Crashes. Learning from other's mistakes

[SirGeraint]

I am hoping to learn in order to avoid crashes.  Can anyone tell what caused these EU crashes?  I suppose they could both be from over leaning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXVKuNVVh0I      near the end at 2:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAVMhA6FEp4     maybe the Chinese text tells what happened

Also, what happens when you get a flat?  I would guess a slow leak would be easy to identify.  Does a quick flat cause a crash?

 

Thanks
 

[esaj]

On the Ninebot-video, it could be overleaning, or he hit something on the ground (hard to say because of the fence shadow, but it looks like there was SOMETHING on the street exactly where he falls, looking at slowed video). The Rockwheel-video I've seen before, and I think he's riding it over the max speed, causing it to tilt forwards and loses his balance.

I don't know about flats, but the common ways to fall would probably be something like:

-Overleaning / overpowering

-Simply losing balance in general

-Jumping up a curb or such, wheel doesn't get over it cleanly, and you have to dismount

-Jumping down a curb or such, wheel tilts too much backwards/forwards during airtime, and cannot recover back to horizontal position after hitting ground (if you have good balance and powerful wheel, this is manageable)

-Hitting a bump or pothole at high speed, the wheel usually tilts strongly forwards for a second, and does a really FAST acceleration before recovering (if it has enough power), during which keeping balance is difficult (but doable, I've had a couple of these at >20km/h speed), with low powered wheel / too high speed, it probably doesn't have enough torque to recover and just falls forwards

-BMS cut-out

-High speed cut-out

--Mechanical or electronical fault causing the motor/tire to stop spinning or the wheel to lose power entirely

[Mono]

The obvious and best measure to avoid a crash with injuries is to always limit speed and leaning angle such that one can run it off when losing the wheel. I don't think this can be repeated often enough. 

When I lose the wheel it is usually when I hit one or several bumps (in particular off-road) or a curb too hard. Many of these, I believe, I could have prevented by being more responsive/soft in the knees. 

I lost the wheel a few times when something unexpected happened (someone crossing the path unexpectedly) and I wanted to break hard, not sure what happened exactly in these cases. 

I would think a tire blow-out can easily lead to a crash, where the probability increases with speed, forward leaning angle, and inexperience of the rider.

[Jag_Rip]

my youtube-fu shows a little stone as the culprit for the first fall. Bot suddenly wobbles and the rider jumps off.

 

[Mono]

First vid: doesn't look like overleaning. It looks like the rider tries to avoid a (comparatively small) stone in front of him and looses balance in the process (without ever hitting the stone though). Probably lack of experience.   

Second vid: overleaning. 

 

[dmethvin]

I am pretty sure that my crash was a balance-during-airtime issue similar to what @esaj mentioned. I was leaning forward slightly and ran off a pushed-up sidewalk joint that I didn't see. While I was in the air the unicycle leaned forward a lot and I couldn't regain balance. 

Usually I can recover from uneven sidewalk joints, small potholes, etc. It's mainly an issue of being prepared and not going too fast when terrain is uneven. That Ninebot crash should have been recoverable for an experienced rider, I hit little sticks and rocks all the time. 

[dpong]

Maybe this should go in a different thread, but there is a related topic to how to avoid a fall.  And that topic is when you do fall, how to fall.   This is something worth considering.  

Having been exposed to Judo, Wrestling, and even American football, I have a lot of practice at this kind of thing.  The first point is that you must not lock your elbows and try to catch yourself using your straight locked arms.  This is how shoulders and other things are broken.  The second point is that you don't want to go 'splat' on the ground.  It is better if you can manage to roll in the direction of your established momentum.  This is my opinion, anyway. 

So, you can use your hands and arms (with elbows bent) to allow your musculature (not your bones) to slow your descent.  But equally important, try to use your musculature to continue into a roll in the direction that your momentum is already taking you. 

Disclaimer for sure:  A fall at 20 kph going up hill is going to look a lot different from a simple tumble in the grass at say 5 mph (to mix units).  

While this video makes me look a little ridiculous, I am actually proud of the falling technique displayed here.  I was riding on grass fairly slowly and the grass obscured a good sized depression in the ground, so I was not expecting it.  The wheel did not climb out of it, as I didn't really ask it to.  This is a minor spill, and just happens to be one that we caught on video.  Generally, I try not to fall, after all.    I used my hands and arms to direct into a roll forward without locking my elbows.  I think locking elbows may be the very worst mistake one could make.  

