16' vs 18' pros and cons?

[Shad0z]

whaat are the pro and cons for each wheel size please explain and share your preference

and what the good sides and bad sides of each size i need to know

im buying my first weuc in not long so i want to make the right decision reccomend a size for me and explain why

[outcast00096]

I love an 18 inch wheel. If you don't know what kind of terrain you're going to encounter then I want to be riding an 18 inch wheel. Downside is that 18 or larger wheels are huge. Police take greater notice of you. You're more likely to get stopped. 16 is more maneuverable and feels faster because of torque if you get the right wheel. My 16 Kingsong feels faster and I ride it faster than my 18. However, once you get used to an 18... I tend to prefer it. 16 is better all around and easier to take places though. 18 gets a lot of attention and it's not always good. 16 wheels tend to be prettier and get more comments. 18 inchers people tend to go, the hell is that. 16 people go, that's awesome I want one.

That being said... I'd still prefer an 18 inch wheel. My area does not have great sidewalks. It's very hilly. 18 is my cup of tea.

[Bryan Wells]

coming from a 14 to a 16 then 18 and back to a 16. as an overall package the 16 is best. my reasoning is that you can ride a 16 very "playful and nippy" in a driveway sized area and if the wheel is a little bit heavy like a 840 or larger WH battery it will also be very respectably stable in high speed situations. with the 18 you get really no driveway playfulness at all, if you want to zip around tight areas you are working a lot for it and it kinds of takes the fun zippy feel out of any euc. However the 18 is like coasting on a bike if you ride it on flat road at high speed, you don't even think about it (my opinion a bit boring feeling)

 

And then comes the geometry of the two sizes. Think of it this way, if you were to place 10 pounds of weight right on the front tip of both pedals and let the wheel go it would start to roll forward, it could even climb a small hill okay. but if you put the same 10 pounds on the front of the pedals of an 18 you will not be able to climb the same grade of hill as the 16. simply put, you have a fair leverage advantage on the 16. this effect on an 18 can make climbing really steep hills much more stressful on your calves. 

[Gimlet]

They all have advantages but having 14", 16" and 18" wheels in my garage I'm afraid to say my first choice when I grab one is still one of my 10" wheels. 

[Smoother]

6 hours ago, Bryan Wells said:

simply put, you have a fair leverage advantage on the 16. this effect on an 18 can make climbing really steep hills much more stressful on your calves. 

That's the first time I've heard some mention this phenomenon. I was thinking about it just yesterday for some reason.  I haven't experienced it myself because I haven't tried the same hill on two different wheels, back to back, but logically it makes sense.  As the contact patch of the tire moves forward to match the slope of the hill, it requires the rider to match this forward contact patch with more forward pressure. The larger the wheel, the further the contact has to move forward.  

Can't see it? Imagine a pool ball sized wheel, the maximum the contact patch could move forward is the radius of the circle, about 1", and that would be a vertical contact patch.  On a 22" wheel for that same vertical contact patch the distance (radius) would be 11" plus the height of the tire sidewall, say 13"  that's WAY INFRONT  of the front of the pedal.  Every slope between horizontal and vertical would incrementally fall between 0" and this 13"  

Interesting (to me anyway), I once tried a hill on my ks14c that measured 21deg (not21%) and while the wheel could climb it, I couldn't. I found 3 things prevented me from "starting" in the middle of this hill:

1. My weight was so far forward that I was literary standing on the balls of my feet, and my heels were completely off the pedals.

2. My toes were scraping the ground 

3. Even though the wheel started to climb, it was so slow ( because of 1, and 2, above) that it was quite wobbly and precarious.

