Veteran wheels beeper status over Bluetooth

[supercurio]

Apps can tell the when a wheel is beeping on most Begode, Inmotion and Kingsong products.
On Begode, the beeper status is indicated as a boolean, on Inmotion it's when the "Inverter Load" is at 100%, and KingSong when the "Safety Margin" reaches 0%.

LeaperKim and the Veteran wheels: Sherman, Abrams and Sherman max are missing this crucial capability which allows to relay the beeps over bluetooth speakers or haptics like via smart watches.
However, there is unused room in the data packets sent over BLE, so that could absolutely be added.

I've contacted @Linnea Veteran over Facebook in public  and Instagram as private message, to describe the value of this real-time information and how effective it is to prevent over-lean crashes when riders don't hear the beeps.

Nice to see Linnea is in this forum too!

I hope that Leaperkim will catch-up with other brands on this must-have safety feature, now that it is supported by @Seba's EUC World, DarknessBot, @enaon's eucWatch and my own EUC Alarm app.

Edited February 27, 2022 by supercurio

[Chriull]

2 hours ago, supercurio said:

On Begode, the beeper status is indicated as a boolean,

That's great! And gives a nice possibility to be integrated in our smartphone/watch apps - if this not already happened (and i missed this). @Seba& @enaon & @Ilya Shkolnik

2 hours ago, supercurio said:

on Inmotion it's when the "Inverter Load" is at 100%, and KingSong when the "Safety Margin" reaches 0%.

These are the conditions once one aleeady starts to faceplant. KS already starts alarm beeps at 88% inverter load.

Afair Inmotion announced alarm conditions as one of the first wheels to the app. Don't know how this wirks with the newest inmotion wheels (firmware versions) and our 3rd party apps...

[supercurio]

Yes it happened for Begode wheels at about the same time as I released EUC Alarm, all thanks to @enaon who shared his findings already back in May 2021.

I'm not sure yet about the exact values on both Inmotion and Kingsong data however - I only can tell that EUC World 0% or -1% safety margin is the same as beeps on Kingsong 16X, EUC World doesn't have "Inverter Load" for V10F and "Inverter Load" can go higher than 100% on V11 (in graphs they shared last year in a crash analysis).

@Chriull and as you point this out, it highlights that instead of sending only a boolean for the beeper status, both a value (0-100 or 0-127 if applicable) representing inverter load and a boolean for beeper status can probably be sent in the room available.
That would allow relaying the original beeps or make the app beep at a preferred load (higher like 80% instead of 70%) - a popular request.

Edited February 28, 2022 by supercurio

[Planemo]

6 hours ago, supercurio said:

Yes it happened for Begode wheels at about the same time as I released EUC Alarm

Yeah and the Begode 'EUC Speed Guardian' wouldn't exist without this BLE info either.

It would be great if Veteran would add this functionality, especially given that end users can update FW. I can feel the EUCW vibrations in my Pebble at all speeds, so if EUCW can send the original Veteran 70% alarm to it, I would be super happy!

(I'm not brave enough to change it to 80%, and it's fast enough for me at 70 anyway) 

[supercurio]

@Planemo EUC Speed Guardian is the original, hardware equivalent.

It has a "hub" which literally plugs onto the beeper connector to detect if its signal is on or off.
Then this status is replicated by a receiver (the guard) that's installed on the helmet.

[Freestyler]

14 hours ago, supercurio said:

On Begode, the beeper status is indicated as a boolean, on Inmotion it's when the "Inverter Load" is at 100%, and KingSong when the "Safety Margin" reaches 0%.

It's a flag on InMotion as well, at least for the v11.

That was where we found the flag initially with @enaon.

 

This is just the beginning though.

This is a sneak peak from the work we've been doing lately:

 

https://streamable.com/66fufd

 

On the free spin video of my MCM5v2 above you can observe multiple things:

1. We now have the PWM as reported by the wheel (NOT calculated)
2. The wheel beeps at 75% and not at 80% as previously thought (my guess is that it holds true for all begode wheels)
3. We can also calculate the speed that the wheel will beep at certain voltage (the value on the right "44")

 

Stay tuned for more info!

