Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[Uras]

5 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Additionally, by using leverage ratios, further savings can be had since shorter stroke coil-overs can be used.

dual shock setups are a cheaper design and implementation

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

But if you want to feel connected to the ground and not floating as a hoowercraft then this is not really a positive in this regard? 

I have ridden my S22 with stock sliders, and with Hou Ningning roller sliders.

And I had ridden a few non-suspension wheels.

My current S22 suspension setup is one that is super cushy.

For my use case, my S22 with its current suspension setup would be my choice, hands down. Unlike in a car, or on a motorcycle, floaty feeling doesn't come to mind while riding my cushy S22 around town. I just don't notice bumps much, and I can focus on traffic, and with better control. Wheel control is great. Road imperfections basically becomes noise in the background. It's the closest thing to riding on a smooth road everywhere I go. I wouldn't knock it until you have tried it.

On a race track, the floaty bit may hamper lap time, I suppose. Wouldn't know. Never tried.

Have you ridden in a car with worn struts at speeds? It is very dangerous. This is nothing like it.

Actually, riding a motorcycle, or driving a car without suspension is also very dangerous. But not necessarily so on an euc.

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

When different people mention that the box suspension shock isn't as high quality what do the mean? 

Generally, for cars, motorcycles, mtb's, etc, stock shocks are typically low quality units costing much below high quality premium shocks.]

So why would anyone pay such a premium price to replace the stock shock?

Simply because of the improvement in damping characteristics, adjustability, control and stability mainly. Due to higher quality in materials, durability and longevity as well.  After proper setup and tuning of the suspension, a rider would readily notice the difference. Premium shocks and suspension forks, have very tight tolerance machined parts. In addition, the damping valving would be more advanced and metering would be more precise.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Uras said:

dual shock setups are a cheaper design and implementation

Yup, for cheap scooters and bikes. Those shocks cost next to nothing. Then just add a single pivot swing arm.

Edited December 7, 2023 by techyiam

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I just don't understand how you can have a "plush" suspension as well as take big jumps with it. No other suspension offers this with any degree of small bump compliance if its set up for jumps. Professional motocross riders use several different shock setups depending on the course and swap them out before the race. I have yet to see a one size fits all setup. I have to admit though i have never ridden a Sherman s so i could be mistaken but you would think the sport that is all about the bumps would have it first.here really isn't anything that can go wrong with them aside from stiction and very few people have had that issue which is easily preventable using dry lube.

At the same time I don't understand lightweight riders who want 900lb+ coil on an S22 for example worrying that it would bottom out from jumping otherwise.

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

But if you want to feel connected to the ground and not floating as a hoowercraft then this is not really a positive in this regard?

You have it the other way around, that's exactly what good responsive suspension does, more contact with the ground.

[Forwardnbak]

I heard today inmotion should have some stock next week of the upgraded slider. 

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

I heard today inmotion should have some stock next week of the upgraded slider. 

Woo Hoo !!

[Forwardnbak]

we shall see  

[The Brahan Seer]

On 12/6/2023 at 3:36 AM, Punxatawneyjoe said:

riding backwards has no real use anyway

For me I disagree, riding backwards utilises different muscle groups in the back and core and strengthening them helps with riding forwards too.

It helps me balance out muscle throughout the body rather than on the front only.  But for normal run of the mill riding it won't matter. 

For racing, off road or more extreme I think it helps . But everyone is different and I have historical back injury to maintain.

[Ro.man]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:57 AM, Unventor said:

When different people mention that the box suspension shock isn't as high quality what do the mean? 

Product designers try to minimize costs to fit into their target price and still have a healthy margin. That means they use cheap parts where it is not critical, reasoning that if it will not brake right away, it is acceptable.

