rdalcanto Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 More of a review later. Big thanks to Jason at ewheels.com. He is very fast to answer emails, and has been available by phone to answer questions. There was a small error and the accessory part of my order didn't ship, but Jason is not only shipping it out today, but throwing in a gift as well. As far as I can tell, he is the type of guy you want to do business with. I'm sure he will stand behind the one year warranty with this level of customer service. The wheel itself is gorgeous! I was worried about the lack of padding, but find it MUCH more comfortable than the Ninebot C+. On the Ninebot, I have to wear padded boots because the bottom edge of the giant "pads" hits my ankle bones and really hurts. I can't ride the Ninebot with one leg because it is too painful on my shin. To my surprise, the V8 with no pads is very comfortable. I can step on and ride with only one leg. Maybe on rougher terrain I will want to add pads, but for city riding they seem completely unnecessary. When I first got on, I nearly crashed because it seemed twitchy. 20 seconds later I was fine. Don't know if it was a difference in air pressure, or the higher pedals. I love the higher pedals. On the Ninebot, I can't do sharp turns without the pedal scraping the ground. I have not hit the ground yet with the V8. Obviously the V8 has more power and accelerates faster. My idling practice is much easier on the V8 because it changes direction from forward to reverse and back much quicker. I wasn't going to open the V8 until Christmas, but we have a major winter storm coming, and today is my only chance to ride it outside. The plan is to put the GoPro camera on the chest and go ride a golf course path with the V8 and my son on the Ninebot. Will write more later if we are successful in getting outside.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Congrats! I've said it before but have a check on what the pedal tilt setting is at. I think Jason usually ships his wheels at -3, but your's might be different. Have a play around and see what you like best. Too high and it can feel like a constant tilt-back. Too low and it can feel like your constantly facing into the ground. Have fun, get some pics going. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Great! I almost got a V8, but decided the 14C was the better choice for me for my first wheel. Jason said the V8 could be delivered by Friday and it looks like his estimate was right on target. I agree Jason is super to deal with, I didn't have much contact with him just a couple Chat questions, but the ordering and deliver went so smooth and a very accurate delivery estimate. I hope if I progress enough to get a bigger wheel in the summer I can buy it from him. Luckily it seems we have a few good dealers it seems on the forum, but eWheels just seems at the top of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Really boring video, but took the V8 to the park today. This video is right after my son got on to try it. A few seconds in you hear him accelerate and then say "I love this thing!" We had it wrapped in a disposable white fabric cover just in case, since the vinyl protection is still on the way. Not as stable at the Ninebot. The V8 gets speed wobbles the Ninebot doesn't. I think both tires are around 45psi. I still can't ride the Ninebot with one leg (too painful), but I can with the V8, which makes getting on much easier on the V8. The wobbles seemed to get better with a little time, and I think they won't be an issue with a little more practice. The stock charger on the V8 is also extremely slow, and Jason is looking into whether or not I got the right one (after 6 hours of charging it was only at 55%, and I don't think it was much lower than that when I plugged it in). The Ninebot, on the other hand, chargers very quickly. (P.S. - In the app I disable the button in the handle that shuts the wheel off when you pick it up off the ground, and put a temporary leash on it so we could keep it from tipping over and getting scratched when we jumped off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Charger update! So the charger wasn't actually charging, even though the battery gauge on the wheel was scrolling as though it was charging. LEDs on the charger were on, but the fan wasn't turning on (I thought the fan was on a thermostat). The instructions, which are clearly translated from Chinese to English, say to plug into the wheel first, then the outlet. As a fluke, I unplugged it from the wheel with it in the outlet, and then plugged it back into the wheel, and the charger fan kicked on. Definitely charging right now (both LEDs red, before they were one red and one green). I don't want to unplug anything to further test my theory about plug in order being important (and backwards in the manual) until I'm fully charged. With the Christmas weekend, if I need a replacement charger, it clearly won't get here until next week, so I'm going for a full charge right now. That is what I get for reading the instructions. I never would have plugged into the wheel before the outlet had I not read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, rdalcanto said: Charger update! So the charger wasn't actually charging. LEDs were on, but the fan wasn't turning on (I thought the fan was on a thermostat). The instructions, which are clearly translated from Chinese to English, say to plug into the wheel first, then the outlet. As a fluke, I unplugged it from the wheel with it in the outlet, and then plugged it back into the wheel, and the charger fan kicked on. Definitely charging right now. I don't want to unplug anything to further test my theory about plug in order being important (and backwards in the manual) until I'm fully charged. With the Christmas weekend, if I need a replacement charger, it clearly won't get here until next week, so I'm going for a full charge right now. That is what I get for reading the instructions. I never would have plugged into the wheel before the outlet had I not read that. @rdalcanto my ninebot would charge either way, but if I plugged