Edited February 28, 2022 by Freestyler

[Planemo]

31 minutes ago, supercurio said:

@Planemo EUC Speed Guardian is the original, hardware equivalent.

It has a "hub" which literally plugs onto the beeper connector to detect if its signal is on or off.
Then this status is replicated by a receiver (the guard) that's installed on the helmet.

Ah apologies, I thought it used a BT signal rather than being hardwired to the beeper signal wires 

[supercurio]

11 minutes ago, Freestyler said:

It's a flag on InMotion as well, at least for the v11.
That was where we found the flag initially with @enaon.

Interesting. Then for Inmotion it would mean that at least the V11 logs the "Inverter Load" value in its "black box" which can be read later by the Inmotion app, as seen here:
In the graph labelled "Output" as %.

I made a mistake earlier by remembering wrong BTW, it only goes to 100% so I'll edit the previous posts.

11 minutes ago, Freestyler said:

This is just the beginning though.
This is a sneak peak from the work we've been doing lately:

https://streamable.com/66fufd

On the free spin video of my MCM5v2 above you can observe multiple things:

1. We now have the PWM as reported by the wheel (NOT calculated)
2. The wheel beeps at 75% and not at 80% as previously thought (my guess is that it holds true for all begode wheels)
3. We can also calculate the speed that the wheel will beep at certain voltage (the value on the right "44")

Stay tuned for more info!

Super cool !
Knowing the data is here here gives me the incentive to look again at those packets. It's the first time I regret not owning a Begode wheel, to participate in the reverse-engineering effort 😉
I might request to send some wheel data recording from the EUC Alarm app to see for myself 😄

75% is the same as with what was disclosed in the Master speed test video by a Begode employee so that seems consistent.

Looking forward to your findings, it's excellent news for racers who would like beeps at higher loads and safety conscious riders who'd prefer 70 or 65%.

 

So far, no reply from @Linnea Veteran regarding the request for Veteran wheels however.

[Chriull]

2 hours ago, supercurio said:

Interesting. Then for Inmotion it would mean that at least the V11 logs the "Inverter Load" value in its "black box" which can be read later by the Inmotion app, as seen here:
In the graph labelled "Output" as %.

I made a mistake earlier by remembering wrong BTW, it only goes to 100% so I'll edit the previous posts.

Inmotion V11 from some firmware version on started reporting pwm % normal by bluetooth to all apps - EUC World shows the wheels reported pwm % for KS and new Inmotions.

As it seems Begode are new to this reporting, too - just leaperkim missing..

[supercurio]

10 minutes ago, Chriull said:

As it seems Begode are new to this reporting, too

I wonder if it's something that was added in firmware updates for the black boards.
Haha such a tease @Freestyler

- just kidding, take your time to find everything desired, make a nice writeup & video, sharing the information so it'll make a difference and taking all the credits deserved.

10 minutes ago, Chriull said:

- just leaperkim missing..

Yep. If the getting in touch with @Linnea Veteran doesn't work, would there be other ways to approach them, maybe more from an engineering perspective?

If anybody knows, please say hi 👋 either in public or private - whatever works

[Rawnei]

Did you ever get in touch with LeaperKim?

[supercurio]

Nope, time to retry I guess!

[jugon666]

Hi guys apologies in advance if this has been addressed before but I notice that the leaperkim app can connect and get telemetry from the Sherman S without having the bluetooth turned on!, was wondering how does it actually communicate? Does anyone know?

[Chriull]

11 minutes ago, jugon666 said:

Hi guys apologies in advance if this has been addressed before but I notice that the leaperkim app can connect and get telemetry from the Sherman S without having the bluetooth turned on!, was wondering how does it actually communicate? Does anyone know?

The wheels have normally two bluetooth connections - one for music which can be paired and disconnected.

The bluetooth ble connection for telemetry and settings is not "visible" on the phone but managed by the used app.

With bluetooth turned off on the phone the app won't get data. If leaperkim did not change to wlan ... But did not read here anything in this direction.

[jugon666]

16 minutes ago, Chriull said:

The wheels have normally two bluetooth connections - one for music which can be paired and disconnected.