But I share it with you all in that you may try and think through 'how to fall', if you must.  

[Note: the original fall is shown at actual speed (so was going very slowly).  The second view is at 50% speed so you can gawk at my master ninja technique.]

 

[Gimlet]

Most crashes tend to be caused by complacency and familiarity.

Just let your concentration lapse and the smallest ridge or bump that would normally be insignificant can have you off. 

Basically if you have a total aversion to the odd run off or fall then you should either wrap yourself up in protective equipment or maybe decide that eucs aren't for you.

 

[Jag_Rip]

@dpong though tempting, I think I'll resist the urge to make another animated gif this time.

 

[MrBump]

I'm going to have to add 'learning to fall' to the long list of stuff to learn - thanks @‌dpong for the post.  Good advice from @Gimlet about complacency too.  Very easy to take your eye off what's in front of you.

edit:  I think I've done the tagging wrong...

[Jag_Rip]

the tagging is a bit flaky at times, if it doesnt want to work I hit enter to get on a new line, start with the @ and the first letter wait until it shows options, complete the tag and rearrange it back into the text.

[MrBump]

Cheers - will give it a go next time.

[Jdestef]

A simple spill of mine my wife caught. I couldn't decide if I was gonna go left or right. Short notice turns can be bad. Try to make sure you're thinking ahead about what you want to do, maneuver-wise.

 

 

[Michael Vu]

 

Also, what happens when you get a flat?  I would guess a slow leak would be easy to identify.  Does a quick flat cause a crash?

 

 

I've had a slow flat before, and it was definitely noticeable that something was wrong. Didn't crash as I got right off my wheel to inspect the low tire.

But I have had a quick flat once..... and I did crash during that time because the sudden loss in air pressure coupled with my firewheel's low case design caused the case to hit/scrap the ground so fast and hard that I didn't have time to slow down and catch myself. 

[Chrisxr2]

I have leapt of mine a few times now, ours wrapped I bubble wrap just in case it takes a tumble but certainly learning wiser I can't recommend the use of a safety strap enough, really saved the unit tracking a tumble a few times now. I myself am quite adept at coming off safely, thanks to my years of using a trikke carving scooter.

[vemalilu]

If you drive by an edge too close and your "pedals" touch it just a little, you will emediately fall off. Keep distance from obstacles

[Rehab1]

On August 16, 2015 at 0:03 PM, dpong said:

Maybe this should go in a different thread, but there is a related topic to how to avoid a fall.  And that topic is when you do fall, how to fall.   This is something worth considering.  

Having been exposed to Judo, Wrestling, and even American football, I have a lot of practice at this kind of thing.  The first point is that you must not lock your elbows and try to catch yourself using your straight locked arms.  This is how shoulders and other things are broken.  The second point is that you don't want to go 'splat' on the ground.  It is better if you can manage to roll in the direction of your established momentum.  This is my opinion, anyway. 

So, you can use your hands and arms (with elbows bent) to allow your musculature (not your bones) to slow your descent.  But equally important, try to use your musculature to continue into a roll in the direction that your momentum is already taking you. 

Disclaimer for sure:  A fall at 20 kph going up hill is going to look a lot different from a simple tumble in the grass at say 5 mph (to mix units).  

While this video makes me look a little ridiculous, I am actually proud of the falling technique displayed here.  I was riding on grass fairly slowly and the grass obscured a good sized depression in the ground, so I was not expecting it.  The wheel did not climb out of it, as I didn't really ask it to.  This is a minor spill, and just happens to be one that we caught on video.  Generally, I try not to fall, after all.    I used my hands and arms to direct into a roll forward without locking my elbows.  I think locking elbows may be the very worst mistake one could make.  

But I share it with you all in that you may try and think through 'how to fall', if you must.  

[Note: the original fall is shown at actual speed (so was going very slowly).  The second view is at 50% speed so you can gawk at my master ninja technique.]

 

Thanks for sharing the video! Very graceful Dpong! I am impressed! Your Judo experience definitely played a role in body awareness during that experience. If the situation ever rears its ugly head I would prefer a grassy area to land like your video as my tumbling skills are questionable. I guess I used them a few times when learning to ride but I was at a crawl and popped right up.