it in to the wheel first it would spark. Some people suggested that it is better to plug the charger to the wall first so I tried it that way and never have got a spark since. It seems the Inmotion charger may have a safety feature that only lets it charge if plugged in to the wall first. I am glad that it is charging now. Some people have said that the spark could eventually damage the pins on the charger port of the wheel. Now I always plug the charger to the wall first. I forget what the reason was, something about the 60 volts in the battery pack jumping back out the charge port or something. With the charger powered up first, somehow it prevents that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 hour ago, rdalcanto said: A few seconds in you hear him accelerate I like the sound the wheel makes when accelerating, it doesn't sound like any other wheel that I've seen video of, my ninebot definitely does not make that powerful sound. It also looks a little faster acceleration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 24, 2016 Author Share Posted December 24, 2016 Proof that I'm not an idiot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 1 hour ago, rdalcanto said: test my theory about plug in order being important very unlikely, much more likely that something was not properly plugged. I use an AC outlet with power-on-off-switch to plug the charger, like https://www.amazon.com/GoGreen-Power-GG-13002MS-Outlet-Strip/dp/B00NY45N5G/ref=sr_1_64?ie=UTF8&qid=1482541385&sr=8-64&keywords=extension+cord https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-6-Outlet-Individual-Switches-RPS-200/dp/B005HTQAK8/ref=pd_sim_60_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005HTQAK8&pd_rd_r=3JEB7S7R8TX0HCKA1E39&pd_rd_w=0R8w8&pd_rd_wg=Mvnqa&psc=1&refRID=3JEB7S7R8TX0HCKA1E39 This prevents any sparking and I don't need to care what to plug first, as long as the switch is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 12 hours ago, rdalcanto said: The wheel itself is gorgeous! I was worried about the lack of padding, but find it MUCH more comfortable than the Ninebot C+. On the Ninebot, I have to wear padded boots because the bottom edge of the giant "pads" hits my ankle bones and really hurts. I can't ride the Ninebot with one leg because it is too painful on my shin. To my surprise, the V8 with no pads is very comfortable. I can step on and ride with only one leg. Maybe on rougher terrain I will want to add pads, but for city riding they seem completely unnecessary. When I first got on, I nearly crashed because it seemed twitchy. 20 seconds later I was fine. Don't know if it was a difference in air pressure, or the higher pedals. I love the higher pedals. On the Ninebot, I can't do sharp turns without the pedal scraping the ground. I have not hit the ground yet with the V8. Obviously the V8 has more power and accelerates faster. My idling practice is much easier on the V8 because it changes direction from forward to reverse and back much quicker. I wasn't going to open the V8 until Christmas, but we have a major winter storm coming, and today is my only chance to ride it outside. The plan is to put the GoPro camera on the chest and go ride a golf course path with the V8 and my son on the Ninebot. Will write more later if we are successful in getting outside.... @rdalcanto thanks for the update. I also just received my V8 from this same batch from @Jason McNeil. I fully agree with you that it is better looking even than I expected. I purchased the extra 2.5A charger / bra / vinyl package and have been playing around with the wheel a bit. I planned to do a longer report, but the weather is so abysmal in Chicago that I can only run it around in our garage. I haven't noticed any problems with the charger, no matter what order you plug it in. I did try to put a battery charging meter between it and the V8, but the voltage only came up at 6.8 v (the minimum on the meter); test with a standard high impedance multimeter shows ~84v (even though the the external label on the charger said 72v, which must refer to the voltage of the battery pack to be charged). So I'm guessing this arises from a negative delta V cut-off function in the charger. I'm not sure whether I'll install the vinyl (which is pre-cut) as I've turned off the disco-lights and put the bra-cover over the top of the V8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 24, 2016 Author Share Posted December 24, 2016 4 hours ago, Mono said: very unlikely, much more likely that something was not properly plugged. Maybe, but I tried charging it this morning before we went out, and again when we came back, and it would not charge either time. If something wasn't making good contact, then there must be a loose connection somewhere. Again, the wheel knew it was plugged in, because the battery gauge on the wheel was scrolling like it was charging, but the charger wasn't putting out any current based on the lack of fan noise and the battery charge level not increasing. I will do more testing tomorrow if I can ride it and drain the battery down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 6 hours ago, rdalcanto said: If something wasn't making good contact, then there must be a loose connection somewhere. That reminds me, one time not long after I got it, the charger light stayed green after plugging in the Ninebot, wasn't charging at all, finally it checked the cord where it plugs in at the charger, it had pulled out just enough to not make contact. I pushed it in tight and it has worked fine ever since. For some reason the cord going from the wall to the charger is not hardwired, it is like a computer or printer power cord. The charger outlet cord is hardwired though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 10 hours ago, rdalcanto said: Maybe, but I tried charging it this morning before we went out, and again when we came back, and it would not charge either time. If something wasn't making good contact, then there must be a loose connection somewhere. Again, the wheel knew it was plugged in, because the battery gauge on the wheel was scrolling like it was