Pushing 60 and against my families wishes - I just ordered my first EUC!

[Funky]

@Grandpa_Jay Did you test those speed alarms at first/second/third level you set? Do they even work?

In my case i found out that my wheel only makes alarm noise, when i'm passing third speed alarm. First/Second alarm didn't make any noise what so over. (Kingsong app.)

Open app and place phone somewhere you can see it's speed. Try lifting the wheel by pedals so it free spins.. Slowly lean it forwards or backwards to start going faster/slower. Check app and it's speed alarms.. Do they match and make alarm when passing First/Second/Third speed set alarms.

Video how to: (If you can't lift it - try placing it in stand (MAKE SURE tire isn't rubbing) and turn it on - be ready to hold/grab it in case it jumps out of stand..) < Can be dangerous doing with stand..

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Funky

[Tawpie]

36 minutes ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

Well, I just went to get screen shots ... and now the 12mph speed limit has been lifted!

Does the trick every time... try to show someone else what's not right, and tahdah! All better.

Glad things seem normaler, what a great way to start a new year!

[Grandpa_Jay]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Does the trick every time... try to show someone else what's not right, and tahdah! All better.

Glad things seem normaler, what a great way to start a new year!

Would have been even nicer if my helmet had arrived - but no tracking now says Tuesday as it sits in a building near where I took the ladies to lunch yesterday.  Oh well. I think I have all the armor pieces except for the helmet.  I do think I will probably go back to my boots - the ones I wear every day for every thing.  I do like the high top tennis shoes - they are great - but they do not protect my shins and feet the way leather boots do!  We shall see... I still need to be able to actually ride before it really matters! 

Interesting FYI - I am still more balanced on the wheel going backwards than forwards WHEN inside the house. (I have not tried much backwards outside in a while).

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!  2023 is going to be an awesome year!

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

You make me smile.  I am still waiving my arms about and only going a few feet!  I am working on getting a BT setup - but I need to go more than a few feet!  When I ALMOST rode it and got the beeps - it is possible I was at 12mph for a very brief second.  My Segway S-Max tilts at 12.4mph but it all happened so fast!  I can't be sure - at least not until I have been able to feel it a few times.  

I think I am almost ready to take off!  I just need a little more dry, warmer weather...  

I also thought i was going 20km/h, because my alarms where set at 20/25/30 at beginning. For my surprise when i found out that first/second alarm didn't make alarm sound - instead of going 20km/h, i was already going ~33km/h... Here i thought it will make alarm at 20km/h, but no - it made only at 30km/h, which was mine 3rd alarm..  

Edited January 1, 2023 by Funky

[Grandpa_Jay]

24 minutes ago, Funky said:

I also thought i was going 20km/h, because my alarms where set at 20/25/30 at beginning. For my surprise when i found out that first/second alarm didn't make alarm sound - instead of going 20km/h, i was already going ~33km/h... Here i thought it will make alarm at 20km/h, but no - it made only at 30km/h, which was mine 3rd alarm..  

I will definitely be paying attention to this once I am rolling! Not good.  Did using EUC World fix the issue?

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

I will definitely be paying attention to this once I am rolling! Not good.  Did using EUC World fix the issue?

I use both now. EUCW i have set up as safety margin and quiet first level beeps. And original kingsong alarm is set by default - which i use most extreme alarm very loud beeps+voice commands. Which you can miss. And if i don't use EUCW i still got that alarm.. 

I sometimes don't use EUCW for slower rider, because i'm not going anywhere over 25km/h those times.. So i normally don't even turn app on then. (I can tell my riding speed by wind noise, or how fast object are going by.)

[rcgldr]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

EUCW i have set up as safety margin

At least in the case of V8F, EUC World is useless for peak current warning during acceleration: there's up to 1/2 second delay due to the message cycle pattern, and if it is 1/2 second, then the current will be well over the peak current setting by the time there is an alarm. I use the setting, but as a notification that the set peak current was exceeded in the last 1/2 second, letting me know where and when it happened, rather than guessing by looking at post ride stats.

