MrMonoWheel Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Shieeet this is making me want to go sherman s over v13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Running a spring on such low travel is going to be a bit of a headache to set up for different rider weights. I would much prefer air on this application and in fact could be a deal breaker unless they are at least going to offer various poundage springs (2 isnt nearly enough) and adjustable preload is a crutch at best, only suitable for minor adjustments. Bit deflated now tbh. We'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeuc Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 7 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: In terms of loading I see most manufactures seem to be stating 120kg where as eWheels often seem to state 325 or 330lbs. For instance SpeedyFeed list the "Max Load" of the ShermanMAX as 120kg (264lbs) where as eWheels shows it as 330lb/150kg. Any idea where this discrepancy comes from? Usually those discrepancies come from the rating of the tire itself. In the FAQ section for the v13 there is an entry which sums up why some manufacturers list different values for this metric especially pre-launch: Quote The specification sheet has a max weight limit of 120kg/264lb, is this right for such a powerful machine? This spec is expected to change. The reasoning was based on the tire’s ‘max weight limit’, which is typically a order of magntitude less than the tested ‘burst limit’. So likely once the wheel is out some higher weight limit will be determined (how exactly I am not sure) (I have seen wording similar to this for other wheels which is why I think it applies here) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Planemo said: Running a spring on such low travel is going to be a bit of a headache to set up for different rider weights. I would much prefer air on this application... Bit deflated now tbh. We'll see. Yeah, so am I actually. It's good that they have 80- and 80+ options but there is quite a bit of daylight between me and 80kg I'm afraid. Sad to say but this may very well take it off my wish list: 😔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 52 minutes ago, rebeuc said: Usually those discrepancies come from the rating of the tire itself. ... So likely once the wheel is out some higher weight limit will be determined (how exactly I am not sure) That makes sense but still it is surprising that eWheels is the only one that updates limits. If all that is required is a sturdier tyre I'm surprised no one else makes mention of it, and even on eWheels site it's pretty berried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 32 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Yeah, so am I actually. It's good that they have 80- and 80+ options but there is quite a bit of daylight between me and 80kg I'm afraid. Sad to say but this may very well take it off my wish list: 😔 Yeah its maddening that they went this route. Air is a tried and proven technology that would be perfect for this application. I would hazard a guess that its down to cost - its a lot simpler and cheaper to throw a spring in an unfinished tube than accurately machine a reliable air tight chamber that sees 1000's of strokes a day. If it is down to cost I just wish they offered two options - a 'regular' with spring and say a 'pro' with air. Its not even like the stock forks could be upgraded like other wheels with rear mounted shocks as theres no doubt the Sherman is a proprietry system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) Yeah, It's a real shame. I get why some prefer coiled springs (lineal spring rate, reliable mechanics and simple adjustment). They are by far the most common suspension system in the world generally and for good reason but for me the major limitation is serviceable range. I know air springs are annoying to adjust and that they tend to leak and require re-pumping every few weeks (which I'm told can take a surprising amount of effort) but at least they cover a very wide range of loads. Also the exponential spring rate is actually appealing to someone like me who is genuinely worried about bottoming out suspension. If they had coil springs rated in 20kg increments from say 60kg to 160kg than I would just select the rate that was appropriate and I dare say I would be perfectly happy with it but expecting everyone form 80kg - 150kg to use the same spring with only 90mm of travel just seems laughable. Edited October 4, 2022 by Slartibartfast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Planemo said: I would hazard a guess that its down to cost - its a lot simpler and cheaper to throw a spring in an unfinished tube than accurately machine a reliable air tight chamber that sees 1000's of strokes a day. Possibly, though my guess is that the decision to use coil springs is not necessarily down to cost. I suspect the decision to opt for coils over air is more likely to have come down to reliability over adjustability. As mentioned above air springs do tend to leak over time and require topping up where as once coil springs are dialed in they remain consistent. By the look of those MTB forks with different mechanisms in the left and right staunchness I dare say they're not saving much by using springs so it's consistency rather than cost that is driving their decision. Heck, a set of those forks costs something in the order of 700 USD on their own if I'm not mistaken: 😲 Edited October 4, 2022 by Slartibartfast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Wall Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Coil over air for me is a no Brainer. And fork springs are easily swapped. When properly setup , coil fork is more plush, more lively, more reliable, more consistent, and just rides better. Air fork only has a weight advantage. The 90mm travel is a good thing. Absorb the sharp hits with a less pedal strikes The fact this is inverted is just icing on the cake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Jon Wall said: Coil over air for me is a no Brainer. Totally agree with all your points on where coil is better than air. 1 hour ago, Jon Wall said: And fork springs are easily swapped. And therin lies the rub. As yet, we only know of 2 different coils. Which leads to a very real potential problem with your quote 'when properly setup'... 