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13 minutes ago, egiljo said:

How's torque compared to ACM?

I highly doubt its only 1000w.  If it is how can it reach 50 km/ hr? It will cut out before. I think gotway is a bit confused about their own specs at the moment :) 

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18 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I highly doubt its only 1000w.  If it is how can it reach 50 km/ hr? It will cut out before. I think gotway is a bit confused about their own specs at the moment :) 

Yes, comparing to ACM with 1500w and 40-45 km/h.

It would be good to get a clarification about power/top speed/torque.

Comparison to msuper2 (hs,ms,ht) and ACM would be nice

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cloud said:

I highly doubt its only 1000w.  If it is how can it reach 50 km/ hr? It will cut out before. I think gotway is a bit confused about their own specs at the moment :) 

Typical Gotway inflation stats *smh*

I interpret this as 50kph is around the lift test cutout, which means a possibly safe buffer for 40kph real riding speed, which I think is more than enough for a lot of potential MSuper3 buyers on the forums here, including myself.

I would love to see an uphill acceleration comparison for all the > 800W wheels out today (2016 KS-18A, ACM16, and soon the MSuper3) to see how the actual motor powers stack up real world.

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1 minute ago, houseofjob said:

Typical Gotway inflation stats *smh*

I interpret this as 50kph is around the lift test cutout, which means a possibly safe buffer for 40kph real riding speed, which I think is more than enough for a lot of potential MSuper3 buyers on the forums here, including myself.

I would love to see an uphill acceleration comparison for all the > 800W wheels out today (2016 KS-18A, ACM16, and soon the MSuper3) to see how the actual motor powers stack up real world.

On FB Jane Mo said that the "lift" Cutout Speed is 60 kmh and max real Speed about 50kmh...Crazy

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11 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Wow, really? Can you please post it to the thread?

Sorry...can not find it anymore...but others (TremF) recognized this also:

and here:

 

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21 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Typical Gotway inflation stats *smh*

I interpret this as 50kph is around the lift test cutout, which means a possibly safe buffer for 40kph real riding speed, which I think is more than enough for a lot of potential MSuper3 buyers on the forums here, including myself.

I would love to see an uphill acceleration comparison for all the > 800W wheels out today (2016 KS-18A, ACM16, and soon the MSuper3) to see how the actual motor powers stack up real world.

I think the issue here is not that Gotway overstated the max speed. The issue is they are confused with the motor power rating. I dont believe its 1000w.  Its either 1200w or 1500w 

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6 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I think the issue here is not that Gotway overstated the max speed. The issue is they are confused with the motor power rating. I dont believe its 1000w.  Its either 1200w or 1500w 

With what little faith in their specs they engender, they could technically be producing a 1000W nominal motor and call it a 1500W nominal motor, and most buyers would be none the wiser.

The only way that I can think of to really tell is to have a comparison wheel of equal or greater power, and compare the uphill climbs.

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7 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@KingSong69 Yeah, I don't put much faith into all that until the actual stats are published. Plus, Urban360 Store preorder page in Paris is listing 34kph max speed; I have no clue what to believe...

They for sure just copy and past the Msuper2 stats(or forgot to edit) to get the preorder link as the first one....

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Just now, KingSong69 said:

They for sure just copy and past the Msuper2 stats(or forgot to edit) to get the preorder link as the first one....

Ah, you're probably right, very noob e-commerce admin-like mistake indeed~

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I would be cautious about stating or trusting specifications like speed without a reference weight associated with it.  For example, if the wheel can go safely at 50 kph maximum with a 100 kg rider weight on a level non-windy testing surface, that should mean there is adequate power to speed over that by a safe margin but tiltbacks prevent the rider from doing so.  If the rated weight maximum is 150 kg, they should state that this wheel can go at a maximum speed of 50 kph with a 150 kg rider.  Are they using the maximum rated weight as the test for defining the "safe" maximum speed?

How are these maximum speeds determined?  Do they run the wheel on a dyno with lateral stabilization cables and have a 150 kg weight on it at a lean to see at what speed it fails?  The problem comes if this speed is actually tested with a 70 kg rider.... anyone heavier might think they can ride the wheel at the same maximum speed as a lighter person...

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Guys guys guys - we are getting very confused here and going in all different directions, there are several distinct things going on here - lets not mix them up, otherwise we will never get to the facts.

1) what is the correct spec per gotway Gotway has to first state their specs and they need to speak with one voice. Right now different gotway reps state different specs. They need to figure out what they want to communicate for motor power 1000w, 1200w, or 1500w

2) how the motor power is defined.  we know that many manufacturers use loose or vague definitions of what the nominal and maximum power is. Gotway has been more or less consistent in how they present this. So once their testimony is established ( per item 1) this can be reconfirmed, but the assumption should be that when they communicate motor power, its nominal ( consistent with KS 800w, v5 500 w etc)

3) true speed or not. Yes many manufacturers overstate the max speed. Gotway is known for that. But lets put that aside for a moment. Lets assume the speed is correct ( in gotway's language) so we can make some comparisons. Dont bring this variable into the equasion yet - there is too many unknowns as is at his point

