RIP a very sad day...

[xiiijojjo]

8 minutes ago, Mono said:

it's not at all likely, sorry for the bad news

What I meant is that out of all my daily activities, riding electric unicycles rank as the most likely to potentially kill me. Being in traffic in any capacity is statistically the most deadly place humans spend time outside of their homes which are a lot more deadly statistically, but considering how little time you spend on the road relative to the home, the road becomes multiple times more dangerous in practice.

[Mono]

18 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

Being in traffic in any capacity is statistically the most deadly place humans spend time outside of their homes

Only about 1% of all people die on the streets or in the hospital after a road accident. That is, 99% of us die somewhere else which is often home and often not home. The most common place to die is probably a hospital or a hospice. The by far most common cause of death, ~33%, is some sort of heart failure and there are many others more common than the traffic accident.

[Funky]

I am very careful rider in general. Every time i ride - i think that my wheel gonna cut-out from nowhere, sending me flying. So i'm more or less expecting that. But somehow i still ride it everyday. I don't really wonder about how this could be my very last ride, before dying. If i had to say from what i would die. Let's just say it would not be from natural causes.. 

Looking from positive viewpoint. Going for a ride, seconds later something happens and never waking up sounds very pleasant. At least for myself.. As it all ended right there and then. Sure everyone who knew you would be very sad, etc.. But that would not really matter to yourself anymore. As it's all have ended.

 

I know it sounds very selfish/dark, but again - you're not around anymore.. But that's me - the Negative Nancy, who hates whole world speaking. 

Edited February 25 by Funky

[xiiijojjo]

9 hours ago, Mono said:

Only about 1% of all people die on the streets or in the hospital after a road accident. That is, 99% of us die somewhere else which is often home and often not home. The most common place to die is probably a hospital or a hospice. The by far most common cause of death, ~33%, is some sort of heart failure and there are many others more common than the traffic accident.

Sorry I was tired when sending that message. I meant the most statistically deadly but only when it comes to accidents.

6 hours ago, Funky said:

Looking from positive viewpoint. Going for a ride, seconds later something happens and never waking up sounds very pleasant. At least for myself.. As it all ended right there and then.

That's if you're lucky... I've seen too many videos of moped accidents in places like Thailand or India where the rider doesn't die right away...

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

That's if you're lucky... I've seen too many videos of moped accidents in places like Thailand or India where the rider doesn't die right away...

That's why i said seconds. Most pleasant would be instant death.. No pain, no nothing. One moment you where here and next puff - you're gone.

Edited February 25 by Funky

[Unventor]

I just saw this thread. Yet another sad new or story that hit our community.

Any can debate back and forth but it doesn't change the blunt direct outcome of this life that stop.

It isn't the first nor the last we will hear about. 

I posted about an accident I had some time back on my KS18L, long boarder that took both lanes on a bottle neck bikelane forcing me to react and ended in overreacting and dislocated my shoulder. I were geared up, and due to that it only dislocated.

I just bought a V14 50S. That thing is fast very fast. But I also know my limit as I have locked it to 40kmh top speed and warning at 38kmh. I ride in full MC gear and FF carbon helmet. But that do still not take away the good dession responsibility we as riders have.

I hope our community help each other out remembering accidents do happen, but let's us not get used to these.

I had a cousin. He died..doing what he loved, skydiving. He was very good at it and very experienced with 1200+ jumps. He completed with out national team. I have never seen so many people to a funeral.

The comfort I saw in this he was loved, a great guy that tougher many people. And he did what he loved, with the knowledge of the risks.

I hope this guys family can say the same.

[DavidB]

On 2/24/2024 at 10:24 PM, Panzer04 said:

In the interest of helping others avoid a similar crash, the working theory among locals is that James was simply going too fast. The trail in question is concrete, but is covered by a substantial amount of leaf litter in various places.