charging, but the charger wasn't putting out any current based on the lack of fan noise and the battery charge level not increasing. I will do more testing tomorrow if I can ride it and drain the battery down a bit. @rdalcanto did you buy the new 2.5A charger (this seems to be what you have based on the photo of your charger instructions)? I know that this is something that @Jason McNeil had asked for Inmotion to provide (vs. their 1.25 A stock charger) and I think it is well worth it. But I'm wondering if there were any engineering implications to the upgrade. What I have noticed in general is that the electronics (on/off, disco lights) can be a little inconsistent or erratic on the V8. In particular turning on / off the whole unit, occasionally the V8 does not know what state it is currently in or should be in. A quick on/off corrects everything. I've run the V8's internal diagnostics (on the iPhone app) and I notice the V8 has a CAN bus (Controller Area Network bus allows various microcontroller devices to communicate with each other, designed originally by Bosche for cars). DJI drones use them, and it makes sense for EUCs to use them as they get more complex. But ... I wonder if all is well all the time with the CAN bus communications. Just thinkin' out loud ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 21 hours ago, Paddylaz said: Congrats! I've said it before but have a check on what the pedal tilt setting is at. I think Jason usually ships his wheels at -3, but your's might be different. Have a play around and see what you like best. Too high and it can feel like a constant tilt-back. Too low and it can feel like your constantly facing into the ground. Have fun, get some pics going. ? No, I don't think so. My V8 from Jason came to me with a tilt of +1.0. I'm pretty sure Jason doesn't touch the settings. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 8 hours ago, rdalcanto said: Maybe, but I tried charging it this morning before we went out, and again when we came back, and it would not charge either time. If something wasn't making good contact, then there must be a loose connection somewhere. Again, the wheel knew it was plugged in, because the battery gauge on the wheel was scrolling like it was charging, but the charger wasn't putting out any current based on the lack of fan noise and the battery charge level not increasing. I will do more testing tomorrow if I can ride it and drain the battery down a bit. You probably are, but be sure that you're inserting the charging cord properly into the charging pins on the V8 Be sure the small 'tabs' on the charging receptacles line up with each other. My V8, the 'tab' is offset so I have to actually turn the charging cord that plugs into the V8. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 @Jason McNeil on the thread at ... indicated that (when he was still planning with Inmotion) that "There's a bit of hitch with the fast(er) charger plans, our preferred supplier's PCB allows charging from 0-84V. The Inmotion Engineers have (probably quite rightfully) suggested that this is changed so that anything below 40v is not registered by the charger. This consequently is going to push back the 2.5A charger procurement by two weeks but will be available to purchase a bit later." So we know that the charger itself could be confused by the voltage it sees on the V8 side ... I'm guessing the quick fix (as always) is unplug / plug the charger with the V8 in various states (on/off, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagtenor Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 On 12/23/2016 at 8:51 AM, rdalcanto said: ....On the Ninebot, I have to wear padded boots because the bottom edge of the giant "pads" hits my ankle bones and really hurts. I can't ride the Ninebot with one leg because it is too painful on my shin. .... After spending a few hours over the course of 2 days with my new Ninebot One C+, I totally agree here.. The area above my ankle joint on right leg is bruised and sore to the touch. I haven't fallen or hurt my ankle from jumping off, its the lower side padding. On my last outing today I wore my motorcycle boots and that made it much better.. I'm already considering what will be my upgrade wheel after I become more proficient on the 9B1.. This V8 seems like it would serve my purposes, I'll keep an out on this in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopsywa Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 On 12/24/2016 at 9:09 AM, Chris Westland said: So I'm guessing this arises from a negative delta V cut-off function in the charger. It definitely won't be this. Lithium Ion batteries have a very specific charge methodology and it is not delta V. It starts at a preset constant current up to the cell voltage of 4.2v per cell. At this point the voltage is constant and the current slowly diminishes to a point where the batteries are deemed "full". Different chargers may behave differently with no load, but my Gotway charger is regulated to exactly 67.2V no load. This is the exact voltage of a fully charged 16S (16 cells in series) pack. When you connect a charger that is switched off to your wheel and get a large spark, this is the result of a reasonably large capacitor in the charger, charging up. Large surges like that are not ideal for componentry and certainly not connectors. It makes sense that if a charger can be turned on safely first (according to the manufacturer), the voltage output on the charger will be close to that of the battery with no load and there will be less "surge" current when the charger is plugged in. However, if a manufacturer specifically tells you to do it a certain way and assuming the instructions are not incorrect due to bad language interpretation, I would recommend doing it the way the manufacturer recommends to avoid short, or long term damage. Sorry about the long post, the electronics technician in me just got out. