KingSong 18 VS GotWay MSuper 18

[Nuo Meng]

If you have either a KingSong 18 or a Gotway MSuper 18, or both, I'd like your opinion. I'd like to upgrade from a Ninebot One E+ to either the KingSong18 or MSuper18. The reasons I'm upgrading are: Larger wheel for offroad riding, Faster speed, (faster the better), Longer distances per charge, and the cosmetic appearance does not matter to me. Please tell me your pros and cons of your 18 inch EU, and if you are happy with your choice. (I'm comparing KingSong 18 and Gotway MSuper 18 because they are both available today. I would actually like to buy a Gotway MSuper3 but they won't be available for another year at least, and I don't think I can wait that long!) If you have an argument for why I should wait for the MSuper3, then I'd like to hear that too. Thanks!

[Jason McNeil]

I sell the KS18, but in my view in favour of the KS are:

1. There is space inside for additional battery packs
2. Comes with a padded seat (also provides side leg support)
3. Front and rear lights
4. USB port for charging
5. Is tall enough so that you don't need an additional carrying handle
6. If bought through https://www.ewheels.com/product/king-song-18-840wh800w-motor/ comes with a 5A fast-charger
7. Decent speed (30kph real world) tilt-back protection prevents you from becoming one with the asphalt
8. Better quality shell, less prone to fractures
9. Upgradeable pedals 

GW points are:

1. Still massive, but has a smaller bulk than the KS
2. Larger pedals 

[edwin_rm]

The 1100W motor, 1360wh battery, Chinese-market KingSong 18 is the fastest wheel there is!, with 40 km/h real speed, with tiltback! That's the cutoff speed for MSuper in real speed (with full battery). KS wheels are fast and safe. Gotway inflates specs for marketing purposes.

Irrespective of that, the new MSuper 3 looks super cool! Sometimes looks are more important. And GW is known to be the top choice when it comes to off-roading. I like it better as it's more compact. KS18 is too bulky.

[edwin_rm]

23 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

I sell the KS18, but in my view in favour of the KS are:

1. There is space inside for additional battery packs
2. Comes with a padded seat (also provides side leg support)
3. Front and rear lights
4. USB port for charging
5. Is tall enough so that you don't need an additional carrying handle
6. If bought through https://www.ewheels.com/product/king-song-18-840wh800w-motor/ comes with a 5A fast-charger
7. Decent speed (30kph real world) tilt-back protection prevents you from becoming one with the asphalt
8. Better quality shell, less prone to fractures
9. Upgradeable pedals 

GW points are:

1. Still massive, but has a smaller bulk than the KS
2. Larger pedals 

 

You forgot to mention the bluetooth audio speakers! A necessity for long trips. As proven by the classic video we all love:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GFdpCt9_tA

[Nuo Meng]

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I sell the KS18, but in my view in favour of the KS are:

1. There is space inside for additional battery packs
2. Comes with a padded seat (also provides side leg support)
3. Front and rear lights
4. USB port for charging
5. Is tall enough so that you don't need an additional carrying handle
6. If bought through https://www.ewheels.com/product/king-song-18-840wh800w-motor/ comes with a 5A fast-charger
7. Decent speed (30kph real world) tilt-back protection prevents you from becoming one with the asphalt
8. Better quality shell, less prone to fractures
9. Upgradeable pedals 

GW points are:

1. Still massive, but has a smaller bulk than the KS
2. Larger pedals 

Hi Jason,
Can you tell me how long the KingSong 18 has been in production and for sale, and if the company has plans any time in the near future for an new updated 18 inch model? If there's a faster, stronger KingSong 18 coming out soon then I might consider waiting. I read that the GotWay MSuper 18 is being phased out and is waiting to finish production of the ACM 16 inch before manufacturing the MSuper3. The future looks bright for the EU world - it's just that the future is taking so long to get here!

[esaj]

8 hours ago, Nuo Meng said:

Hi Jason,
Can you tell me how long the KingSong 18 has been in production and for sale, and if the company has plans any time in the near future for an new updated 18 inch model? If there's a faster, stronger KingSong 18 coming out soon then I might consider waiting.

I think the KS18 has been around for about a year or less. They already did upgrade it somewhat, the newer ones have 1100W motor, whereas the old one had 800W. No idea if there were other changes (firmware/mainboard components). 

[sbouju]

3 hours ago, esaj said:

No idea if there were other changes (firmware/mainboard components). 

The bluetooth version...?

