Padless control leg adhesion

[novazeus]

haha, i'm bad mouthing this new 90/90 city grip 2, and part of what i said is true, 

but haha, stupid me, i can walk on my dinged knee, put weight on it, but range of motion without pain isn't there yet.

so us padless riders, much like motorcycle riders, point the left knee out, and the right knee against the motorcycle. that was ok, but whether u realize it or not, i do because of the pain, u have to put the right knee out coming out of the corner, and my knee wasn't willing to go in that particular direction at that moment in the curve. i moved my right foot to the outside of the pedal to get more leverage. 

bottom line, unless it's a slow crawl to get a lightweight package, until my knee says it's ready, no tire evaluations. 

the 80mm tire we know is more nimble, and that's why it required less range of movement from my knee. 90mm is less nimble, but has lots of potential adding to ur suspension set up. 

i'm gonna get serious about "RICE", rest, ice, compress and exercise. Bob makes sure plenty of walking is necessary. 

but to answer the questions on padless, we use our legs for balancing. we use our feet for accelerator, clutch and brake. 

and this leg adhesion thing is about when u step off the wheel the momentum doesn't escape ur leg control. in my case, left leg dominant, i really only need one side for now. with the small wheels, i could do the one leg exercise where u control the wheel with one leg and swish it back and forth, but with a 75 pound wheel, and hard plastic against hard battery case, when i step off, unless i slow to a standstill, the s22 wants to keep going. 

i have the upper pads installed on the v13's and they might work with these smaller knee guards. the leatt knee braces were wedge in the pads. but i put them on for the same reason, one leg control, although the v13's might give me  a groin pull.

chooch does a great job in this video. i love reviews where i can watch the wheel perform.

 

and in this one he demonstates very well how he uses his legs outside the pads. idk if it's this one, but in one video he was saying he liked only using the toe thing. but yeah, my knee isn't capable of this range of motion.

 

yeah, haha, i needed just a little bit of this coming out of my left turn, and my knee said "not today". i noticed my rh turns were wider than usual at speed. 

 

 

Edited January 12 by novazeus

[Mono]

3 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

This is a very interesting question, at the start it was a concern and I did bounce around the pedals a bit but over time it's now never an issue, its like your body responds to the wheels movements and stops you from bouncing off, I'm not sure how tbh.

Interesting observation, I feel I can mostly second this. Do you feel comfortable going over cobblestone without squeezing the wheel?

Edited January 12 by Mono

[Barefooter]

This topic really caught my attention today as my slow mind had been arriving at the same set of conclusions...  At least for my riding style, or lack there of.

I started on a V8S with no power pads but always thought they must be required for bigger wheels based on all the videos.  I got a Patton and used the pads eWheels included but really, really didn't like them if in a locked in format.  I had them wide spread and mainly for extra braking.  I also removed the toe keepers that come on the patton as they just got in the way of my size 14US bozo feet.  I have an ongoing concern that front pads have the real possibility of causing the wheel to rotate more during a crash than without them.  That rotation would likely take a foot with it and cause issues.

I started playing with seated riding a couple weeks ago and removed the front pads so sitting motion was more straight.  To my surprise i found acceleration much more natural and easy.  Point my toes down and it goes.  No issue getting to speed as quickly as I ever need to.  The remaining concern was how to protect the wheel if the pads are there to take some of the beating..  This thread presented a few options which will be put in place as soon my street to offroad tire swap is complete.

[novazeus]

this is the video i saw of chooch riding the lynx. he's never using the pads.

 

[Mono]

34 minutes ago, novazeus said:

he's never using the pads.

totally weird, but it really looks like he doesn't 

I am now almost getting convinced that power pads are not necessary at all even for max acceleration (which is around 1g).

[4:52 He does call the Lynx "lightweight" LOL]

EDIT: at 12:53 and 13:01 he might be using the pads though

Edited January 12 by Mono

[novazeus]

in my video from two weeks ago before whacking my knee, u can see my legs aren't adhered to the small piece of yoga mat i mounted for stepping off and on adhesion. 

i'm only trying this new waist trimmer belt neoprene idea is because of my desire to wear knee guards and i dislike the company of fat girls and fat wheels. so the skinnier i can make it, an still have grip stepping off is what i'm after. 

someday before i die, i might be able to do the one leg control exercise with my v13's.

 

[Ronin Ryder]

I have documented below some bits of @houseofjobriding technique without pads. A recommended watch for riders who are interested in padless.  