Basically all coilover shocks are spring + damper. The spring is the spring, a piece of metal, usually steel. You can play with lbs ratings and progressive springs but that changes only the spring part, not affecting the damper. The damper is much more complicated device that has many parts including shims and valves. And the damper is what can make suspension "plush". Even if the technology that goes to most dampers is about the same, they all have a different feel. Most riders won't notice a big difference between $300 and $900 shock, but the difference between $50 and $300 is very noticeable. I've ridden numerous mountain bikes with different suspension setups and compared them to my old good Kona with Fox Vanilla shock. Only more premium modern shocks ($200+ retail) have a similar small bump compliance, the cheap shocks (at least all that I've tried) suck compared to Vanilla. 

Returning to V14, if the linkage works fine and the stanchions slide smoothly, there is no reason why the suspension cannot be plush. You just need to install a right shock.

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

Returning to V14, if the linkage works fine and the stanchions slide smoothly, there is no reason why the suspension cannot be plush. You just need to install a right shock.

Not if the rider also wants to do big jumps and big drops without bottoming out.

With 85 mm suspension travel, something has to give, when compared to a 130 mm suspension wheel.

This is Inmotion's first linkage suspension wheel. And it is Inmotion's linkage suspension wheel with a progressive coil spring.

I am too curious as to what Inmotion can do with a rising rate linkage, progressively wound spring, 85 mm of suspension travel, and motorcycle grade sliders.

If they can compete with the 130 mm S22 Pro in suspension action and ride quality, that would be impressive.

In any case, the V14 reviews should be coming out soon since the revised sliders are ready. I hope Inmotion is successful.

[UniVehje]

I find it funny that suspension travel raises so much discussion. Are there actually so many bug jumpers out there? Nothing against jumping but there aren't that many places where it's possible. I think the vast majority of riders do not need large travel on their suspension. I would have happily taken even a V11 suspension instead my original S22 suspension. Only after a lot of work and money does my S22 feel good. And I've never benefitted from the large travel I have. 

I really hope the industry moves quickly to specialised categories like bikes and motorcycles have. Right now the types of wheels that would benefit from balanced specs, like adventure category would, cannot be made because the manufacturers have to chase bigger numbers. A good general purpose suspension cannot be measured in numbers only. But if travel is the only number that can be put on spec sheets, that's what people are comparing then. Even if it's a meaningless number unless you plan to jump a lot. There should be a dedicated model for jumpers (large travel in suspension, light weight etc.) and for the rest of us the focus should be on other features. 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

I find it funny that suspension travel raises so much discussion.

Yep, me too. As someone who thought Begode's second or 3rd attempt at suspension was 'pretty much fine' for the sort of (road) riding I do, but also accept that is largely because I haven't tried anything better, it's all a bit lost on me, but I imagine I will be quite grateful to have such a thoroughly discussed archive of information to wade through if I ever need to replace mine or when it's new wheel time !

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

I find it funny that suspension travel raises so much discussion. Are there actually so many bug jumpers out there?

You're absolutely right. The 95mm I have is fine for my road/trail riding. In short, if you're not regularly bottoming out when at the correct sag then you have enough travel.

All suspension discussion is good though because even simple things like changing out the stock shitty Begode shocks and dry lubing the stanchions can make a world of difference.

I would always want the least amount of travel I can get away with because the lower the pedal height the better (for me, for my riding) as I don't ever pedal clip anything. Which is also why I would like to get hold of some lower pedal brackets at some point. The lower the pedal the easier the wheel is to manoeuvre/accelerate/brake IMO.

[okvp]

2 hours ago, UniVehje said:

I find it funny that suspension travel raises so much discussion. Are there actually so many bug jumpers out there? Nothing against jumping but there aren't that many places where it's possible. I think the vast majority of riders do not need large travel on their suspension. I would have happily taken even a V11 suspension instead my original S22 suspension. Only after a lot of work and money does my S22 feel good. And I've never benefitted from the large travel I have. 

I really hope the industry moves quickly to specialised categories like bikes and motorcycles have. Right now the types of wheels that would benefit from balanced specs, like adventure category would, cannot be made because the manufacturers have to chase bigger numbers. A good general purpose suspension cannot be measured in numbers only. But if travel is the only number that can be put on spec sheets, that's what people are comparing then. Even if it's a meaningless number unless you plan to jump a lot. There should be a dedicated model for jumpers (large travel in suspension, light weight etc.) and for the rest of us the focus should be on other features. 