It is believed that he was travelling at speed, crossed the leaves, lost traction through the (relatively light, it must be said) corner and thereafter lost control. He may have been avoiding oncoming cyclists, increasing his turn angle and increasing the likelihood of slipping, or he lost traction in a classic single vehicle accident - we don't know those details.

I agree with sentiments around good/safe decision making - such as riding at safe speeds for a given environment. One should travel at bike speeds on bike paths and save higher speeds for the open road, which better accommodates it.

 

I agree. 

[DavidB]

There is also the peripheral consequences of this unfortunate accident. James was the father of a young child who will now be fatherless. His siblings and partner will have lost a loved one. My understanding is that presently it is illegal to ride EUCs in Victoria and a minimum $925 is payable. The fact that Victorian EUC riders feel comfortable enough to post videos of group rides etc on YT suggests the police tolerate them. The media attention surrounding this unfortunate accident I suspect will change that for the Melbourne EUC community.

It is not just your loss. But others are affected as well.

[Aztek]

5 hours ago, DavidB said:

will change that for the Melbourne EUC community.

Problem is, how would/could the politicians/community regulate EUC riding in response?!

Make all EUCs ride only on streets with traffic? That's boring and unacceptably dangerous.

Make them ride only on bike lanes with max speed of 15 km/h? That's boring and restrictive.

Do the easy thing, which actually they tend to do - forbid EUCs. That's it. This is what we'll get when the incidents cross the critical threshold and someone has to do something about it.

This will be the end result of the EUC riders' stupidity.

From a peculiar transport, watched by the public with curiosity and smile, EUC will become feared and hated.

Simply put, there is no way to infuse common sense in some reckless people. It's the human nature.

[Mono]

@Aztek there exist various EUC legislations all over Europe and none of them is reflected in the options you were giving.

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Aztek said:

Do the easy thing, which actually they tend to do - forbid EUCs. That's it. This is what we'll get when the incidents cross the critical threshold and someone has to do something about it.

This will be the end result of the EUC riders' stupidity.

Good one.. Had good laugh.  

Do you think people will stop riding their 2000-5000$ EUC suddenly when "law" changes? (Getting banned) Nah.. Not happening. I personally don't need that expensive paper weight. I would not give 2 ducks if they suddenly banned EUC in my country. Simply because i ride sidewalks and never see police. Over 3 years i never seen police on my commute route. (And even my "fun" adventures around city.) And if i saw them - i simply would take longer route around them..

Ohh and EUC is banned on streets here.. And we don't have bike lanes.  We can ride where ever we want - same as E-scooters. As long you stay on sidewalks. And stay around 25kmh speeds while doing it. But that doesn't stop us riding even 40kmh sometimes. (Empty straight pathway.. Out of city. Or even in city sometimes.)  

11 hours ago, Unventor said:

I just bought a V14 50S. That thing is fast very fast. But I also know my limit as I have locked it to 40kmh top speed and warning at 38kmh. I ride in full MC gear and FF carbon helmet. But that do still not take away the good dession responsibility we as riders have.

Had to mention - 38/40 those are my 18xl alarms. Exact same numbers.  38kmh very quiet beeps. 40kmh very loud beeps + voice alarm. (I don't use tilt-back, because i always hear first alarm. And i ride around 35kmh normally, if i don't speed up - i never hear the alarms. And at daily commutes i'm keeping it around 20-25kmh, because lack of gear.) 

Edited February 26 by Funky

[Aztek]

5 hours ago, Mono said:

@Aztek there exist various EUC legislations all over Europe and none of them is reflected in the options you were giving.

Care to share what are they?

Edited February 26 by Aztek

[Aztek]

4 hours ago, Funky said:

Good one.. Had good laugh.  

Do you think people will stop riding their 2000-5000$ EUC suddenly when "law" changes?

Depends on the degree of law enforcement in the country. Latvia is not Germany, nor Sweden.

