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MSuper V3s+ Violent Shaking


Michael Vu

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So I got my MSuper V3s+ a couple weeks ago and have been riding around on it just fine. Really been enjoying the power and speed of it. But then last week I was riding on the sidewalk going about 12 mph. It was a crappy sidewalk but still easily ridable as I've done many times before. But there was a drop in the pavement of just 2 inches. The moment I hit the drop, my MSuper V3s+ started to shake violently and then threw me off while it went forward by itself for another 10 more feet before falling down. I was able to start it back up and ride it again but this time not going more than 15 mph since I was cautious. But then 30 minutes later, I jumped off a curb (about 6 inches) and it violently shook again throwing me off. This is the shaking behavior I'm talking about (someone else's video), but more violent and extreme to where I fell off within 1-2 seconds. And again only on the landings from small jumps.

 

And here is another one of us describing a similar behavior but with the Inmotion V8.

 

So since then, I have been able to ride it at 25 mph with no shaking issues, and I've even been able to jump off curbs again no problem. Although I will say a few times when I did jump off and also when I was approaching 25+ mph, I could feel a very slight shake as if the wheel was almost on the verge of doing it again. And it doesn't feel as smooth as before.

So what could the issue be? I opened it up and made sure the axle nut was tightened which it was. I also read that it could be a defective Hall sensor? But if either issue was the cause, wouldn't this violent shaking happen the moment I just try to ride and not just happen on the landings of small jumps?

Ra5oy1t.jpg

vbQqzpi.jpg

 

3t3Zywu.jpg

And why were these plastic tubes loose on the inside of the wheel? You can can see them shoved against the trolley handle in my interior picture. I doubt plastic tubes could cause this issue but its disconcerning why they were loose in the first place. At least I have the new and improved motor wire bullet connectors..... yay....

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Those tubes are very strange. Man, Gotway still doesn't have their QA (Quality Assurance) act together. Certainly seems like your problem is related to something that is loose, or a marginal connection. Probably not a good sign for the long term because It's probably going to get worse over time and then completely fail. I have no ideas though.

Did you buy from a dealer that you can go back to?

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Normally the answer to the shaking would be

-very loose nuts

-inside broken axle

or

-hall sensor problems....

From what all i learned until today. As you said nuts are ok.....i would bet on hall sensor....

There has been a type of "failure list" GW provided to this forum, long time ago. ybut no clue where this is now!

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On 6/8/2017 at 1:18 AM, Michael Vu said:

So I got my MSuper V3s+ a couple weeks ago and have been riding around on it just fine. Really been enjoying the power and speed of it. But then last week I was riding on the sidewalk going about 12 mph. It was a crappy sidewalk but still easily ridable as I've done many times before. But there was a drop in the pavement of just 2 inches. The moment I hit the drop, my MSuper V3s+ started to shake violently and then threw me off while it went forward by itself for another 10 more feet before falling down. I was able to start it back up and ride it again but this time not going more than 15 mph since I was cautious. But then 30 minutes later, I jumped off a curb (about 6 inches) and it violently shook again throwing me off. This is the shaking behavior I'm talking about (someone else's video), but more violent and extreme to where I fell off within 1-2 seconds. And again only on the landings from small jumps.

 

And here is another one of us describing a similar behavior but with the Inmotion V8.

 

So since then, I have been able to ride it at 25 mph with no shaking issues, and I've even been able to jump off curbs again no problem. Although I will say a few times when I did jump off and also when I was approaching 25+ mph, I could feel a very slight shake as if the wheel was almost on the verge of doing it again. And it doesn't feel as smooth as before.

So what could the issue be? I opened it up and made sure the axle nut was tightened which it was. I also read that it could be a defective Hall sensor? But if either issue was the cause, wouldn't this violent shaking happen the moment I just try to ride and not just happen on the landings of small jumps?