Longer suspension travel is not just for the jumpers.

With motorcycles, the suspension travel varies quite much. Street bikes, approx. 120mm, 
Gravel bikes and heavy enduros 250mm, racing enduros and motocross more than 300mm.
So it depends lot on the purpose of use.  On a more difficult trail the bike stays in control much more easily with a good longer travel suspension.  

Wasn't the V14 marketed as a trail wheel and it has a 50% shorter suspension travel than competitors... Good thing is that the Chinese damper can be changed to to quality unit and on asphalt and smoother surfaces, travel doesn't matter that much. Also there are aftermarkets kits (not cheap) probably coming at least for Extreme and Master there is a 150mm suspension kit under development.

Edited December 8, 2023 by okvp

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, okvp said:

Longer suspension travel is not just for the jumpers.

I agree. I could use 130 mm of suspension travel for commuting, since I like to use a soft spring with minimum shock absorber damping, for both compression and rebound. But note that the effective suspension travel is less than 130 mm to begin with.

If the stiction of the sliders, and linkages pin joints are absolutely free to slide or rotate, longer suspension travel can be utilized even for street riding.

With high stiction, it doesn't matter, since the suspension travel would not be used under street riding conditions, at least for me with the stock sliders.

Having said that, not everyone like cushy depending on usage, and personal preferences.

I think it is really difficult to predict how riders will respond to the V14 suspension travel and suspension design in general.

This is something I am patiently waiting to find out over the next months.

Edited December 8, 2023 by techyiam

[Uras]

22 hours ago, Ro.man said:

Returning to V14, if the linkage works fine and the stanchions slide smoothly, there is no reason why the suspension cannot be plush. You just need to install a right shock.

Not disagreeing with you at all. Once people start getting into jumps or drops that's where compromise starts ramping up. I had my mtb suspension set up perfect for the trail riding I was doing (steep blues and blacks). Once I started getting into some jumps, all that went out the window. Higher tire and suspension pressures setup for a couple of gap jumps is a harsh ride for the bulk of my riding.

I remember some "paul the punter" youtube videos where he rode with blake samson in whistler - blake had his suspension at max pressure. Paul later rode one of Sam Pilgrim's bikes - same thing; rock hard suspension and tires.

I know with mtb, there are lots of people out on the trails that are doing jumps and drops; most of the other people I see on the trail have more skills than me. I can only assume that they run reasonably high pressures in both tires and suspension, although bending rims is still fairly common.

Those dudes might have great bikes, but they're riding them a lot of the time with suspension that doesn't begin to work until they hit the big jumps or drops. Hah, found one of the videos:

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Uras

[ORDO NOVUS]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:15 PM, okvp said:

Longer suspension travel is not just for the jumpers.

With motorcycles, the suspension travel varies quite much. Street bikes, approx. 120mm, 
Gravel bikes and heavy enduros 250mm, racing enduros and motocross more than 300mm.
So it depends lot on the purpose of use.  On a more difficult trail the bike stays in control much more easily with a good longer travel suspension.  

Wasn't the V14 marketed as a trail wheel and it has a 50% shorter suspension travel than competitors... Good thing is that the Chinese damper can be changed to to quality unit and on asphalt and smoother surfaces, travel doesn't matter that much. Also there are aftermarkets kits (not cheap) probably coming at least for Extreme and Master there is a 150mm suspension kit under development.

absolutely right, 130mm is widely adjustable, 85mm is not.

[techyiam]

Zen Lee didn't care much for the Inmotion V14, especially in the comment section. Ouch!

 

[jimjam.nyc]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

Zen Lee didn't care much for the Inmotion V14, especially in the comment section. Ouch!

 

Zen was never really much of an inmotion fan so not a surprise here .

His points are valid though in this impression video. Especially when he compares price to other wheels in its category, etc.