If one gets hit with 1000 EUR penalty each time they get out with it, yes, they will definitely stop riding.

Edited February 26 by Aztek

[Funky]

44 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Depends on the degree of law enforcement in the country. Latvia is not Germany, nor Sweden.

If one gets hit with 1000 EUR penalty each time they get out with it, yes, they will definitely stop riding.

Yeah - as i said i never see police. If i would encounter them regularly on daily bases. It would be different story.. 

Some dipshit suddenly made up new rules/laws out of blue.. I'm not interested. I am not doing anything wrong and i am minding my business.

 

Some scenarios: Ohh sorry officer i didn't see/hear you there. As i turn 180degree around and hightail away from them. Even if they are screaming at me.  

Doubt i would do that.. Trying to run. But turning and simply riding away, if i saw them at distance 100% yes. I'll continue doing my thing and i don't care. 

 

Banning things that people have used over years are the most dumb thing they can do. Because people will not stop using the things that they bought. And won't like to change.

Time changes and those dipshit in power should change with it. Or at least try to keep with it.. Luckily EUC and E-Scooters can be put in same category (In my country we got E-scooters and their laws/rules.)  So simply adding EUC to Scooters are easy and fast fix.

The problem start with those monster EUC's that like to ride on streets.. I don't care about them. Same way they don't care about us sidewalk scrawlers.. Those monster EUC's need riding licenses, number plates and paperwork done. Same as cars and motorcycles. Simply for fact they ride same streets.

Edited February 26 by Funky

[Mono]

44 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Care to share what are they?

yes, I don't quite get why you don't try to inform yourself before posting

you could also google "site:https://forum.electricunicycle.org legislation" or...

[Aztek]

8 minutes ago, Mono said:

yes, I don't quite get why you don't try to inform yourself before posting

Probably cause I don't expect to insult you by this. And cause I don't care too.

[Unventor]

Please this thread theme do honour it with the respects to those that knew the person and might be present here at the forum. 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Please this thread theme do honour it with the respects to those that knew the person and might be present here at the forum. 

That's what i also wanted.. Till some mod said it otherwise. So??? I said whatever. Life lost not a big deal - let it be lost in nonsense tread. 

 

On 2/22/2024 at 12:07 AM, Funky said:

Stop talking about: small vs big wheels, speed, bike lanes, what's safe or not safe..

Leave this tread alone. Say some good, heartfelt words to passed one. Otherwise zip it. Show some respect?!

 

On 2/22/2024 at 1:08 AM, null said:

I don’t see why one shouldn't be allowed to comment on news on this forum, or where you get the authority to police this thread. AFAIK neither the riders family nor himself where part of this community, and as tragic as it is for the close ones (and I know this first hand), at this distance it is just sad news that touch us because EUC.

If OP (or other mods) wants this to be a condolence thread he can decide so as far as I’m concerned, and those who are interested in investigating the reasons of this can make a separate thread. In the meantime, you, @Funky, are not in a position to order people to “zip it”.

 

 

[Glock43x]

wow.. sad. even though i don't know the full detail, I bet speed was the main factor. I have never done more than 25mph on my 16x even though it can do 30mph. I'm gonna get a lynx soon and no way I will go over 30mph. majority of the time, i'm just cruising around 20mph. i preferred distance vs speed.

[MadVlad]

On 2/24/2024 at 5:30 AM, Funky said:

Defensive riding.

Looking out for any danger a head of time are way better, than any gear.. Mitigating chances of getting into accident in first place makes gear absolute. Gear is somewhat useful - only when it's too late.

By riding slower, watching out for incoming dangers, things that may make you crash are much better. Than relying on gear that may or may not save you..

 

 

Viewpoint from someone who doesn't use gear for his daily commutes. (For reference: I ride empty-straight-sidewalks. And my commute is ~3km. You won't be going crazy speeds on sidewalks in first place..)