Edited January 2, 2023 by rcgldr

[Funky]

12 hours ago, rcgldr said:

At least in the case of V8F, EUC World is useless for peak current warning during acceleration: there's up to 1/2 second delay due to the message cycle pattern, and if it is 1/2 second, then the current will be well over the peak current setting by the time there is an alarm. I use the setting, but as a notification that the set peak current was exceeded in the last 1/2 second, letting me know where and when it happened, rather than guessing by looking at post ride stats.

I don't even know what current is good/bad for my 18xl.  I ride till i hear some kind alarm. Then i slow down. (By current you mean the 30A "limit" that fuses have, or..?) Time to time i hit 33-36A for 1-2 seconds.

[rcgldr]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

I don't even know what current is good/bad for my 18xl.

Fuse on V8F|V8S is 30 amps, which is actually 33 amps, since blade fuses are spec'ed to run 100+ hours at 110% rated current.

In the case of my V8F, the reported average current is high. For example I've done a 10 minute ride starting at about 77 volts with reported average current about 4.5 amps = 45 amp minutes, but it only took about 12 minutes or so at 3 amps to recharge back to 77 volts, about 36 to 39 amp minute. Since reporter power = reported current * reported voltage, and reported voltage seems accurate, reported power is also higher than actual.

Even though the reported average and peak currents may be higher than actual, I limit my riding so that I only see reported peak current around 18 to 22 amps. Reported average current is 3 to 5 amps, depending on speed and where I ride, and the initial voltage. I have EUC World set to sound an alarm at 25 amps, but there's up to 1/2 second delay, so it's more of a post event notification than a warning. It would let me know when and where I reached the peak rather than guessing when looking at post ride stats. I haven't triggered it yet. I did test at lower peak current to confirm it works.

I don't understand the PWM values being displayed in Wrong Way's video review of the V8S. EUC World doesn't display PWM with my V8F, so I can't compare this.

Wrong Way did an acceleration test on a V8S (Samsung 50E cells), and the display for peak current was 32.46 amps and the voltage sag was about .335 volts per cell, but in a battery test for 50E at 15 amps per cell, voltage sag is about 0.448 volts per cell. However, the test is a continuous discharge at a fixed 15 amps per cell, versus a short burst at 16.23 amps per cell. During acceleration test, no load voltage was 81.9 volts. At peak power: PWM 71%, 2441 watts (on a 1000 watt nominal motor), 32.46 amps, 75.2 volts , and a bit later in acceleration test: PWM 88%, power 2021 watts, 26.48 amps, 76.34 volts. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CODg5a7BI&t=731s

Earlier in the video Wrong Way does a top speed test (until he gets beeps), and you can see current, voltage, and PWM vary. The current increases more than linearly with speed. In this segment:  PWM 90%, 1204 watts, 15.28 amps, 78.77 volts (15.28 * 78.77 ~= 1204 watts).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CODg5a7BI&t=318s

Test for Samsung 50E cells:

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh (Cyan) UK.html

As noted in the pull test thread, some EUCs report motor current which is somehow higher than battery current.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by rcgldr

[Funky]

2 hours ago, rcgldr said:

Fuse on V8F|V8S is 30 amps, which is actually 33 amps, since blade fuses are spec'ed to run 100+ hours at 110% rated current.

In the case of my V8F, the reported average current is high. For example I've done a 10 minute ride starting at about 77 volts with reported average current about 4.5 amps = 45 amp minutes, but it only took about 12 minutes or so at 3 amps to recharge back to 77 volts, about 36 to 39 amp minute. Since reporter power = reported current * reported voltage, and reported voltage seems accurate, reported power is also higher than actual.

Even though the reported average and peak currents may be higher than actual, I limit my riding so that I only see reported peak current around 18 to 22 amps. Reported average current is 3 to 5 amps, depending on speed and where I ride, and the initial voltage. I have EUC World set to sound an alarm at 25 amps, but there's up to 1/2 second delay, so it's more of a post event notification than a warning. It would let me know when and where I reached the peak rather than guessing when looking at post ride stats. I haven't triggered it yet. I did test at lower peak current to confirm it works.

I don't understand the PWM values being displayed in Wrong Way's video review of the V8S. EUC World doesn't display PWM with my V8F, so I can't compare this.