I disregard the copy of extreme comments. Kind of tired of hearing about how one wheel is a copy of another and blah blah. It's not something that's valid in the impressions of how a wheel rides or performs. 

So many wheels take concepts from others it's not even a point worth mentioning anymore. 

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Zen was never really much of an inmotion fan so not a surprise here .

His points are valid though in this impression video. Especially when he compares price to other wheels in its category, etc.

I disregard the copy of extreme comments. Kind of tired of hearing about how one wheel is a copy of another and blah blah. It's not something that's valid in the impressions of how a wheel rides or performs. 

So many wheels take concepts from others it's not even a point worth mentioning anymore. 

Zen Lee is a racer type. And this type of riders typically choose Begode wheels.

So he does have a Begode (Extreme Bull) bias.

I thought he didn't give the V14 a fair shake. But then, I have not ridden an Inmotion V14.

I understand his main point though. He was not impressed with the V14 because he felt the v14 didn't standout from existing wheels, and the V14 costs more.

Me thinks, Zen Lee dismissed non-performance related aspects of the V14, and only focused essentially all on performance. This is not to say what his initial impression is accurate. I need to try one myself, and evaluate myself.

 

Well, I would agree that building a wheel to compete in Patton class isn't necessarily copying. But I am in the camp that Inmotion did take a short cut on the basic design and also borrow elements from different wheels. However, Inmotion did improved certain areas, like motorcycle grade sliders and the use of progressive coil spring. Also Inmotion still has their high water resistance and safety features hallmark.

For example, you may think the S22 water resistance is quite good since it has the double wheel bearing seals, has gasket for the top controller housing. Although, the water resistance performance is good, it isn't as good as the Inmotion V12 IMO, based on my experience so far. Inmotion usually has a certain baseline that is quite good, and they don't go below that. On the other hand, for Begode, and Extreme Bull wheels, I don't have that same trust yet. Maybe the Extreme is there, I can't be sure without owning one.

Edited December 10, 2023 by techyiam

[bpong]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:17 AM, techyiam said:

I have ridden my S22 with stock sliders, and with Hou Ningning roller sliders.

...etc,...

i have considered in the past and still do now,  to pick up a recent S22 pro,  and perform the revisions to the sliders (if needed).  its certainly cheaper than the current eucs and it will suffice as a commuter wheel.  but firmware wise, its performance will not be on par with the latest euc offerings.  for commuting purposes that doesnt matter - its performance will still be more than enuf to keep up with downtown city traffic.  it would still be nice to have a patton, V14, or lynx or whatever, for those riding days when one feels abit obnoxious...i'll leave this statement as is to stay focused on V14 commentary...

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, bpong said:

i have considered in the past and still do now,  to pick up a recent S22 pro,  and perform the revisions to the sliders (if needed).  its certainly cheaper than the current eucs and it will suffice as a commuter wheel.

Is the S22 Pro much cheaper than the Patton?  

Isn't it like ?

$3800 (S22 Pro)    versus     $4300 (Patton)

 

I think the extra $500 is worth spending on the Patton. On hindsight, that's my conclusion.

Highly likely you will be a happy camper.

Owners have already spoken. Issues have already been resolved. And the consensus is that it is a good wheel, and a fun wheel at that.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by techyiam

[InfiniteWheelie]

22 hours ago, techyiam said:

However, Inmotion did improved certain areas, like motorcycle grade sliders

That’s a laughable statement since no motorcycle on earth uses any kind of “slider”. By the way, didn’t they have to delay the wheel because the sliders had problems? It sounds like marketing bullshit to me.

[novazeus]

s22 pro plus with 50s batteries is what i’m waiting on. evidently it’s in development now.

the adventure looks fun but my never healed properly broken ankle,  says no.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

That’s a laughable statement since no motorcycle on earth uses any kind of “slider”. By the way, didn’t they have to delay the wheel because the sliders had problems? It sounds like marketing bullshit to me.

Inmotion made a claim that their V14 slides are motorcycle grade.

We have to wait and see as to how well the V14 sliders actually work.

My hunch is that it will most likely work better than the Begode's sliders.