 

Edited January 12 by Ronin Ryder

[novazeus]

26 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I have documented below some bits of @houseofjobriding technique without pads. A recommended watch for riders who are interested in padless. 

 

yup, that's my method.

except my pedals are in expert or hard mode on all wheels. 

freaks me out if i input and nothing happens. 

but u can stand erect on a hard floor, and transition ur weight back and forth between ur heel and the balls of ur feet. in the case of my lowered moved forward pedals on my s22's i can use my big toes for leverage as well.

when i was learning, @houseofjobencouraged my method. 

i agree with everything he says. hard mode is more difficult. but i'm a package delivery wheel driver. no arm swinging, just keeping ur load as centered as possible close to my trunk and out of the wind. 

i wish the new wheel riders would learn padless and hard tires. on pavement, not trails. 

for instance, if i had to ride in nyc, my tire pressure would go down a bit, but for practicing out here before my trip to nyc, i want the wheel as difficult as possible, so when i'm in the wild, i look as good as chris. i practiced alot on my harley's before ever riding the mean streets. u can't practice too much. ur body and brain are faster than any supercomputer, unless i missed a robot riding a wheel.

Edited January 12 by novazeus

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

Do you feel comfortable going over cobblestone without squeezing the wheel?

I do, but bare in mind my wheel has suspension so its not that noticeable. If i'm going down a local steep path with close together speed bumps that i have in my area I do squeeze the wheel then. I don't squeeze the wheel on trails but let the wheel float between my legs mostly (which I guess is a pretty normal method). Although I could also be squeezing the wheel without realising it sometimes, that could certainly be a possibility too.

On trials the jump blocks do help if going more extreme, but they never tie me in just help with any serious vertical movement. Again I don't need to use them something does change in the way I ride when I have them which I can't pinpoint at this time.   I stress I don't go that hard and the S18 is very underpowered so its unable to do much without a lot of momentum behind it first. On braking I don't have any pads and feel very safe doing so, but my wheel is very light. I'm sure with a heavier wheel it would be beneficial to have some sort of pad, but I won't want to be locked in either way. 

[null]

3 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I have documented below some bits of @houseofjobriding technique without pads. A recommended watch for riders who are interested in padless.

Thanks for making the video and sharing, I remember he thought of making one but it didn't happen. I'm still not sold on the effort / complication / result ratio of that technique but cool its around, and I appreciate houseofjob for all his detailed posts on different stiffness modes and other rides.

I use soft mode to have a bit more motion to play on, and press on the front of the feet in case normal lean isn't enough. While you can probably accelerate faster, I'm already faster than the delivery guys gas mopeds while using a Sherman OG which is known to be a bit sluggish at low speed.

edit: Oh, and no arm swinging, I'm not a New Yorker  

Edited January 13 by null

[Hellkitten]

Ok, just watched that Chris Yim video and he rides in soft mode. He offers an interesting perspective on acceleration style. I need to try it. I generally ride in hard or medium mode. What mode do you all ride in? 
 

There’s been some talk here about getting locked in to your pads on this thread, but the nice thing about them is they’re adjustable and you set them in place according to personal preference. Some people like em’ loose some tight. I know riders that change them depending on what they’re doing.
I have absolutely hit some potholes and obstacles that would have tossed me off of my wheel without pads, it seems safer to me (true or not). 
I have my front pads set up so I only touch them when I lean into them for leverage or just the top of my boots for jumping. The rear pads are high up and are mostly used for gripping while braking, they don’t lock in my feet to the front ones at all. I have my pedals angled to -4 forward. I’m not stuck into them, but because you can lean fully back and into the rear pads and hook your toes into the front, I can move my weight further back then if I rode without. I mostly do urban riding. Lots of starts, stops, traffic, curbs, stairs, potholes. I would get bounced into traffic without having pads or suspension.
Pads absolutely suck for seated riding, one of the temptations of those power knobz. @novazeus As far as free mounting large wheels I think pads make that much easier. I can get leverage and control over the weight much better then without. I’ve ridden a v13 for a week and for me I needed pads to maintain any control over that wheel. 

[novazeus]

7 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

I’ve ridden a v13 for a week and for me I needed pads to maintain any control over that wheel.

most definitely. the texture of the stock pads and width will be fine i think with the less protective $100 leatts. and the neoprene wrap works great on the pads for holding adhesion stepping off and on. the hard plastic of the knee guards have no adhesion on the stock pads. and the v13's pads are very mild and rounded. the bottom ones just protect the wheel, i never get near those. i love that upper hook pad on the v13. hooks on my 4x4's nicely. and my leg stepping off. but i still have enough room as a foot driver to make the wheel go and stop using mind control.