 

[checho]

Pros for king song:

The largest battery pack available 1360wh

Very good customer support

Powerfull motor 1100w

Speakers, lights, seat, USB port

Easy access to control board.

Pros for Gotway:

Larger pedals, this is important for long range otherwise after 10km, the feet hurt a lot.

Choice of 3 motor windings, high speed, medium speed, and high torque.

Cons for both:

They both overheat very badly on steep hills for heavy riders, I own a ks18s and it is great just not for hills.

Conclusion for best range: King Song

For steep Hills: high torque Gotway

For Night riding: King Song

For best price: King Song once you consider the size of the battery pack.

For other cases it is a tough decision they are both good choices.

If you do go for the King Song go for the 1100w motor, the additional power will provide additional safety, and the windings of the ks motors are for speed not torque.

Additional expenses with ks, buying large pedals it is almost a must for long distance riding.

[Cloud]

I never rode gotway msuper but i rode ks18 for a week, and while i liked ks18 my next 18 incher will probably be the new msuper. Ks has many advantages but the large size disadvantage outweighs the pluses for me. i love longer range but can sacrifice the rare real long trips for the weigt and size so for me the pros/ cons are like this

KING SONG 18" 1100w PROs 

1. Built in speakers ( i love playing music when riding. I could attach a wireless bluetooth speaker to any wheel but its not the same as having it built in)

2. Ability to site down ( for me sitting down was always a very attractive feature but once i tried it , it felt unstable and somewhat uncomfortable, as you are sitting forward of the pedals and cant place the feet flat on it. Some oeple find sitting down on ks18 quite comfortable though)

3. Possibility of installing additional batteries for longer range ( for some people this can seal the deal in favor of KS. For some this wouldnt matter as they dont need the long range at the cost of higher weight and the price point)

NEW GOTWAY MSUPER High Speed PROs

1. Smaller size - id say this is the main pro that can outweigh many shortcomings. Size is what makes an euc and euc - ability to take it places and bring it into places. Less bulk will supposedly make it more manouverable but this is questionable since the ks riders could possibly control the wheel in a different way ( with their inner thighs) which can add a level of manouvarability.

2. I believe the new msuper will handle overheating better simply as the overheating temp should be 80c as opposed to 70 in KS

3. Long standing reputation and few known issues plus perceived high reliability. ( i havent heard many complaints from the gotway owners re issues/ malfunction, especially considering the number of msupers out there in relation to the number of ks18). In reality it is not easy to compare which is more reliable and less prone to breaking with very limited and perhaps skewed statistics available to us.

 

Im assuming the new msuper will have a usb port which otherwise would be a big disadvantage in relation to the ks. Lights also, however the lights in my opinion dont matter that much simply because the built in lights are not strong enough and as such an additional light will most likely be needed for both.

 

 

[johrhoj]

I do not ride the Gotway, but do ride the Kingsong (18" 1200W 1360Wh).

On my previous wheel I used to wear runner's lights while riding in the dark. With the Kingsong I have front and backlights, that automatically switch on. With the on board lights, I can actually see where I am going. I consider this a great advantage (in the winter i regularly drive in the dark, only sometimes in the summer).

I do not use the onboard USB-port (yet), nor do I use the ability to play music. I do not see/feel the advantage of sitting down. Therefore I will not list them as pro's.

A definite con is its weight, but you simply cannot get the range and speed with a lighter wheel. Another slight con is a faint high pitch noise it makes, although not nearly as annoying as the high pitched noise my nb1 made (with newest firmware). 

I feel safe going 30 km/h (having no intention to go faster) and really really like the range of 80km that i am getting from it (while weighing 110kg). The ride is really smooth and the motor silent (apart from that high pitched noise). 

[marc]

I see that people talk about the lights of Kingsong but it is a simple led lamp not CREE lamp so in dark it won't help much. besides kingsong is 800W rated power I have read.

[OliverH]

I would wait for the MSuperV3.

[esaj]

3 hours ago, marc said:

Besides kingsong is 800W rated power I have read.

The newer KS18 is said to be 1100W or 1200W rated, don't know about the max, 3000W?

[checho]

10 hours ago, esaj said:

The newer KS18 is said to be 1100W or 1200W rated, don't know about the max, 3000W?

The rated 1100w might be accurate even though my 1000w tidalforce ebike has more power, the 3000w is false, I will calculate de peak using an amp meter but it is a lot less. 