Because I had started 1/2 way up this long concrete slope (bounded by concrete steps), I erred on the side of caution, and terminated my experiment, lest we both take a long painful tumble. that's when I though a 1" pedal extension would be lovely.

coincidently, I was coming down a steep hill (ks14c) in Calpe, Spain, and just to maintain a safe speed I was standing on my heels, and my souls were just flapping around, making almost no contact with the pedals.  It was a bit scary.  I don't think I could have stopped without balancing myself right off the back of the pedals, onto my ass.  I now, fully understand what @Marty Backe was saying about passing the "ON YOUR RIGHT !!!" Lady, about how it was about as slow as he could go. Sorry Marty for doubting you  

[dmethvin]

Seems fair to say that as a general rule, bigger wheels are more stable at high speeds and straight-line driving but heavier and less maneuverable? My 14-inch wheel feels like an extension of my foot and doesn't take that much effort to turn. My 16 inch wheel feels more like I'm riding on top of it. I tried a Monster briefly and it felt like sitting on a motorcycle. I'd love to try an MTen to see what that's like but I'd expect it to be a more nimble 14-inch feel.

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, dmethvin said:

Seems fair to say that as a general rule, bigger wheels are more stable at high speeds and straight-line driving but heavier and less maneuverable? My 14-inch wheel feels like an extension of my foot and doesn't take that much effort to turn. My 16 inch wheel feels more like I'm riding on top of it. I tried a Monster briefly and it felt like sitting on a motorcycle. I'd love to try an MTen to see what that's like but I'd expect it to be a more nimble 14-inch feel.

Correct on all accounts, except the Mten3 is not a more nimble version of a 14-inch wheel. My KS14S feels lumbering next to the Mten3. They are totally different beasts.

[Bryan Wells]

6 hours ago, Smoother said:

That's the first time I've heard some mention this phenomenon. I was thinking about it just yesterday for some reason.  I haven't experienced it myself because I haven't tried the same hill on two different wheels, back to back, but logically it makes sense.  As the contact patch of the tire moves forward to match the slope of the hill, it requires the rider to match this forward contact patch with more forward pressure. The larger the wheel, the further the contact has to move forward.  

Can't see it? Imagine a pool ball sized wheel, the maximum the contact patch could move forward is the radius of the circle, about 1", and that would be a vertical contact patch.  On a 22" wheel for that same vertical contact patch the distance (radius) would be 11" plus the height of the tire sidewall, say 13"  that's WAY INFRONT  of the front of the pedal.  Every slope between horizontal and vertical would incrementally fall between 0" and this 13"  

Interesting (to me anyway), I once tried a hill on my ks14c that measured 21deg (not21%) and while the wheel could climb it, I couldn't. I found 3 things prevented me from "starting" in the middle of this hill:

1. My weight was so far forward that I was literary standing on the balls of my feet, and my heels were completely off the pedals.

2. My toes were scraping the ground 

3. Even though the wheel started to climb, it was so slow ( because of 1, and 2, above) that it was quite wobbly and precarious.

Because I had started 1/2 way up this long concrete slope (bounded by concrete steps), I erred on the side of caution, and terminated my experiment, lest we both take a long painful tumble. that's when I though a 1" pedal extension would be lovely.

coincidently, I was coming down a steep hill (ks14c) in Calpe, Spain, and just to maintain a safe speed I was standing on my heels, and my souls were just flapping around, making almost no contact with the pedals.  It was a bit scary.  I don't think I could have stopped without balancing myself right off the back of the pedals, onto my ass.  I now, fully understand what @Marty Backe was saying about passing the "ON YOUR RIGHT !!!" Lady, about how it was about as slow as he could go. Sorry Marty for doubting you  

exactly, you really do feel the more and more  required inputs as you go up in wheel size

[Shad0z]

7 hours ago, Smoother said:

That's the first time I've heard some mention this phenomenon. I was thinking about it just yesterday for some reason.  I haven't experienced it myself because I haven't tried the same hill on two different wheels, back to back, but logically it makes sense.  As the contact patch of the tire moves forward to match the slope of the hill, it requires the rider to match this forward contact patch with more forward pressure. The larger the wheel, the further the contact has to move forward.  