4h what is the maximum speed. When Gotway says max speed, we simply need to know if its the lift test no load cut out speed or maximum allowable speed before tilt back.   there is no contradiction here. The max cut out speed could be 60 but when gotway communicates the speed of 50 or 48 - that must be the maximum allowable by used setting ( also forced tiltback speed). In this scenario  it doesnt matter how heavy the rider is - the wheel will always limit the speed to 50 or 48 ( providing that the wheel can achiece this speed with this heavy rider)

5) safety margin.  this is where the riders weight comes in. It does not ( normally) define the maximum speed. It only affects the safet margin. The maximum no load free spinning lift test will show the no load cut out speed. Depending on the riders weight the safety margin will change ( ratio of free loading cut out speed, or real life cut out at riders weight to the maximum allowable max speed) the max allowable max speed does not change depending on the riders weight ( providing that the motor has enough power to carry this heavy rider at this max speed)

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I can see sort of what you're getting at, Cloud, but that's a bit of an unknown when you say in point 4h "providing that the wheel can achiece this speed with this heavy rider" and in point 5) "providing that the motor has enough power to carry this heavy rider at this max."

 I guess I try to see it from a layman's point of view - someone who doesn't think about the theory that much, doesn't visit the forums, and just sees some number values.  If Gotway is stating a wheel can go 50 KPH, they likely will think yeah I'm gonna hit that 50 KPH climbing this steep hill and show off to my mates regardless if I weigh 70 kgs or 150 kgs.  What they may not realize is that the safe maximum speed could be a lot lower as well as the faceplant speed. 

Lift test no-load speed to me at least is pretty meaningless.  It just tells people how fast the electric motor can spin at.  My cooling fan motor can spin at a very high RPM.   I can still stop it with one hand, and I can't use it to chop harder vegetables.  I think these manufacturer specifications have a lot to do with weight of the rider, and they should state the weight being referenced to make it clear and simple.

On a side note, maybe if the EUC APP requested rider weight to be entered, the wheel would have more information as to how to behave in terms of tiltback and warnings.

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42 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I can see sort of what you're getting at, Cloud, but that's a bit of an unknown when you say in point 4h "providing that the wheel can achiece this speed with this heavy rider" and in point 5) "providing that the motor has enough power to carry this heavy rider at this max."

 I guess I try to see it from a layman's point of view - someone who doesn't think about the theory that much, doesn't visit the forums, and just sees some number values.  If Gotway is stating a wheel can go 50 KPH, they likely will think yeah I'm gonna hit that 50 KPH climbing this steep hill and show off to my mates regardless if I weigh 70 kgs or 150 kgs.  What they may not realize is that the safe maximum speed could be a lot lower as well as the faceplant speed. 

Lift test no-load speed to me at least is pretty meaningless.  It just tells people how fast the electric motor can spin at.  My cooling fan motor can spin at a very high RPM.   I can still stop it with one hand, and I can't use it to chop harder vegetables.  I think these manufacturer specifications have a lot to do with weight of the rider, and they should state the weight being referenced to make it clear and simple.

On a side note, maybe if the EUC APP requested rider weight to be entered, the wheel would have more information as to how to behave in terms of tiltback and warnings.

Well, i shoukd have added a 6th item that has to do with what you are describing, but didnt want to complicate things. My assumption is that in most cases the wheel can achieve the maximum tiltback speed even at the highest riders weight. For exampke my KS14 has no problem carrying my 100kg ass plus clothes plus small back pack to the total of 105-108kg at the maximum tiltback speed of 30kph and i actually exceeded it while tiltbacking going to 33kph. So presumably ks14 can carry a 120kg person at the max speed, so other wheel possibly can also. If they cannot its a problem! . Now the cut out speed will vary depending on the weight but should probably be above the tiltback speed. If it is not this is definitely a problem.

 Now , you are totally correct about the inconsistency is some of these parameters. Climbing a hill is a good example . Can 3 conditions be met at the same time? maximum slope, max speed, maximum weight. No they cannot. someone 120kg  cannot travle 30 kph on a 20% slope on a kingsong. Even a lighter rider cannot do 30koh on a 20 degree slope. Should yhe manufacturer provide lower specs? No. They should just be more specific and state that these parameters are at nominal weight and slow speed ( say 70kg). Max speed could be reduced on a slope.  Etc

All of this is there, but when we get into these discussions we just cloud the solution to the original question. The first thing that has to happen is Gotway has to figure out what they are trying to tell us about the motor power as they seem to be confused themselves. I e heard 3 different numbers for the presumably nominal motor power. Once that is established, we can assess discrepancies and inconsistencies

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9 hours ago, Jane Mo said:

1000w motor,50km/h

Hmm. How does it manage 50km/h with only a 1000w motor? The ACM can't do it with a 1500w motor.

The spec previously posted by Linnea is below. I understand it may not have been final but it's a big drop from 1500w to 1000w and makes the ACM a more desirable option?

6 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Wow, really? Can you please post it to the thread?

@KingSong69 It was mentioned in a reply on this FB post - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/1033722760059020/

There will also be a 1640wh option at some point.

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