I can tell you my experience: I am only alive today because of a helmet. I have been riding for 20 years, ridden very fast bikes in a very bad way in my younger years, but the crash that almost killed me was around 30mph, it happened because a car pulled out in front of me and boxed me in, I saw it happening, but I simply had nowhere to go, it was a choice of "crash in this way, or in that way, but you are crashing". If I didnt have my full face helmet on that day I would have died, as it is I almost ended up paralyzed (helmet saved from that as well). Sometimes things are simply outside of your control no matter how aware and skilled you are.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

32 minutes ago, Glock43x said:

I bet speed was the main factor.

First off i would like to give my condolences to his friends and family, it was a tragic accident. I have heard speed mentioned a few times but by the look of the scene i would guess the sudden stop was the issue. Looks like he may have hit one of those immovable railing posts and even at 10 mph it could be fatal. Point being, I myself try to steer clear of bike paths. I feel safer in the street with the cars strangely. Bike paths have lots of immovable objects , trees,guard rails,poles within inches of the path itself. On the street, you have more room IMO.

[xiiijojjo]

As a skilled and experienced rider myself, I used to have this youthful sense of immortality when driving around with no gear.
A couple of trips to the hospital, a handful of broken wrists, and a few close calls later and I invested in a carbon fiber motorcycle helmet, wrist guards, knee & shin protectors, elbow & forearm protectors. 

Interestingly the day after I got my helmet I had a bad crash that was also a really close call, and I'm almost convinced my kneecaps would have been ground down to nothing if not for my knee & shin protectors. 

Riding skill will only postpone the inevitable... Half of my crashes were the fault of other drivers, and no amount of skill could have saved me.

I know I've always been a speed demon and that @Funkyisn't, but I used to think like him, and most of the crashes I had was driving at the low speeds he does (top speeds back then) but that's also the speeds that got me hospitalized. It's probably only a matter of time before drivers like him learn the hard way, but I truly hope that never has to happen, but I don't think we should promote the idea of riding without gear in 2024, even IF you only go slow. 

I was emboldened back then watching riders full send in no gear and thought people looked like dorks with gear on, now I think people without gear look like retards. At this point you can get gear that only takes 1 minute to put on/ take off, and you can get cool gear too, so I don't think there's much of an excuse for riding without anymore. 
However you're an adult so choose for yourself, but it's emboldening others to risk their lives more than necessary. 

Edited February 27 by xiiijojjo

[Panzer04]

19 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

As a skilled and experienced rider myself, I used to have this youthful sense of immortality when driving around with no gear.
A couple of trips to the hospital, a handful of broken wrists, and a few close calls later and I invested in a carbon fiber motorcycle helmet, wrist guards, knee & shin protectors, elbow & forearm protectors. 

Interestingly the day after I got my helmet I had a bad crash that was also a really close call, and I'm almost convinced my kneecaps would have been ground down to nothing if not for my knee & shin protectors. 

Riding skill will only postpone the inevitable... Half of my crashes were the fault of other drivers, and no amount of skill could have saved me.

Although I've always been a speed demon and that @Funkyisn't, but I used to think like him, and most of the crashes I had was driving at the low speeds he does (top speeds back then) but that's also the speeds that got me hospitalized. It's probably only a matter of time before drivers like him learn the hard way, but I truly hope that never has to happen, but I don't think we should promote the idea of riding without gear in 2024, even IF you only go slow. 

I was emboldened back then watching riders full send in no gear and thought people looked like dorks with gear on, now I think people without gear look like retards. At this point you can get gear that only takes 1 minute to put on/ take off, and you can get cool gear too, so I don't think there's much of an excuse for riding without anymore. 
However you're an adult so choose for yourself, but it's emboldening others to risk their lives more than necessary. 