To give a rough idea the main fuse it is rated at 40A and I have never blown the main fuse even on hills, the only time the fuse was blown was due to a burn MOSFET. I have pushed the ks18a to the limit and the max app Amps is 55A in which the control boards overheats very quickly and gets permanent damage, a safe amount with proper cooling it is probably around 45A app Amps. But the app Amps are fake the real Amps are much lower, I will measure them and post here but waiting on xt60 connectors from aliexpress. A reputable member posted that the 55A fake app amps are about 30A, but that peak is with destruction of the control board.

It takes less than 10 minutes of drawings 55A app amps and the control board gets damaged.

My guess is that the peak without destruction of the control board is less than 2000w.

I define peak by a couple of minutes of drawing that current, if the definition ks is using is a couple of seconds then 3000w could be the peak at high risk of a face plant.

Saying peak and not specifing for how long it is not being specific, there are many factor like ambient temperature, but time is an important factor, vendors should specify how they define peak. My guess is that by peak they refer to a 1 second duration at that power.

If reals amps are about half app amps, and we use 46A as peak, 23A x 65v gives 1495w, so 1500w is about the peak using a very rough approximation, later on I will post a more accurate answer once I get the xt60 connectors.

[OliverH]

And we should keep in mind that the power is depended of the rotation speed. And don't forget to keep torque in the play.

The current power ratings are marketing stuff.

[US69]

On 24. Mai 2016 at 2:36 AM, esaj said:

The newer KS18 is said to be 1100W or 1200W rated, don't know about the max, 3000W?

Kingsong Is Rating it with 3500W Max...for The 1200 Watt Version....

 

[Cloud]

53 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Kingsong Is Rating it with 3500W Max...for The 1200 Watt Version....

 

Interesting how the 3500w rating is achieved in terms of the fuses installed on the battery discharge wires.

in fact, i dont quite understand how the 14" KS is rated for 3000w when the fuses installed downstream of the battery are rated for 40A ...  40A x 67V = 2,680 W...

[WakefulTraveller]

@checho Where can you buy larger pedals for the KS 18?

[checho]

29 minutes ago, WakefulTraveller said:

@checho Where can you buy larger pedals for the KS 18?

A forum member 1radwerkstatt sells the pedals, they are a lot better, they are 25 cm long, but cost $150 to $200, it is the same guy that sells the large battery packs.

[Ponne]

On 26-5-2016 at 4:04 AM, Cloud said:

Interesting how the 3500w rating is achieved in terms of the fuses installed on the battery discharge wires.

in fact, i dont quite understand how the 14" KS is rated for 3000w when the fuses installed downstream of the battery are rated for 40A ...  40A x 67V = 2,680 W...

The fuses wont blow at exact 40A. Depending on the type of fuse they can hold up to 5 times there nominal current for short times.

 

[Cloud]

3 minutes ago, Ponne said:

The fuses wont blow at exact 40A. Depending on the type of fuse they can hold up to 5 times there nomminal curent for short times.

 

Well yeah, theoretically, but mine blew instantly when i braked sharp several months back. I dont think id exceeded several times  the nominal current.

even though, its possible that the control board blew first and then the fuses...

[Villac]

I took my dog out for a walk while I rode my Msuper yesterday, when he jumped for another dog, the Msuper had more than enough energy to pull him back. He is a poodle. But a standard poodle.

[Cloud]

34 minutes ago, Villac said:

I took my dog out for a walk while I rode my Msuper yesterday, when he jumped for another dog, the Msuper had more than enough energy to pull him back. He is a poodle. But a standard poodle.

Awesome !

i think we should set up new units for measuring euc torque, sort of like car engines are measured in horse powers, we can measure euc power in "standard poodles" . My ks14 is a 15 standard poodle motor  

[US69]

10 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said:

@checho Where can you buy larger pedals for the KS 18?

Perhaps You don't Know that The "New" 1200W Version of Ks18 Is Supplied with The Same Pedals As The Ks16?

only The old 800w Version of The Ks18 has The Same Small Pedals than Ks14

[WakefulTraveller]

16 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Perhaps You don't Know that The "New" 1200W Version of Ks18 Is Supplied with The Same Pedals As The Ks16?

only The old 800w Version of The Ks18 has The Same Small Pedals than Ks14

Yes, I just found that out a few minutes ago. The new pedals seem to be just around 2cm longer. It's not much, but it is something of an improvement. I've read that one guy and his wife found these pedals uncomfortable to ride on; I wonder what that's about.

If it's not the pedal length to be concerned about, then it's the possibility of overheating or blown fuses.