Ra5oy1t.jpg

vbQqzpi.jpg

 

3t3Zywu.jpg

And why were these plastic tubes loose on the inside of the wheel? You can can see them shoved against the trolley handle in my interior picture. I doubt plastic tubes could cause this issue but its disconcerning why they were loose in the first place. At least I have the new and improved motor wire bullet connectors..... yay....

YOu said the problem happpended after a jump.  I would gues its is the HALL sensor cable connecting to the main circuit board. Other users had problems becuase the pins are damaged and they come loose inside the white plastic connector.

 

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Just now, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

YOu said the problem happpended after a jump.  I would gues its is the HALL sensor cable connecting to the main circuit board. Other users had problems becuase the pins are damaged and they come loose inside the white plastic connector.

 

Check the pins.  They should not move in and out.

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On 6/7/2017 at 11:18 PM, Michael Vu said:

So I got my MSuper V3s+ a couple weeks ago and have been riding around on it just fine. Really been enjoying the power and speed of it. But then last week I was riding on the sidewalk going about 12 mph. It was a crappy sidewalk but still easily ridable as I've done many times before. But there was a drop in the pavement of just 2 inches. The moment I hit the drop, my MSuper V3s+ started to shake violently and then threw me off while it went forward by itself for another 10 more feet before falling down. I was able to start it back up and ride it again but this time not going more than 15 mph since I was cautious. But then 30 minutes later, I jumped off a curb (about 6 inches) and it violently shook again throwing me off. This is the shaking behavior I'm talking about (someone else's video), but more violent and extreme to where I fell off within 1-2 seconds. And again only on the landings from small jumps.

 

And here is another one of us describing a similar behavior but with the Inmotion V8.

 

3t3Zywu.jpg

And why were these plastic tubes loose on the inside of the wheel? You can can see them shoved against the trolley handle in my interior picture. I doubt plastic tubes could cause this issue but its disconcerning why they were loose in the first place. At least I have the new and improved motor wire bullet connectors..... yay....

I just learned that the plastic 'tubes' are actually spare heat shrink tubing for the motor connectors. If you look at the motor connectors you will see clear tubing. If you ever need to replace the board and disconnect those connectors you will destroy the tubing in the process. Now you have extra tubing to resecure the connectors.

 

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Did you remove any insulation from the 3 motor wire bullet connectors?? The gold bullet connectors are suppose to be individually encapulated in a molded heat shrink material. Depicted in your photo each of the bullet connectors are currently non insulated and are making contact with each other!!

If you did not remove the insulation and your V3 arrived that way from the factory this is your problem...and a very big one! 

FYI you would need to use a shape knife to cut through the plastic insulating sheath to remove it!

 

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21 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Did you remove any insulation from the 3 motor wires?? Those bullet connectors are suppose to be individually encapulated in a molded heat shrink material. Each connector is exposed and contacting each other!!

 

Looks like it has clear Headshrink around it if you look closely

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22 minutes ago, Shabba said:

Looks like it has clear Headshrink around it if you look closely

You might be correct. If true GW is making manufacturing charges by the hour! The connectors on my new 3 week old ACM motor and board are completely different. All of the gold bullet connectors have a solid black plastic sheath. I would definately inspect this region as the heat source at the connections can melt insulation!

 

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9 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

If true GW is making manufacturing charges by the hour! The connectors on my new 3 week old ACM motor and board are completely different. All of the gold bullet connectors have a solid black plastic sheath.

Personally I think the heat shrink tubing is better because it provides a mechanical bond across the connectors. Looks like Gotway is taking the paranoid approach :thumbup:

Including extra heat-shrink tubing is a nice touch, but a little documentation/note as to their purpose would be even better.

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16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Looks like Gotway is taking the paranoid approach :thumbup:

Unfortunately I would consider this more of a cost cutting approach. If you remember the video you posted depicting the GW assembly process of the bullet connectors to the wires.  There were 6 individual steps just to fasten the black plastic insulating barrels around the motor and MB wires. The plastic barrels have been totally eliminated! Cost savings... maybe 50 cents.

I am glad my wires are double insulated!