Can't see it? Imagine a pool ball sized wheel, the maximum the contact patch could move forward is the radius of the circle, about 1", and that would be a vertical contact patch.  On a 22" wheel for that same vertical contact patch the distance (radius) would be 11" plus the height of the tire sidewall, say 13"  that's WAY INFRONT  of the front of the pedal.  Every slope between horizontal and vertical would incrementally fall between 0" and this 13"  

Interesting (to me anyway), I once tried a hill on my ks14c that measured 21deg (not21%) and while the wheel could climb it, I couldn't. I found 3 things prevented me from "starting" in the middle of this hill:

1. My weight was so far forward that I was literary standing on the balls of my feet, and my heels were completely off the pedals.

2. My toes were scraping the ground 

3. Even though the wheel started to climb, it was so slow ( because of 1, and 2, above) that it was quite wobbly and precarious.

Because I had started 1/2 way up this long concrete slope (bounded by concrete steps), I erred on the side of caution, and terminated my experiment, lest we both take a long painful tumble. that's when I though a 1" pedal extension would be lovely.

coincidently, I was coming down a steep hill (ks14c) in Calpe, Spain, and just to maintain a safe speed I was standing on my heels, and my souls were just flapping around, making almost no contact with the pedals.  It was a bit scary.  I don't think I could have stopped without balancing myself right off the back of the pedals, onto my ass.  I now, fully understand what @Marty Backe was saying about passing the "ON YOUR RIGHT !!!" Lady, about how it was about as slow as he could go. Sorry Marty for doubting you  

thats a lot of advanced words but I will just act as if I understand them

google translate is working fine but sime weird errors.

[Shad0z]

thank you all for you good answers 

I will go for the tesla as I thought of as before but I was considering a larger wheel

but what I'm looking for is a fun to ride fast feeling not too big wheel that I can also drive in small areas with and easily turn but still that stability so I would say 16' is the sweet spot for me

[Bryan Wells]

29 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

thank you all for you good answers 

I will go for the tesla as I thought of as before but I was considering a larger wheel

but what I'm looking for is a fun to ride fast feeling not too big wheel that I can also drive in small areas with and easily turn but still that stability so I would say 16' is the sweet spot for me

most likely yeah. My only opinion is that unless you are a pretty avid one wheel rider you might want to reallyyyyyy be careful with the Tesla, as stated in other topics the Tesla is king of performance but it is also the fragile phone with no case, you drop it once good and you will not be happy with the shell strength. Its not weak in the hands or feel or anything, but if it takes a tumble doing 20mph i'm positive other wheels would take the crash better. But if you don't crash it until GotWay can provide spare parts (hopefully a month out) than I can assure that you just bought the cream of the crop in ride quality and peak performance !

[LanghamP]

The  heavier the wheel the worse they crash, and a new rider will crash often, hard, and in both ingenious and stupid ways. You want a wheel that can take you over that hump without costing you too much. 

Although out of scope, a cheap but safe 14 inch wheel would give you all the skills you need, and a 14 incher is always useful, that is, you could use it for almost anything whereas a heavier 16 or 18 isn't especially if you bust it up during your learning phase. 

This isn't like motorcycles where accidents have consequences. These are more like expensive and delicate skateboards where you might get a broken arm, but probably not even that. Still, drop a heavy wheel enough times and you'll break it. 

If you like this sport which also doubles as the best urban commuter ever invented, then you'll end up with at least a few wheels of different sizes. 

 

[Shad0z]

56 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The  heavier the wheel the worse they crash, and a new rider will crash often, hard, and in both ingenious and stupid ways. You want a wheel that can take you over that hump without costing you too much. 

Although out of scope, a cheap but safe 14 inch wheel would give you all the skills you need, and a 14 incher is always useful, that is, you could use it for almost anything whereas a heavier 16 or 18 isn't especially if you bust it up during your learning phase. 