1 hour ago, Jon Wall said: Air fork only has a weight advantage. Weight advantage is not the reason why they are used 99% of the time. Ease of adjustability for any rider is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonoWheel Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 To be fair, I'm sure the aftermarket will have different weighted springs for this in a matter of months (depending on if it really is necessary). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucner Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Unicycle Santa said: To be fair, I'm sure the aftermarket will have different weighted springs for this in a matter of months (depending on if it really is necessary). Spring companies make custom springs. You just need to specify what you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 4 hours ago, Planemo said: And therin lies the rub. As yet, we only know of 2 different coils. I would think that the manufacturer would do their best to make a shock that uses existing parts, such as springs. I don't know if there are standard sizes for fork springs, but if there are, the Sher-S spring size is most probably one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DjPanJan Posted October 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2022 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 That Sherman-S has impressive climbing torque, and traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 At this point, the only thing potentially stopping me from buying this is the priceI hope it's good and not like the 2022 wheels till now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonoWheel Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: At this point, the only thing potentially stopping me from buying this is the priceI hope it's good and not like the 2022 wheels till now. The single thing stopping me from buying this is the top speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 31 minutes ago, Unicycle Santa said: The single thing stopping me from buying this is the top speed Isn't 45+mph fast enough on an EUC? Do people want to ride 60mph+ all the time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, ETAonTheEUC said: Isn't 45+mph fast enough on an EUC? Do people want to ride 60mph+ all the time? 45 mph is only 73 km/h. Sherman-S top speed is 75 km/h. To ride with city traffic, you need to be able to maintain at least 35 mph to 40-ish mph. But there are hills, headwinds, and bumps. In other words, you need Headroom! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Jon Wall said: The 90mm travel is a good thing. Absorb the sharp hits with a less pedal strikes 90mm is (probably) a good thing if you can get the right spring to match. However if your loading the system to the max and have taken up half of those 90mm just by standing on it suddenly the remaining 45mm doesn't look so great. 10 hours ago, Unicycle Santa said: To be fair, I'm sure the aftermarket will have different weighted springs for this in a matter of months (depending on if it really is necessary). This I'm not so sure about. Yes there are plenty of springs for mountain bikes but I suspect these forks are different enough from MTB forks that a simple spring swap isn't that straight forward. For one thing, from what I understand most MTB forks typically have somewhere between 130-160mm of travel; with Fastace boasting 200mm on their model. Even "short travel" MTBs still have 100-120mm of travel so I don't know how many options there are going to be for our setup but my guess is "not many". 7 hours ago, mrelwood said: I don't know if there are standard sizes for fork springs, but if there are, the Sher-S spring size is most probably one. Well, here's hoping... 7 hours ago, Eucner said: Spring companies make custom springs. You just need to specify what you want. Sure, but were getting ahead of ourselves here. I have actually tried to get custom springs made before and it really wasn't that simple. The spring I was after wasn't a fork spring but there was still a lot involved with it and thinking "I'll just get custom springs made if it isn't right" really isn't setting off on the right foot. By the way, does anyone know what is going on with Fastace's asymmetric fork design. It looks like one side does the "springing" while the other side does the "dampening". Is that how it works? I think this is common with MTB forks. Edited October 5, 2022 by Slartibartfast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 The Sher-S is looking like it might be a great wheel. The shock action does look next level in all the videos. Unless there are Abrams-like surprises coming up, I predict large sales figures. Damn, if it was 1/3 lighter, 1/3 cheaper, and with 1/3 less battery, even I might buy it! Despite the lack of looks and Inmotion's riding mode adjustments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidenHUN Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Do we have any info about the release date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: 1/3 lighter Yes! 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: 1/3 cheaper Yes!! 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: and with 1/3 less battery Booooo!!!! No!!!! 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: Unless there are Abrams-like surprises coming up, I predict large sales figures. Yep! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 10 hours ago, techyiam said: To ride with city traffic, you need to be able to maintain at least 35 mph to 40-ish mph. My 100V Sherman does this nicely... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteWheelie Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) I had a regular Sherman and I agree, the extra speed headroom (and hopefully redundancy like the V13) is something I need before I buy another EUC. Although the Sherman has enough power for 90% of situations, you still have to always be cognizant of it's limits or risk overpowering in specific situations. I want a wheel that I can just forget about and focus on riding, whatever the situation. So while I love the suspension approach they're taking here, I'm going to wait for a model with more voltage/power. Maybe the next version of the Sherman S, or even better an upgraded Abrams S (17" rim is ideal to me). Edited October 5, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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