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26 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Unfortunately I would consider this more of a cost cutting approach. If you remember the video you posted depicting the GW assembly process of the bullet connectors to the wires.  There were 6 individual steps just to fasten the black plastic insulating barrels around the motor and MB wires. The plastic barrels have been totally eliminated! Cost savings... maybe 50 cents.

I am glad my wires are double insulated!

Maybe it's a little of both :confused1: The plastic sleeves offer better protection, but the shrink wrap offers a better mechanical bond between the two halves of the connector.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I just learned that the plastic 'tubes' are actually spare heat shrink tubing for the motor connectors. If you look at the motor connectors you will see clear tubing. If you ever need to replace the board and disconnect those connectors you will destroy the tubing in the process. Now you have extra tubing to resecure the connectors.

 

I have thought that was a "guess" for what this see trough tubes are for....as nobody else found them in his wheel until now.

Why would they put them in the wheel without any notice? But even IF they are meant to be spare heat insulators.....i think they would come to late if the original melted ;-)

 

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Why would they put them in the wheel without any notice? But even IF they are meant to be spare heat insulators.....i think they would come to late if the original melted ;-)

Maybe there are more idiots out there like myself tearing apart their GW's  for no good reason!

Being that the bullet connectors are designed to come apart if you need to work on your wheel you can now cut the  clear OEM tubing, unplug the wires, do your repair, slide on the new supplied tubing, reconnect the wires, shrink the tubing and your good to go! 

The clear tubing is unique with the spiral notches. Not a hardware brand.@Jason McNeil has GW notified you of this recent update? Do you carry this tubing? If so could please ship out a sample with my order so I can test it. Thanks!

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2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

I have thought that was a "guess" for what this see trough tubes are for....as nobody else found them in his wheel until now.

Why would they put them in the wheel without any notice? But even IF they are meant to be spare heat insulators.....i think they would come to late if the original melted ;-)

 

I've seen two new wheels with these, so it must be standard equipment now.

They aren't heat insulators. They are heat-shrink-tubing. So they will only get damaged if you have to cut them off to disconnect the cabling for some reason (like swapping the control board).

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8 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Why would someone do that?  To put a high performance board in?

It burns up. Under the right conditions these boards will self-destruct. KingSong incorporates fuses to prevent this. That's why the dealers carry spare control boards for both KingSong and Gotway, and maybe others too.

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15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It burns up. Under the right conditions these boards will self-destruct. KingSong incorporates fuses to prevent this. That's why the dealers carry spare control boards for both KingSong and Gotway, and maybe others too.

ALERT:

This GOTWAY people are just crazy. They just eliminated the hard plastic black boot designed for the connector and replaced with shrink tubing! Knowing this cables get hot and knowing thes connection points have melted solder!  This is a disaster waiting to happen.  Most shrinkbtubing fill melt and fail at 135. 

And if it was a cost savings measure, then they are using the lowest cost shrink tubing made of flamable Polyoleofin. 

Different applications require different materials:

  • Elastomeric tubes maintain high flexibility even at low temperatures and meet stringent international specifications. Their operating temperature range is -75 to 150 °C. The material is resistant to many chemicals (including diesel and petrol) and has good resistance to abrasion, even in severe environmental conditions. A common shrink ratio is 2:1.[7]
  • Fluorinated ethylene propylene (FEP) is a lower-cost alternative to PTFE.[citation needed] It is a versatile electrical insulator and is inert to most chemicals and solvents. Additionally, it is highly resistant to extreme heat, cold, and Ultraviolet radiation, making it an excellent material for heat-shrink tubing applications.
  • Polyolefin tubes, the most common kind,[8]have maximum continuous-use temperatures from -55 to 135 °C, and are used by the military, aerospace and railway industries. They are flexible and fast-shrinking, and manufactured in a wide range of colors (including clear), which can be used for color-coding wires. With the exception of black, they tend to have lower resistance to ultraviolet light; accordingly, only black is recommended for outdoor applications. Polyolefin tubing shrinks at 143°C.[9] Polyolefin heat-shrink tubing typically shrinks 2:1 diametrically,[10][9] but high-grade polyolefin heat-shrink is also available with a 3:1 ratio.[7] Polyolefin tubing may withstand being touched with a soldering iron.[10]
  • PVC tubes are available in several colors and can be used outdoors.[citation needed] PVC heat-shrink tends to burn if touched with a soldering iron.[10]
  • Polyvinylidene fluoride (PVDF) tubes are intended for high temperature applications.[citation needed]
  • Silicone rubber offers excellent resistance to scrape abrasion and high flexibility. Its operating temperature range is -50 to 200 °C[citation needed]
  • PTFE (fluoropolymer) tubes have a wide operating temperature range (-55 to 175 °C), a low coefficient of friction, and high resistance to chemicals and punctures.[7]
  • Viton, another fluoropolymer with high chemical resistance, is widely used in hydraulic equipment. It is highly flexible, with a very wide operating temperature range of -55 to 220 °C, making it suitable for protecting sensitive devices against heat.[7]

Other special materials exist. 

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So here's an update.

First off I didn't see @Marty Backe and @KingSong69 posts show up at all until now. Just saw @Carlos E Rodriguez post. What's going on with that?

I've checked the 5 pin hall connector and they look to be fine and securely in their receptacles.

E21j4Bk.jpg

 

zZsyZRJ.jpg

 

eBwvHAC.jpg

 

I got mine Gotway MSuper V3s+ directly from Gotway. Linnea said the plastic tubing are heat shrinks for the motor connectors and that she will be sending me a new control board along with new PU foam. 

I will also say that the wheel hasn't been as responsive. It is still just as stiff as it was before, but I noticed I really have to lean forward more than before to achieve the same speed.

Kris liekins just posted the exact issue as mine on the Gotway Facebook group. He said him plus two other of his friends who got the MSuper V3s+ in the same batch have experienced this same issue.

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On 10.6.2017 at 9:51 PM, Rehab1 said:

You might be correct. If true GW is making manufacturing charges by the hour! The connectors on my new 3 week old ACM motor and board are completely different. All of the gold bullet connectors have a solid black plastic sheath. I would definately inspect this region as the heat source at the connections can melt insulation!

 

I have said that in another thread before....for me this looks like a new possible failure place, as when there is heat generated, the "heat shrinking tubes" will melt on and produce a short on the connectors directly?

Looks like GW is trying to figure it out - how it can work properly:-) with the users as Beta or Delta-testers :-(

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I think that as Kris Liekins said in his video comment it has something to do with the PID loop in te firmware. I fly racing drones too :-)  As I have still to receive my Msuper v3+ from Gotway I am curious on how I can 'test' this shaking..  I really don't think it is a hardware issue and thus a software issue..
It could be that the voltage difference between the V3 and the v3+ is the reason that the PID is off, as it seems they both are having the same MB and I  guess the same software.. I just don't know if the firmware can be updated by the app as I don't have my wheel yet (still riding my 9B1E+)

 

 

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8 hours ago, Michael Vu said:

So here's an update.

First off I didn't see @Marty Backe and @KingSong69 posts show up at all until now. Just saw @Carlos E Rodriguez post. What's going on with that?

I've checked the 5 pin hall connector and they look to be fine and securely in their receptacles.

E21j4Bk.jpg

 

zZsyZRJ.jpg

 

eBwvHAC.jpg

 

I got mine Gotway MSuper V3s+ directly from Gotway. Linnea said the plastic tubing are heat shrinks for the motor connectors and that she will be sending me a new control board along with new PU foam. 

I will also say that the wheel hasn't been as responsive. It is still just as stiff as it was before, but I noticed I really have to lean forward more than before to achieve the same speed.

Kris liekins just posted the exact issue as mine on the Gotway Facebook group. He said him plus two other of his friends who got the MSuper V3s+ in the same batch have experienced this same issue.

The 2-pin connector has one pin that I would consider defective. 

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