Rawnei Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, Cerbera said: Ok, well that seems encouraging. It's almost like they bleed off to something around storage voltage (108v) then, presuming optimum storage voltage is 3.4v per cell ? Which leaves the question 'Is there less risk of fire when off and stationary because the batteries do not stay at their maximum charge' as Begode seem to suggest or is the fire risk they want to be mitigating down to something else about the design of previous iterations ? That's quite a leap of reasoning there, I imagine Begode would market it as such if they had this intention and not be completely clueless about it when asked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Rawnei said: That's quite a leap of reasoning there, I imagine Begode would market it as such if they had this intention and not be completely clueless about it when asked. Yes I have to do leaps of reasoning given the lack of clarity in any of Begode's responses to this issue, and have to infer SOME sort of reason to their thinking otherwise it's just total bafflement all round ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheel Guy Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Ok, well that seems encouraging. It's almost like they bleed off to something around storage voltage (108v) then, presuming optimum storage voltage is 3.4v per cell ? Which leaves the question 'Is there less risk of fire when off and stationary because the batteries do not stay at their maximum charge' as Begode seem to suggest or is the fire risk they want to be mitigating down to something else about the design of previous iterations ? 47 minutes ago, Rawnei said: That's quite a leap of reasoning there, I imagine Begode would market it as such if they had this intention and not be completely clueless about it when asked. My understanding was that the older boards risked allowing the wheel to overcharge batteries (>134.4v) and this new board prevents that. But hard to say for sure. Kebyes reply to Rawnies post was regarding balancing. I don't think they've intended this much discharge from full. It could be seen as a safety feature (to promote safer long term storage, although long term storage is not why we buy our wheels :P) or a bug. My guess is that 118.2v where I tested my wheel at, the discharging has basically stopped. That would indicate that somewhere between 118.2-130-ish volts, the discharging stops. We just haven't found the threshold yet. Edited March 12, 2023 by loofv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tryptych Posted March 15, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) Just a quick note: I have a batch #1 Master using the v4 charge board and I am observing a similar voltage drop after charging to full and leaving the wheel to sit. I have seen it drop to 91% (around 129v) according to EUC World and verified via multimeter. Also, my wheel is not charging to full (134.4v). I note that this charge board has red LED's underneath which are always on (it can only been seen in a dark room). I suspect they go off when the drain stops but need to verify this theory. My first board did not have this red glow as far as I know. Not sure if anyone else has noticed: I am currently running more thorough tests and will post more details soon. Edited March 15, 2023 by Tryptych 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 At this moment don't there is a solution? My master drop his battery, and not want charge at the full voltage. in the app at full charge before was a 133.V and with multimeter was at 133.8V. Last charge, was with app (euc w.) At 132.7 and with multimeter at 134V. And after 3days without use it, now is at 130.6V. I don't understand. My master is v3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted April 15, 2023 Author Share Posted April 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Gabriz81 said: At this moment don't there is a solution? My master drop his battery, and not want charge at the full voltage. in the app at full charge before was a 133.V and with multimeter was at 133.8V. Last charge, was with app (euc w.) At 132.7 and with multimeter at 134V. And after 3days without use it, now is at 130.6V. I don't understand. My master is v3 Hi, I think not charging to full is a separate issue, could be some some miss-calibration on charge board or charger or possibly both, then you will have the ghost drain on top of that also so 2 different things happening. I know that @Marty Backe saw same issue with not charging to full and Begode was promising to send new wheels/boards that had this problem fixed (?), not sure how that went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 11 hours ago, Rawnei said: Hi, I think not charging to full is a separate issue, could be some some miss-calibration on charge board or charger or possibly both, then you will have the ghost drain on top of that also so 2 different things happening. I know that @Marty Backe saw same issue with not charging to full and Begode was promising to send new wheels/boards that had this problem fixed (?), not sure how that went. To me the saller "ask" to begode ingeneer, that says to ship me a new charge board. A my friend who have the same problem changed 2 charge boards but no solved the problem. I saw that in the mine there are left batteries that not charge at 67.x V, but at 66.6V, could be a balance problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Does anyone have a FLIR