The bluetooth ble connection for telemetry and settings is not "visible" on the phone but managed by the used app.

With bluetooth turned off on the phone the app won't get data. If leaperkim did not change to wlan ... But did not read here anything in this direction.

ah ok thanks for the reply. The reason I was asking is that I owned an inmotion v12ht and at least the inmotion app would not connect to the euc if the phone bluetooth was off, but on the Sherman S and the leaperkim app it works regardless so it this was really surprising to me... so are you saying that the leaperkim app sneakily forces on the bluetooth antenna on the phone without activating the bluetooth icon on the screen? thats sneaky/scary? XD

[Chriull]

51 minutes ago, jugon666 said:

the phone without activating the bluetooth icon on the screen?

That comes only up with once a paired connection is established? Imho. Maybe? I could not really tell.

But if you deactivate bluetooth and don't allow the app to turn it on you should know!

[Charg1na]

Hi All,

Just a silly question.  Has there been anymore movement with Lynx in getting alarms sent via apps bluetooth to headphones?

[Rawnei]

5 hours ago, Charg1na said:

Hi All,

Just a silly question.  Has there been anymore movement with Lynx in getting alarms sent via apps bluetooth to headphones?

Lynx already sends PWM over bluetooth and you can use that for alarms in EUC World or Darknessbot.

[Charg1na]

Great news.  I am unable to achieve that from using DarknessBot.  I have an apple phone so EUC World is not an option.  How is this achieved?

 

[Charg1na]

Is there anyone who would be able to help with this?

[Rawnei]

On 7/21/2024 at 12:36 AM, Charg1na said:

Great news.  I am unable to achieve that from using DarknessBot.  I have an apple phone so EUC World is not an option.  How is this achieved?

 

I don't use DarknessBot, but what is it you want to achieve? The value in Darknessbot is from the wheel, then you can set up alarms in darknessbot based on those values.

[Charg1na]

What I am trying to achieve is to have the beeps the wheel produces to come through my bluetooth headset in my helmut.  this used to happen on the same phone, same app, same bluetooth headset on my T4.  now i use the Lynx this no longer happens.  As when i was on the T4 i could not hear the beeps so having them come through the bluetooh headset was a necessity.  I would like to have this same thing to happen.

I am roughly thinking that it is due to the firmware i have on the Lynx.  I believe i have the 07.  As i have read elsewhere that the extended settings on darknessBot only come through with the updated firmware.  But i am not able to prove or disprove this theory.

 

[Rawnei]

46 minutes ago, Charg1na said:

What I am trying to achieve is to have the beeps the wheel produces to come through my bluetooth headset in my helmut.  this used to happen on the same phone, same app, same bluetooth headset on my T4.  now i use the Lynx this no longer happens.  As when i was on the T4 i could not hear the beeps so having them come through the bluetooh headset was a necessity.  I would like to have this same thing to happen.

I am roughly thinking that it is due to the firmware i have on the Lynx.  I believe i have the 07.  As i have read elsewhere that the extended settings on darknessBot only come through with the updated firmware.  But i am not able to prove or disprove this theory.

 

Upgrade your firmware, then set PWM alarm to 86%.

[Charg1na]

Howdy, I have updated my firmware.  I have set the PWM for 75%, yes very cautious.  i have completed a free spin and yes the wheel beeped for PWM and shut down at just over 90km/hr.  I then repeated the same event with my phone connected, using DarknessBot and my headset connected.  no beeps on phone or vibration alert nor anything through the headset - yes it beeped from the wheel.  Is there something i am missing or not doing right?

 

Edited August 4 by Charg1na

[Rawnei]

12 minutes ago, Charg1na said:

Howdy, I have updated my firmware.  I have set the PWM for 75%, yes very cautious.  i have completed a free spin and yes the wheel beeped for PWM and shut down at just over 90km/hr.  I then repeated the same event with my phone connected, using DarknessBot and my headset connected.  no beeps on phone or vibration alert nor anything through the headset - yes it beeped from the wheel.  Is there something i am missing or not doing right?

 

You set the pwm alarm inside then app, someone who uses darknessbot could tell you how but I'm sure you can find it if you look around in the app.