[Cerbera]

5 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

What mode do you all ride in? 

I've been in hard mode for all my wheels except the Master, which I have latterly come to prefer in Medium, which I like because it's nice to have a bit of give and faster acceleration when trying to get that big heavy thing moving from standstill.

I didn't have pads with either Airwheel (14 inch) or MS3 (18 inch) and on those used baby bumper strip not only to pad the wheel but to give my Leatts better grip when needed, not that that was needed more than rarely because I always had quite a wide stance on those wheels, and my legs didn't really contact the wheel much. getting bumped off pedals was an occasional problem.

On the Master, with Grizzlas, which I would say were a transformative addition to that wheel in terms of unlocking its power and torque, I am quite entrenched in the opinion that only the bigger wheels (20 inch+) which 'need' power pads. And now I am used to them I wouldn't like to ride without them. The pads are mostly what guarantee consistency of foot placement, and as I have mine positioned so I am constantly in contact with one or other of them they have added a level of subtle correctional / directional control that I would miss if they weren't there, as well as the much improved acceleration / braking. As this wheel is a lot wider than those I had before I do find my legs are more in contact with the body of the machine more often, and once again baby bumper strip (between pads) does a lovely job for me of cushioning leg / wheel contact areas and covers the gap on that model between top of packs and start of seat, so is also part of waterproofing improvement.

 

 

[Ronin Ryder]

4 hours ago, Voyager said:

I remember watching that video when you made it @Ronin Ryder Thanks for posting it here.

Also enjoyed your conversation with Chris in your Patton video about six months ago, and his thoughts at the time. Not only a great rider, an intelligent guy too.

Really enjoyed watching both Chris and Tishawn back in the day. Great videos from riders with that inimitable NYC style.

If anyone's interested, have a look at this from over five years ago.. Back when 18XL was new. Not a 'power pad' in sight.  

One of my favourite productions from back then.

 

Thanks! Im like you i like the old school riders, each had a very distinctive style, because pads barely existed at that time. Riders had to figure out ways to ride, no uniform Michael Jackson lean racing type like we see nowadays. I have a new one coming with Chris and the Lynx. I tried to get Tishawn but he's hard to catch.... 

Edited January 13 by Ronin Ryder

[novazeus]

still can't play outside because of my knee, but i did try a little one leg drill inside, and this waist trimmer belt thing is perfect. 

i can't wait until my knee is well enough. i'll be a freemounting fool soon. 

the added benefit is it adds very little thickness, and helps hold the knee guards in place. when contacting the wheel mounting or dismounting, the neoprene clings to each other very well.

 

[novazeus]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:03 AM, Ronin Ryder said:

Tishawn

glad tishawn is still alive and well. i'm curious about some of the other forum members of old, but afraid to ask. that's how i learned. monkey see, monkey do. 

[novazeus]

the leg wrap worked great today with my v13. right knee is still whacked, but when it heals, i'll show u some real leg control. 

[novazeus]

and of course after i say i don't ride in the rain, i ride in the rain to pick up my knee support thing. 

so didn't really play with one leg control in the rain, but the leatts are comfortable and will work in this setup with the s22's but not with the v13's small pad opening. 

waah! after spending hours getting the pads tolerable for me, my new knee guards are gonna make me ditch them.

oh well, i like thin, so more waist trimmer belts.

they do keep the guards nicely secured, and with all these leg breaks, extra wrap can't hurt.

 

[jimjam.nyc]

Love this thread! I have been a no pad rider from the start. I tried all sorts of pads and just never really liked or stuck with them. 

I do like having the foot lock in a loose position (not fully locked in) just for some extra protection from flying off the foot plates when i catch myself not paying attention. 

Potholes can catch ya off guard over here and I almost bit it a few times before my Patton with the foot lock. 

The only thing I will say, is that I only ride 16 inch wheels.. So I cant comment on bigger wheels and the need for pads. But for me at least on the 16inch wheels I have ridden I just like having the freedom of movement more than being locked in. 

Oddly enough i find having that freedom to shift my weight makes it actually easier to accelerate and brake. That is just me though.. I am not an overly aggressive rider. 

[o u euc 2]

When I get my Lynx back, I'm definitely taking the front pads off, and just leave the toe gaurds, so I can lean without bowing my legs so much.