Wrong Way did an acceleration test on a V8S (Samsung 50E cells), and the display for peak current was 32.46 amps and the voltage sag was about .335 volts per cell, but in a battery test for 50E at 15 amps per cell, voltage sag is about 0.448 volts per cell. However, the test is a continuous discharge at a fixed 15 amps per cell, versus a short burst at 16.23 amps per cell. During acceleration test, no load voltage was 81.9 volts. At peak power: PWM 71%, 2441 watts (on a 1000 watt nominal motor), 32.46 amps, 75.2 volts , and a bit later in acceleration test: PWM 88%, power 2021 watts, 26.48 amps, 76.34 volts. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CODg5a7BI&t=731s

Earlier in the video Wrong Way does a top speed test (until he gets beeps), and you can see current, voltage, and PWM vary. The current increases more than linearly with speed. In this segment:  PWM 90%, 1204 watts, 15.28 amps, 78.77 volts (15.28 * 78.77 ~= 1204 watts).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CODg5a7BI&t=318s

Test for Samsung 50E cells:

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh (Cyan) UK.html

As noted in the pull test thread, some EUCs report motor current which is somehow higher than battery current.

 

I actually have amp alarm off in EUCW.  (Should i turn it on?) I mostly go off by following safety margin and speed. Lowest it ever has been was ~13%, but i have set that alarm at 20% and most times after ride, when i look it's been lowest ~25%, because i don't ride crazy enough. Even when i'm going over 40km/h, i creep up to that speed slowly and only do it on straight, smooth paths. Most times i'm riding 30-35km/h in city, because you need to go left/right everywhere.

Doh i have been wondering about those 33-36A "spikes". But those happen only few seconds, once or twice in "Fun" rides.. Most times it's under 28A all ride.

Aside from my own attempted "overpower" alarms. (When i wanted to "know" how it sounds.. So i specially tried to get them.) I get only speed alarms. No other type of alarms from wheel, mostly because i don't start to go fast and don't accelerate very quickly.

Quick starts, aggressive movements usually gets the current/amps up there, safety margin down.. So i rarely do them. Doesn't help that i'm 2x normal human weight also. So i limit myself somewhat..

Edited January 2, 2023 by Funky

[rcgldr]

4 hours ago, Funky said:

I actually have amp alarm off in EUCW.  (Should i turn it on?)

As I posted above, due to message cycling delay, it's useless as a warning, but if you're wondering where you're getting some spike in current in one of your regular rides, you can set EUC World peak current alarm low enough to get a post event notification within 1/2 second of when it occurred. The V8F doesn't have a blue tooth speaker, but EUC World can trigger the V8F alarm beep on its speaker, and then you get a voice on the phone, current too high. It's just an audio alert, no effect on the V8F such as tilt-back.

When approaching max speed based on battery charge, the V8F will do a mild tilt-back about 1 mph below max speed, and at max speed, start beeping. If you lower the max speed setting below it's actual max, the titl-back and beep occur at about the same speed. I tested this at 8, 12, and 15 mph to see what it feels like. I then set it to max (35 kph, 21.7 mph, but Inmotion reported speed is 7% higher than GPS speed, so it's more like 20 mph max speed. I have EUC World set to call out speed, battery charge, time, distance every 15 seconds to use as an audio speedometer, but it's hard to hear at 15 mph (24 kph) or so, especially if there is a headwind. 

 

[Funky]

50 minutes ago, rcgldr said:

As I posted above, due to message cycling delay, it's useless as a warning, but if you're wondering where you're getting some spike in current in one of your regular rides, you can set EUC World peak current alarm low enough to get a post event notification within 1/2 second of when it occurred. The V8F doesn't have a blue tooth speaker, but EUC World can trigger the V8F alarm beep on its speaker, and then you get a voice on the phone, current too high. It's just an audio alert, no effect on the V8F such as tilt-back.

When approaching max speed based on battery charge, the V8F will do a mild tilt-back about 1 mph below max speed, and at max speed, start beeping. If you lower the max speed setting below it's actual max, the titl-back and beep occur at about the same speed. I tested this at 8, 12, and 15 mph to see what it feels like. I then set it to max (35 kph, 21.7 mph, but Inmotion reported speed is 7% higher than GPS speed, so it's more like 20 mph max speed. I have EUC World set to call out speed, battery charge, time, distance every 15 seconds to use as an audio speedometer, but it's hard to hear at 15 mph (24 kph) or so, especially if there is a headwind. 

