know they are being used in Boston all the time and have never seen someone comment about any issues with the law, but wanted to get your thoughts on this. Here is the link to definitions for our state:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section1

 

and here is a brief definition from the section about motor vehicles:

" "Motor vehicles'', all vehicles constructed and designed for propulsion by power other than muscular power"

My question is, do EUCs fit this definition? They are motorized, but there would be no propulsion without muscular power, you need to direct your body movements in order to go anywhere with a EUC. What do you guys think?

[Acturbo]

28 minutes ago, Steef Klonoa said:

Hey guys, wanted to bend your ears on this one. So I live in Massachusetts. In my state you need a driver's license for even an electric bicycle or scooter. EUC's do not fit in anywhere with our laws though, the only thing I would be concerned about is if they choose to classify them as motor vehicles. I know they are being used in Boston all the time and have never seen someone comment about any issues with the law, but wanted to get your thoughts on this. Here is the link to definitions for our state:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section1

 

and here is a brief definition from the section about motor vehicles:

" "Motor vehicles'', all vehicles constructed and designed for propulsion by power other than muscular power"

My question is, do EUCs fit this definition? They are motorized, but there would be no propulsion without muscular power, you need to direct your body movements in order to go anywhere with a EUC. What do you guys think?

Technically they are designed for propulsion by a motor and not by a muscle.  You so need some "muscle" to get them to move but the primary power source is an electric motor.  I think it falls into a grey area which I always see as a positive thing.  Arguments could be made both ways.  Much like when signs say no electric bikes, we are technically not riding a bicycle but rather a unicycle.  Don't make yourself stick out and don't give the law a specific reason to target an EUC and I think all will be ok.  Just an opinion of course..............................

[maltocs]

49 minutes ago, Steef Klonoa said:

" "Motor vehicles'', all vehicles constructed and designed for propulsion by power other than muscular power"

My question is, do EUCs fit this definition? They are motorized, but there would be no propulsion without muscular power, you need to direct your body movements in order to go anywhere with a EUC. What do you guys think?

1

You need muscles to balance, you don't need it for propulsion, that part is all electric. That being said, I still don't think they are motor vehicles the way the laws were intended, and I can't see you getting anything other than a warning unless you are reckless. 

[Stan Onymous]

30 minutes ago, maltocs said:

You need muscles to balance, you don't need it for propulsion, that part is all electric. That being said, I still don't think they are motor vehicles the way the laws were intended, and I can't see you getting anything other than a warning unless you are reckless. 

Actually the Electric unicycle is propelled by balance. The gyroscopic circuit keep the x- axis at a 90° angle, so leaning off balance in any direction will move the vehicle since the gyro likes the 90° as programmed. The unicycle doesnt propel as much as it ameliorates the distance between balance and top dead center. So it does both, and so do the riders.

It is a type of psuedo auto pedal assist.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Stan Onymous

[Steef Klonoa]

Thanks for the responses, a gray area for sure but you all bring up some good points. I will definitely try to keep a low profile though.

[litewave]

 

On 7/31/2018 at 10:45 PM, Guest said:

I'm a crim lawyer and THIS is useful and should shut the cops down or defeat ANY ticket. 

 

On 7/31/2018 at 11:11 PM, Guest said:

It would be better if it quoted the actual Code of Federal Regulations or USC.

 

If you are dead certain that your local park or law enforcement has had sensitivity training and enjoys having their authority questioned, then it may be worth the risk. Who knows, you might impress them with your legal knowledge and winning smile so much, that they'll apologize to you and thank you for enlightening them. Or you may get body-slammed or worse. It happens, you know.

 

 

[RayRay]

1 hour ago, Stan Onymous said:

Actually the Electric unicycle is propelled by balance. The gyroscopic circuit keep the x- axis at a 90° angle, so leaning off balance in any direction will move the vehicle since the gyro likes the 90° as programmed. The unicycle doesnt propel as much as it ameliorates the distance between balance and top dead center. So it does both, and so do the riders.

It is a type of psuedo auto pedal assist.

Yes, an euc is not made for propulsion at all...

It simply 'propels' (er, uh) adjusts momentum forward/backward (in a linear motion) in order to maintain balance.

Edited August 9, 2018 by RayRay
counter-gravitational forces assistive device

[Acturbo]

2 hours ago, Steef Klonoa said:

Thanks for the responses, a gray area for sure but you all bring up some good points. I will definitely try to keep a low profile though.

Regarding the motor vehicle questions I look at it this way..............the bike trail says no motorized vehicles which I assume to mean dirtbikes, 4 wheelers, automobiles, or other high powered devices from riding on the trail.  When I look at my footprint on the EUC and the maximum speed of a professional cyclist, they are very similar.  On the other side of the coin, the on ramp to my local interstate says "motorized vehicles only" which I take to mean only vehicles equipped to handle the speeds and terrain of a freeway, hence if I was riding my EUC on the freeway I would expect to be kicked out, fined, etc.  All a very grey area........................

[Stan Onymous]

California DOT has classified electric Unicycles suitable for all bike trails and anywhere it is allowed to ride a bike. If it is only capable of EMPV classification like those under 12.9mph then it is allowed as a skateboard classification. 

I am not aware of their electric bicycle protocols, but those are the two classifications that our Wheels can fall into with respect to California DOT.

[Steef Klonoa]

That is awesome if you live in California! Hopefully they do something like that around here. In the meantime it's probably in our best interest to keep track of who gets in trouble with their wheel and why, so we can avoid the same fate. So far I've only seen two people get in big trouble in the news, the German guy jacking off on his unicycle, and the UK guy who got 6 points off his license for just riding in the street. Everything else I've seen appears to be just fines or warnings.