I couldn't learn how to ride seated on the V12 until I took the front ones off.

I gotta have break pads tho, at least preferr to.

I'm still a pretty new rider with around  1500 miles under my belt, but I'm sure loving it!

Edited January 26 by DumbWheel

[novazeus]

success finally!

i joined this forum in 2017 because while staying at las olas marina in 2015 i saw a guy with one of these about 100 yards away.

so i found this forum and bought a king song 18s for exercising Bob and to use on the ranch for surveillance. Bob and i did our thing for awhile, but i figured out that Bob likes more leisurely stolls with me than flat out jogging.

and the forum members including @Marty Backethought pasture riding would be impossible. kinda funny after watching marty's and roger's recent rides on trails i wouldn't walk on. 

but finally, with the new suspension wheels and a zero turn mower and 920 pound lawn roller, i have a highway of wheel paths i can see all my property and cows. plus probably get the best exercise known to humans.

here's today's ride. everyday, and everyday a longer ride. visibility to the coyotes is vital.

oh yeah, did all this padless, just the waist trimmer belt on the wheel. forgot my waist trimmer leg wraps, didn't need them, the leatts adhere to the neoprene enough. 

but i will say that because of the van's hiking boots i wear, i need all the shoe adhesion i can get with the vicious tape over the spikes. the spikes wouldn't be enough on my washboard pastures. it's non-stop teeth chattering. 

excited because tmrw i'm gonna fine tune the s22's suspension a little. add some shock and damper. 

and if somebody is smarter than me, pls look at my chart from today. i do have some hills i climb but the motor seems happy. 

haha, and btw, of my 4 variants of wheels, for pasture, v13 knobby, v13 michelin, s22 pro 90/90 michelin and diy s22 pro. the best suspension so far, the diy s22 with the 80/90 pilot street 2. i was gonna put this 90/90 pilot on it but after riding it today, i decided it is perfect and i'm not touching it. i'll buy a third s22 pro with 50s batteries. for pasture work, until i'm strong enough for the v13's, the s22's are my favorite wheel at 75 pounds. i had quite a few circumstances today where i was glad it was only 75 pounds and not at all a top heavy wheel. the s22 is a great all around wheel. 

 

 

Edited January 27 by novazeus

[novazeus]

i just rode it again using only the most excellent headlights on the s22 pro this time, still think my diy suspension is better on my original s22, but the 90/90 tire does have some advantages.

i wanted to see if i could see my mowed and rolled paths at night, nope! haha, lucky i know this place very well. if i found my path, i could see where i had been earlier on my wheels. euc's make great ruts. don't run over ur toe with a v13. 

so i need to invest in a good rechargeable handheld light

haha, i'm at the top of my hill after riding for awhile, so i go to check the app to see how much juice i'm burning, and i forgot to turn on the app when i started. so now, in pitch black darkness, king song is insisting on updating the app, so i just waited until i got home. nothing update. no changes to the wheel.

[techyiam]

34 minutes ago, novazeus said:

but the 90/90 tire does have some advantages.

If you don't mind my asking, are the Michelin tires have much stiffer sidewalks and tread (tire carcass) than the stock S22 tire / V13 stock tire?

When you were mounting the tires on a rim, did you feel that the Michelin City Grip tire was stiffer than the Pilot Street 2?

[novazeus]

of these, the 90 is the stiffest followed by the 80 i just took off my first v13 after 1800 miles, still very usable, but i want to try to fit this 90/80 r16 euc girl said she got to fit by shaving the sidewalls. idk, i have a brand new 80 to go back on, if i don't just re-use this old one that's already broken in. tubeless. 

as far as installation goes, that was easy. getting the stock knobby off the s22 pro was difficult. idk, i start this tire crap and i'm like a wrestler until it's over and then i forget about it. removing this slimed innertubed michelin today wasn't too bad. valves coming tmrw. 

the stock knobby is still on two of the v13's and point to point are fine, just a bitch to turn. i'm thinking this 90 will help.

btw, i've found with these wider tires on our very unique one wheel transportation, at higher tire pressures above what is needed for ur load, can give u this effect, esp in wind.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by novazeus

[GothamMike]

I always loved power pads, the fine control they give you is like adding more batteries. It's a personal preference.

I'm wearing out my boots on the pads when I sit down on the Sur_ron seat I'm using, on the inside right above the ankle. A necessary evil. I love sitting nowadays.