Riding skill helps get you out of sticky situations, riding sense avoids those situations in the first place. Don't do 60kph on a closed, constrained bike path with limited sightlines, and you already eliminate the most dangerous possibilities altogether. As others have mentioned, the road is often going to be safer, especially if moving at speed. Drivers are vigilant (generally) for other drivers and riders, pedestrians and cyclists are not. It's uncomfortable, for sure, to share the road with cars - but if you ride predictably you are assuredly safer. Vehicular cycling is a bit of a bad word in cycling circles, but I think it's an extremely appropriate mindset to have if riding an EUC on-road, especially as EUCs are better suited to functioning seemlessly in car traffic thanks to their better speed.

Roads are usually designed with clear sightlines, plenty of room (especially if you're on an EUC), relatively smooth, and clear of debris. None of these apply for the majority of pedestrian/cyclepaths. They aren't designed with people traveling at speed in mind. I understand riding a cycle path to get away from cars, but if you do that I think you also need to maintain the mindset of limiting your speed to that of a bike, not a high-performance EUC.

[Mono]

13 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I have heard speed mentioned a few times but by the look of the scene i would guess the sudden stop was the issue.

Right, this is what people generally mean when they say that speed is the issue, rapid deceleration: the only problem with speed is hitting objects that don't move (or move at a significantly different speed) and stay put (or have a significant mass, hence stay put).

Edited February 27 by Mono

[Funky]

5 hours ago, MadVlad said:

I can tell you my experience: I am only alive today because of a helmet. I have been riding for 20 years, ridden very fast bikes in a very bad way in my younger years, but the crash that almost killed me was around 30mph, it happened because a car pulled out in front of me and boxed me in, I saw it happening, but I simply had nowhere to go, it was a choice of "crash in this way, or in that way, but you are crashing". If I didnt have my full face helmet on that day I would have died, as it is I almost ended up paralyzed (helmet saved from that as well). Sometimes things are simply outside of your control no matter how aware and skilled you are.

That's the thing - i don't have any car pulling out of blue no wear.. I ride sidewalks that have big grass fields each side of it. (I can see 1-2km ahead of time.) And more or less it goes straight. Only place where i really need to look out is the road crossing. And i see maybe 1-5 people long the path. And i ride the same path 2 times per day every working day.

4 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

As a skilled and experienced rider myself, I used to have this youthful sense of immortality when driving around with no gear.
A couple of trips to the hospital, a handful of broken wrists, and a few close calls later and I invested in a carbon fiber motorcycle helmet, wrist guards, knee & shin protectors, elbow & forearm protectors. 

Interestingly the day after I got my helmet I had a bad crash that was also a really close call, and I'm almost convinced my kneecaps would have been ground down to nothing if not for my knee & shin protectors. 

Riding skill will only postpone the inevitable... Half of my crashes were the fault of other drivers, and no amount of skill could have saved me.

Although I've always been a speed demon and that @Funkyisn't, but I used to think like him, and most of the crashes I had was driving at the low speeds he does (top speeds back then) but that's also the speeds that got me hospitalized. It's probably only a matter of time before drivers like him learn the hard way, but I truly hope that never has to happen, but I don't think we should promote the idea of riding without gear in 2024, even IF you only go slow. 

I was emboldened back then watching riders full send in no gear and thought people looked like dorks with gear on, now I think people without gear look like retards. At this point you can get gear that only takes 1 minute to put on/ take off, and you can get cool gear too, so I don't think there's much of an excuse for riding without anymore. 
However you're an adult so choose for yourself, but it's emboldening others to risk their lives more than necessary. 

The thing is - my commute is ~3km long. And i have train ride in middle of that. I don't really want to use helmet on train, etc.. Sure i still use wrists guards (Don't leave house without them.) As said "upper post" i have very smooth riding conditions. Only when EUC stops working mid ride i will crash. And i'm okay with that. 

Somehow i'm okay and my old man also is okay, and he has ridden even more than me without gear. In mind i'm ready to fall in any given moment - that's how i ride. 

I very well know the dangers..

Edited February 27 by Funky