 

Yeah - i can see on map, where i was and when those spikes happen. All times it was at higher speed ~27mph (~44km/h). While riding on smooth/straight road. Lowest safety margin also is there. (I bet it was little road bump or something.. Very small.) If i keep it under ~25mph (~42km/h) all is good. Doh i know i can go little bit faster if i wanna.. But i don't. 26mph (42km/h) is my "loud" alarm that you can't miss, voice+beeps. (Original kingsong alarm + EUCW alarm.)

Isn't it annoying wheel talks and says the same each 15 secs.   I for sure would hate that.. Especially while riding around people. (I hated that one time i did range test, riding home it says "You device is at low battery, please charge it." each ~2 mins. As for what speed i'm riding - i can tell just by wind noise, or how fast object are going by. It's funny - i speed up little bit and there is the first speed alarm  (The very quiet EUCW beeps. My hearing is very good - never have missed them, even while riding in wind. And having helmet.)

18xl also makes beeps+tiltback at low battery and speed limits you. Same here tilt-back set at max speed, so i never have to experience it. As i rarely go over 25mph (42km/h). And charge wheel at ~50%. One "Fun" ride uses about 25%. (Could ride more, but i would be riding same paths second time in a day.) Never have been battery limited. (Aside from that one "range" test i did, where i rode 100-6%.)

 

Kingsong have their built in alarm for over current also - i think. Funny enough i have only heard it once in my life. I think it happened when i was riding near ~50% battery. I was going over small curb.

First it said overpower and then it said something overcurrent, (Something with current..) or something like that. (Idk, i think i heard it right..)  And then it continued with "Please slow down, please step off." Somehow i triggered both alarms same time i think. Doh i was going ~15mph(~25km/h) speed that time. I was like WTF..  

Edited January 2, 2023 by Funky

[rcgldr]

17 hours ago, Funky said:

Isn't it annoying wheel talks and says the same each 15 secs.

V8F doesn't have blue-tooth speaker, so all the talk is coming from my cell phone clipped to my belt and usually covered by a light leather jacket, so it isn't very loud, and that's why wind noise is an issue for me.

 

[Grandpa_Jay]

Well - I took the wheel out for a quick attempt. It appears that leaving my house and going SouthWest I AM able to ride my wheel!! Once again, I rode from my house around the corner, down the way to the highway! No problem. However, when I turn around to ride NorthEast, back to the house - that would be a NO! Push, push, hop hop - finally up and rolling =NO bailed try again - push, push, hop, hop rolling rolling left turn ahead (BEEP, BEEP, BEEP) freaked me out CRASH!! At least the truck at the stop sign waited to see if I got up! I stressed my back a bit, but otherwise fine!  I went home to look at EUC World App to see how fast I was going when it beeped.  The app says my max speed was 11mph. I had the first alarm set at 10mph so I guess that worked!  After looking at the app and shaking it off I was going back out when the big brown UPS truck pulled up --> my helmet arrived!!!!

Unfortunately, I did not make it back out to ride. BUT, I finally have a helmet!! It is a keeper. I was able to shorten the straps enough - I get to keep this one! I did notice on my few very short runs that I do need googles! HOPEFULLY, I will get to ride tomorrow! It is NOT supposed to rain or snow. I have to take my wife to get her hair done.  I am going back to the park - or some other quiet, open space with my wheel and my helmet. Tomorrow is the day! My long over due maiden voyage.  

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

I finally have a helmet!

Gratz on the helmet! Looks nice, i like the fact it's modular. Gratz on your first distance ride also, you certainly seem to be getting the hang of it. Good luck tomorrow and thanks for the update.