camera? Something must be getting hot on the board. If Begode says they don't know, maybe they screwed up and try to cover up. Either way it's a small board and maybe there's a simple fix. Find the heat source and you'll find your culprit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheel Guy Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Update: I broke my thumb (not EUC-related) and haven't been able to ride for 5 weeks, which means my wheel has been sitting. I charged it fully before the accident. When I started it after the 5 weeks it had drained to 129.4v (93% battery) which is actually not too bad. Long term storage doesn't seem to be a problem which is nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8nice Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 hello, I have batch 3 from July 2023 (metal battery), and I have the same problem. The battery drains a lot after a full charge (-2.5v after 3 days of storage. Has anyone found a solution? No new charging card on master4 or T4 pro models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 3 hours ago, v8nice said: Has anyone found a solution? Not that I have heard. Mine is the same. I guess it's not so serious a problem that anyone has felt a need to really try and find the answer themselves in the absence of any reasonable explanation by Begode. It does only take 10 mins to put the missing charge back - doesn't seem too much of a pain to just do that whilst suiting up... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8nice Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 5:44 AM, Cerbera said: Not that I have heard. Mine is the same. I guess it's not so serious a problem that anyone has felt a need to really try and find the answer themselves in the absence of any reasonable explanation by Begode. It does only take 10 mins to put the missing charge back - doesn't seem too much of a pain to just do that whilst suiting up... I think is 30/40 min for 4 or 5 days off,not perfect but ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 On 12/12/2023 at 4:44 AM, Cerbera said: It does only take 10 mins to put the missing charge back - doesn't seem too much of a pain to just do that whilst suiting up... Just dragging this back up - does the wheel accept a charge even though it's only a volt or two down? I've not tried it myself so thought I'd ask because a lot of the time the threshold needs to be lower before the charger will trip on (red light). Adding my own data, I only used my wheel a few times last year and only ever charged it overnight so it was finished charging some time in the early hours, can't say when. It has shown between 133.2 and 133.5v on the occasions I fired it up about 11am later the same morning. The problem though is that I have never been around to see what it actually maxed at so its not great data unfortunately. Also, did anyone get around to running a FLIR on the charge board? It seems like a fair bit of energy loss for something not to be getting pretty hot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 4 hours ago, Planemo said: Just dragging this back up - does the wheel accept a charge even though it's only a volt or two down? Mine does, but I haven't discovered the exact threshold yet. So if I charge mine to green light + a couple of hours the night before a ride by the time I get up again the next day it's probably dropped a volt or so, which it seems is just enough to send that light red again when I top it up just before I leave. Still, doesn't go higher than 133.8v for me though, which I would expect from a battery pack over a year old... I am more worried about Roger's latest 'event', in which a charge board (which I assume was a v4) actually caught fire. Most worryingly he said this had happened to 'a few people' !!! He hasn't responded yet to my asking for more information about what it was doing at the time, and if it was one of the ones he modded himself. I hope the latter, but worry it's not ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Mine does, but I haven't discovered the exact threshold yet. Interesting, thats good in a way. At least it allows topping off. I'll try that next time. I wasn't aware of Rogers latest vid. Bit worrying as you say. I do wonder if there was some high-amp charging going on at the time and yes we could really do with knowing if it was a modded board or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Planemo said: I do wonder if there was some high-amp charging going on Yeah, his gang are a bit famous for the amount of amps they are prepared to whop up their wheels on a regular basis ! AND it is quite hot over there anyway ! Makes me feel a bit better that I have time on my side, rubbish UK temperatures and a lowly 5 amps going on with mine ! There have been thousands of Masters (and newer machines that use that board) sold. If the problem was endemic we'd be seeing a lot more of it by now... Edited January 27 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I've cranked mine to 11.5A albeit only for a short period for testing. I will be sending it for full charges at 11.5 soon though. I think the board cuts around 12A and the fuses are rated to 15A IIRC. I can't remember if Rogers modded board bypass' the onboard fuses too...if it does then maybe theres the answer. It would help an awful lot if we find out whether this fried one was modded or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Agreed. But in the meantime, it's not raining, and mine notably ISN"T on fire, so time to don my comedy riding pantaloons, get a flask of Earl Grey on the go, and gear up for this afternoon's 20 miler... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 15 hours ago, Cerbera said: time to don my comedy riding pantaloons I heard that you wore those things that I remember seeing in old American cowboy films - the undergarments with the trap door in the back Following @Tryptych's post, I'm also going to look see if I have any led illuminations on my charge board - that might explain some vampire drain but still, to knock 2 or 3 volts off a 134v 3600Wh pack is a lot of juice in anyones book. Surely there must be something else getting warm. Plus, I remember my old Z10 having flashing LEDs on each pack when switched off and although we all know they suffered from drain too I'm sure is wasn't as rapid as these Begode wheels. As you say it's not a big issue in general but I'm just a nosey git. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) On 3/9/2023 at 10:33 AM, digithom said: my old ks18xl, was dropping 10% of battery on the first 1 day, and then it stays at his 90%, even if the charger is plugged and yes, it is normal, every ks18 acts in this way Sorry to be the contradictor, but 10% is a lot, and looks more like several dead cells to me. I have had 3x 18XL, (a total of 5x KS wheels), and none of them had any noticeable drop in voltage ( I monitor every charge). I have also followed those models forums closely for a long time, and have never heard of such a drop being normal. The Sherman OG had a noticeable drop (for most people) but that was barely 0,5V.. This is off topic sorry, but I could not let this statement go unchallenged as it is (IMO) dangerous to consider it normal for a 18XL to drop 10% battery after charge. (no offense) (That was it, no need to discuss it further as far as I'm concerned) Edited February 5 by null 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 1/28/2024 at 6:15 AM, Planemo said: I'm also going to look see if I have any led illuminations on my charge board Little update to this - I checked in the pitch black and I couldnt see any kind of light around the charge board. But the wheel is only about 70% charged so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 I think it was established that this is the new norm from Begode, apparently some sort overvoltage/full charge protection, it's on all their wheels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Oh right, I hadnt heard that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digithom Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 2/5/2024 at 1:28 PM, null said: Sorry to be the contradictor, but 10% is a lot, and looks more like several dead cells to me. I have had 3x 18XL, (a total of 5x KS wheels), and none of them had any noticeable drop in voltage ( I monitor every charge). I have also followed those models forums closely for a long time, and have never heard of such a drop being normal. The Sherman OG had a noticeable drop (for most people) but that was barely 0,5V.. This is off topic sorry, but I could not let this statement go unchallenged as it is (IMO) dangerous to consider it normal for a 18XL to drop 10% battery after charge. (no offense) (That was it, no need to discuss it further as far as I'm concerned) I can confirm what I wrote, and not only mine ks18xl, the same was happening to ks18xl of my friend, this is the reason why I classified it as normal, mybe it is no exactly 10% but significantly battery discharge after full charge and then stays steady at this point. It is not a dead cell issue, wheel is able to run his nominal range, so batteries are fine. It looks like if it is a voluntary discharge, or some circuit inside stays on, wasting battery for a period, after full charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 45 minutes ago, digithom said: I can confirm what I wrote, and not only mine ks18xl, the same was happening to ks18xl of my friend, this is the reason why I classified it as normal, mybe it is no exactly 10% but significantly battery discharge after full charge and then stays steady at this point. It is not a dead cell issue, wheel is able to run his nominal range, so batteries are fine. It looks like if it is a voluntary discharge, or some circuit inside stays on, wasting battery for a period, after full charge. Then you might be referring to the strange behavior KS firmwares for half recent wheels started doing around 2020 that would beep at the end of charge, then drain the battery if you did not turn it on and off manually. It does only apply for the 2200W motor 18XL, not the 2000W motor 18XL. It also is supposed to be fixed, though with mixed results. While this is indeed a thing for certain KS EUC / FW combinations it does not reflect normal behavior for other EUCs or batteries, and can not be used to argue that any voltage drop is just normal, for example with a 2023 Begode charge board.. edit: can we just leave this here? Your statement had to be challenged because it was literally dangerous (like burn your house down) for 18XL owners that where not affected by that HW / FW combination. You have stated yours, I have stated mine, we could leave this conversation to go back to the Begode charge board. If you have the need to "have the last word" do whatever you like, I will not respond anymore. Edited February 7 by null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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