This isn't like motorcycles where accidents have consequences. These are more like expensive and delicate skateboards where you might get a broken arm, but probably not even that. Still, drop a heavy wheel enough times and you'll break it. 

If you like this sport which also doubles as the best urban commuter ever invented, then you'll end up with at least a few wheels of different sizes. 

 

"a few wheels" is far from my budget. Way far off

[Shad0z]

3 hours ago, Bryan Wells said:

most likely yeah. My only opinion is that unless you are a pretty avid one wheel rider you might want to reallyyyyyy be careful with the Tesla, as stated in other topics the Tesla is king of performance but it is also the fragile phone with no case, you drop it once good and you will not be happy with the shell strength. Its not weak in the hands or feel or anything, but if it takes a tumble doing 20mph i'm positive other wheels would take the crash better. But if you don't crash it until GotWay can provide spare parts (hopefully a month out) than I can assure that you just bought the cream of the crop in ride quality and peak performance !

I'm ready to fill it up with my own choice of padding I will put some red lines on it and then everything is good

but I will try my best and use extreme patience in learning the wheel and minimize falls and and try to make it work smoothly (not possible but almost)

and of course pad the wheel so I cant see it the next month and lock the speed at 25kmph until I get down the feeling of the wheel and then start thinking of higher speeds

I'm a very patient person

(when it comes to my interests. If it doesn't interest Then its opposite)

 

 

 

[LanghamP]

56 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

"a few wheels" is far from my budget. Way far off

You could buy 2 or 3 KS14d's for the same price of a Tesla. If you have the budget for a Tesla and you crashed it, destroying it, then will you immediately go out and buy another Tesla? If you have the budget for a Tesla but buy a KS14, and crash it hard enough to destroy it (much less likely because smaller wheels crash easier), then can you immediately replace it?

Aren't Gotways known for breaking down? 

Even financially a 14 incher would save you money quite quickly as you forgo public transport and autos. Having a Tesla out of commission would mean you aren't saving money anymore. 

[steve454]

20 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

You could buy 2 or 3 KS14d's for the same price of a Tesla. If you have the budget for a Tesla and you crashed it, destroying it, then will you immediately go out and buy another Tesla? If you have the budget for a Tesla but buy a KS14, and crash it hard enough to destroy it (much less likely because smaller wheels crash easier), then can you immediately replace it?

Aren't Gotways known for breaking down? 

Even financially a 14 incher would save you money quite quickly as you forgo public transport and autos. Having a Tesla out of commission would mean you aren't saving money anymore. 

Good points, the KS14d gets good reviews, goes 30kmh, has decent range, and is available in Europe.  Plus it probably won't break the shell as easily.  https://www.electricunicycles.eu/kingsong_ks14_d_(black)_420_wh-c__156  Also the Kingsong has 4 speakers for playing music.  There is a good unboxing video at this website.

However, 14 inch wheel doesn't handle bumps as well as 16 inch wheel, and might be harder to learn on.  Just pad whatever wheel and it should be good to learn on without fear of damage.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

You could buy 2 or 3 KS14d's for the same price of a Tesla. If you have the budget for a Tesla and you crashed it, destroying it, then will you immediately go out and buy another Tesla? If you have the budget for a Tesla but buy a KS14, and crash it hard enough to destroy it (much less likely because smaller wheels crash easier), then can you immediately replace it?

Aren't Gotways known for breaking down? 

Even financially a 14 incher would save you money quite quickly as you forgo public transport and autos. Having a Tesla out of commission would mean you aren't saving money anymore. 

No they're not. Sure, they have QC issues, but I don't think that they are known for breaking down, imho. I've owned quite a few Gotway wheels and personally know many people who ride Gotway wheels. The wheels aren't "broken down". Everyone is out riding them 

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

You could buy 2 or 3 KS14d's for the same price of a Tesla

You definitely have a point but I’m a guy that is both prudent and looks to the future.  How about 2 KS14ds and a down payment on a Tesla?