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, chopsywa said: It definitely won't be this. Lithium Ion batteries have a very specific charge methodology and it is not delta V. It starts at a preset constant current up to the cell voltage of 4.2v per cell. At this point the voltage is constant and the current slowly diminishes to a point where the batteries are deemed "full". Different chargers may behave differently with no load, but my Gotway charger is regulated to exactly 67.2V no load. This is the exact voltage of a fully charged 16S (16 cells in series) pack. When you connect a charger that is switched off to your wheel and get a large spark, this is the result of a reasonably large capacitor in the charger, charging up. Large surges like that are not ideal for componentry and certainly not connectors. It makes sense that if a charger can be turned on safely first (according to the manufacturer), the voltage output on the charger will be close to that of the battery with no load and there will be less "surge" current when the charger is plugged in. However, if a manufacturer specifically tells you to do it a certain way and assuming the instructions are not incorrect due to bad language interpretation, I would recommend doing it the way the manufacturer recommends to avoid short, or long term damage. Sorry about the long post, the electronics technician in me just got out. Mark Hi Mark, and thanks for the short course in LiPo charging. Can you speak to what is going on in the battery chemistry. Is the chemistry itself causing the voltage to be constant, or is this something programmed into the charger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopsywa Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 2 minutes ago, Chris Westland said: Hi Mark, and thanks for the short course in LiPo charging. Can you speak to what is going on in the battery chemistry. Is the chemistry itself causing the voltage to be constant, or is this something programmed into the charger? I am not an expert in cell chemistry. I have just had a lot of experience with Lithium batteries from years with model aircraft and now the EUC and all cells I have seen in recent times are the 4.2v type, which I believe uses a Lithium Cobalt Nickel Magnesium anode. It is the electronics in the charger that determines the correct and constant current and voltage. However, some chargers may simply be power supplies and the charging circuitry may be in the device. This is usually the case for many appliances, but EUCs typically use a smart charger to set the correct charge parameters into the battery and the BCM board manages the individual cells. So in an EUC it is a partnership of the two components. The BCM has a transistor across each cell (or cells if the battery has parallel cells) to shunt it at 4.2V. By shunting cells that get to their nominal voltage more quickly, they can't overcharge and the cells are balanced, so when the total voltage hits 4.2v x number of cells, all cells are theoretically at that same balanced level. At this point the charger will switch from constant current to constant voltage mode. It is totally charger controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 On 24/12/2016 at 2:37 PM, Chris Westland said: 1.25 A stock charger Inmotion stock charger is actually 1.5A - just to avoid any confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 11 hours ago, chopsywa said: When you connect a charger that is switched off to your wheel and get a large spark, this is the result of a reasonably large capacitor in the charger, charging up. Large surges like that are not ideal for componentry and certainly not connectors. It makes sense that if a charger can be turned on safely first (according to the manufacturer), the voltage output on the charger will be close to that of the battery with no load and there will be less "surge" current when the charger is plugged in. However, if a manufacturer specifically tells you to do it a certain way and assuming the instructions are not incorrect due to bad language interpretation, I would recommend doing it the way the manufacturer recommends to avoid short, or long term damage. This is not exact as you have first of all wheels with and without reverse flow protection on the DC charging port and you can also have more advanced designs of the chargers which will not only prevent any charging of the DC output capacitor(s) from the charged devices but might not even apply any (considerable, only "test") current or voltage to the DC output unless device to be charged is correctly detected. But leaving such advanced chargers aside (as those are still quite rare in EUC world) even "basic" CC/CV chargers currently commonly used for EUCs, eBikes and howerboards are (or at least shall be if properly designed / tested / approved) fairly safe to be used either way. In regards of the sparking itself - if your EUC have no reverse flow protection (i.e. you can measure the battery voltage on it's DC charging port) it's more logical / safe to power on / plug in the charger first in the AC and then insert DC plug as in worst case scenario the voltage will be only difference between fully charged (default charger voltage) and discharged battery for a brief moment before charger lowers the voltage to corresponding level rather that full difference between 0V and current battery voltage. For EUCs with reverse flow protection I'd recommend plugging the DC port first and then switching on / plugging in the charger into AC socket (I personally use the remote DC socket for my chargers) as this way you'll avoid even the small voltage difference / brief current influx caused by plugging the live DC plug into socket of EUC with discharged battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shemp Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 @Chris Westland, where did you get the bra-cover and vinyl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 49 minutes ago, Shemp said: @Chris Westland, where did you get the bra-cover and vinyl? ewheels.com sells them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shemp Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Ah, didn't see them on the web site. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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