[Cerbera]

Nice lid. Did you get any goggles to go with that ? Once you start riding for longer distances you'll be needing those to keep wind and insects out of your eyes ! In the short term sunglasses will do if you can find ones that work with the helmet. Essentially that means flexible plastic arms.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Cerbera

[Hellkitten]

Congratulations on the new lid and even more with your first distance ride! You’ll be doing further and further now. If you were having trouble mounting on the way back, it sounded like you were on a slope. You will find getting on while going downhill much easier than going up. You’ll get over that, but it is a bit trickier. Thanks for the update! 👍

[Jkay]

Bell has an excellent helmet, I am currently riding with a Bell dual sport type helmet but as it warms this spring I can see me in a duplicate of your new lid.  
We will be riding on the south end of the Natchez Trace this weekend.  Longest, skinniest national park in the country.  On a quiet EUC you can see wild turkeys, deer and other creatures.  Pretty cool for a geezer !

[Grandpa_Jay]

SO, It appears that I did injure my back a bit with that last fall  I am pretty sure it is only muscle, it will heal.  So, I didn't take the wheel to the park as planned yesterday - but I did take it out for a few minutes.  I had the first BEEP warning set at 10mph - I hit 10mph and it said...(Beep Beep Beep)+ (Beep Beep Beep)+(Beep Beep Beep) I bailed!!  I went in to look and the apps (both World and KS) had the Speed LIMIT set at 12 mph again!  WHY??  I checked it before going out and the Speed Limit was 19.9mph and Beeps set at 10, 15, 17 and tilt back at 20!  After the endless beeping incident, it had changed to Speed Limit 12mph  Both apps were checked and set the same before riding - both went back to 12mph speed limit.  

After checking - I went back out and rolled a few hundred feet this way and a few hundred feet back = Both aps reverted back to the 19.9mph limit!!  There is no place for me to change this speed limit - the wheel must be doing so on its own.  I would like to know how fast I am going, but the beeps freak me out!  Two or three times I rode it far enough to get it to the 10mph beep - each time that I stayed on it = it continued beeping until I either slowed down, or bailed.  I think it said my fastest speed was 11.4mph.  

I am going back out for a few minutes today, but I am not sure what is going on, or what should I do about it.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

I bailed!!

Never bail (except on clifftop paths). Fight to the end, and bring to controlled stop  Beeps are there to help you, not frighten you !

Edited January 5, 2023 by Cerbera

[Grandpa_Jay]

14 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Never bail (except on clifftop paths). Fight to the end, and bring to controlled stop  Beeps are there to help you, not frighten you !

Well, it is NOT helpful when I don't know what it is trying to tell me!  It is supposed to beep three times to tell me I am at 10mph - not continue beeping!  Or maybe the continued beeping IS telling me to stop?? Knowing WHAT it is trying to tell me would be helpful.  Continuous beeping while I have no clue why, is frightening - NOT helpful.   Especially when I continue reading about wheels beeping and then cut off!

BTW - Most of the time when I bail, it is a failed attempt at a controlled stop!

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Grandpa_Jay

[The Brahan Seer]

5 minutes ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

Well, it is NOT helpful when I don't know what it is trying to tell me!  It is supposed to beep three times to tell me I am at 10mph - not continue beeping!

You are missing the point as highlighted in this previous post on this thread...

The wheel beeps continuously when you hit 10mph as illustrated below, when you hit the next warning the pattern of the beeps change as shown but they still continue till you hit the next higher or lower one.

 

 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

It is supposed to beep three times to tell me I am at 10mph - not continue beeping! 

No no, it will do GROUPS of 3 beeps until you stop the condition causing them ie slow down ! No need to stop, unless you are not sure what they mean, as you say.

[The Brahan Seer]

10 minutes ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

Or maybe the continued beeping IS telling me to stop??

No, Its just telling you the speed you are doing by the pattern of the beeps. All the beeps are doing in this situation is giving you an audible representation of your speed.

[novazeus]

presuming ur using the king song app and ur signed up for it and registered. turn on the app, then the wheel and press connect when it shows s18.

then go to ur speed settings and set them to the max. these are just warnings, they aren't gonna stop u. the tiltback will but if ur just starting out, ur on a 30 mph wheel. u will know how fast ur going. have u hit 30mph yet? if u have, slow down. 15 mph sb ur tops now. turn off all that crap and focus on riding. 

pick ur lines with ur eyes and the wheel will folliw.

this is how mine is set and i've hit 18 mph so far.

Edited January 5, 2023 by novazeus