[Shad0z]

17 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

No they're not. Sure, they have QC issues, but I don't think that they are known for breaking down, imho. I've owned quite a few Gotway wheels and personally know many people who ride Gotway wheels. The wheels aren't "broken down". Everyone is out riding them 

i agrre and gotway wheels are known for breaking down because people disable the speed limit and go nuts up and down hills i wont be doing that i will be padding the hell out of it and locking speed limit to 20 kph in first month then increasing it to about 35-50 kph (i have to get wheel first to feel how it is to choose)

im buying a tesla and im going to use a lot of patience and time and dont break it while learning and even more carefull when being good at it 

 

 

15 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

You definitely have a point but I’m a guy that is both prudent and looks to the future.  How about 2 KS14ds and a down payment on a Tesla?

over 2000 dollars spent on 2 ks14d and one tesla  

 

 

EDIT:  2000dollars is still too much but repairs for tesla looks like my budget can support because if i sell my old laptop very good still i have money but then i also can pay 80 dollar to a seller and get a brand new minipro but i rather want to get the tesla and then pay and get mini pro so i dont pay for a mini pro with my tesla money 

[Bryan Wells]

if you do learn with extreme caution, on grass or something, you should be good. wrap it in pillow cases and duct tape. Gotways that make it the first 100 miles are pretty damn unlikely to just break down without rider error. hell even 20 miles. this goes with all wheels.

[Shad0z]

2 hours ago, Bryan Wells said:

if you do learn with extreme caution, on grass or something, you should be good. wrap it in pillow cases and duct tape. Gotways that make it the first 100 miles are pretty damn unlikely to just break down without rider error. hell even 20 miles. this goes with all wheels.

Im eaiter going for an old matress or some other kind of foam but then after i have leærned driving it i would like to find some more good looking foam so i dont look like a guy driving on a matress any ideas for wich type of meterial i should get rubber? Foam?. Rubbery foam?

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Im eaiter going for an old matress or some other kind of foam but then after i have leærned driving it i would like to find some more good looking foam so i dont look like a guy driving on a matress any ideas for wich type of meterial i should get rubber? Foam?. Rubbery foam?

If your crafty there is a silicone material called Duraflex by Guard Manufacturing that I used for my covers on both the KS14C and KS16S. The videos depict the fabrication process and completion of the KS14C cover. Here is also  a few photos of my KS16S cover. The same method would apply for any EUC. Expensive but it eliminates the mattress appearance. 

 

 

 

 

[Gimlet]

I don't think it's at all easy to find a retailer for Duraflex by Guard Manufacturing Rehab.

You are in a unique position with your orthopadic supplies, I can't even find the sheeting on the manufacturer's web site let alone a retailer who sells it.

Do you have a link for us lesser mortals?

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Gimlet said:

I don't think it's at all easy to find a retailer for Duraflex by Guard Manufacturing Rehab.

You are in a unique position with your orthopadic supplies, I can't even find the sheeting on the manufacturer's web site let alone a retailer who sells it.

Do you have a link for us lesser mortals?

Here you go. http://www.guardmfg.com/ContactUs.aspx

http://www.guardmfg.com/SearchResults.aspx?Search=Duraflex

 

Edit Update:  I've spoke to the president of Guard Industries and he would like to see the application of my process which I am now submitting . He will then punch some #s about discount cost for the material. I understand this method is not for everybody but I would be more than willing to assist in any way I can.

[Shad0z]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

If your crafty there is a silicone material called Duraflex by Guard Manufacturing that I used for my covers on both the KS14C and KS16S. The videos depict the fabrication process and completion of the KS14C cover. Here is also  a few photos of my KS16S cover. The same method would apply for any EUC. Expensive but it eliminates the mattress appearance. 

 

 

 

 

interesting i will look into that...