Inmotion V13 Speculation

[techyiam]

28 minutes ago, novazeus said:

it actually looks manageable in this video, not as big. but he says in the replies that he won't be taking this wheel offroad because it's not made for that. 

that lost me. that's what i was thinking the bigger diameter wheel at 100 plus pounds would be like. 

For the type of offroad riding depicted in the video, I thought he was at ease and having fun on the V13. 

 

[novazeus]

14 minutes ago, techyiam said:

For the type of offroad riding depicted in the video, I thought he was at ease and having fun on the V13. 

 

i know, i was thinking the same thing. 

him riding it, it doesn't look that big.

so i was rethinking it, and then i read the replies. he's obviously a very experienced rider, and a few decades younger than me, but still, i feel his pain, like me trying to make my old ks 18s work in my pastures. u can do it, but walking would be a helluva lot less work. 

a miniature v13 sounds great!  personally, i don't need a long range wheel, but u kinda do in this euc passion, need to think about resale.

[Paul A]

Inmotion V13 Setup & First Impressions

2.2K views

Dec 29, 2022

 

 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Clem604 said:

The V11 really is a great all around wheel

It sure is!

5 hours ago, Clem604 said:

If the smaller V13 based wheel they are working on is an upgraded V11 in spirit then I think it will be a big hit for IM.

As long as they upgrade the whole suspension slider system. We now have the T4, and next year probably competitors from both KS and Veteran. First gen 2020 suspension simply won’t cut it anymore. And my guess is that it’s a notable limiting factor for the V13 sales as well.

[Wraith Rider]

Is it me or is there overwhelming hate on the V13?  It only tells me that Begode riders are scared.  I mean you can only buy larger motors and bolt more batteries on for so long .  I guess they know Begode doesn't have the budget or the ability to do what Inmotion is doing with their wheels.  All the chatter is you see online is only a small percentage of the buyers for these wheels.  For 90% of riders, they will never use the top end speed or go the full distance of a MP much less the V13.  Inmotion was smart in keeping it in house for so long to test, they are creating a ton of buzz with all the hate.  

 

[Wraith Rider]

5 hours ago, Clem604 said:

The V11 really is a great all around wheel now that I've had it for some time. I suspect I won't be riding it much ,if at all , when my Sherman S arrives but that doesn't take away from its "jack of all trades" nature. If the smaller V13 based wheel they are working on is an upgraded V11 in spirit then I think it will be a big hit for IM.

I love my V11 and the V13 will be the perfect complimentary wheel for everything the V11 can't do.  I could only really ask for a redesigned V11 with features of the V13.  

[BKW]

12 minutes ago, Wraith Rider said:

Is it me or is there overwhelming hate on the V13?  It only tells me that Begode riders are scared.  I mean you can only buy larger motors and bolt more batteries on for so long .  I guess they know Begode doesn't have the budget or the ability to do what Inmotion is doing with their wheels.  All the chatter is you see online is only a small percentage of the buyers for these wheels.  For 90% of riders, they will never use the top end speed or go the full distance of a MP much less the V13.  Inmotion was smart in keeping it in house for so long to test, they are creating a ton of buzz with all the hate.  

 

Who knows, but for me I personally think a lot of it is the battery. If the battery was larger then it'd be a better choice for this specific wheel. HOWEVER, the safety is unprecedented in this wheel, so I think it depends on who the person who wants to buy it wants. For me, the safety is important, but not as important as other factors considering this wheel combined as I think a lot of the wheels are "safe enough". You make a good point about most people not using what is available on the wheels per ride usually, but for the price people want the best of the best and if the battery isn't "the best" then they may look elsewhere considering the price.

I often feel the same way about begode riders as you've mentioned. When I watch these guys on youtube it seems like they are almost cult-ish for begode, as if anything but begode is somehow inferior. At the end of the say, people listen to influencers on youtube, but they'll ultimately come to their own decision when it comes to splashing that kind of cash.

Edited December 29, 2022 by BKW

[Wraith Rider]

1 minute ago, BKW said:

Who knows, but for me I personally think a lot of it is the battery. If the battery was larger then it'd be a better choice for this specific wheel. HOWEVER, the safety is unprecedented in this wheel, so I think it depends on who the person who wants to buy it wants. For me, the safety is important, but not as important as other factors considering this wheel combined as I think a lot of the wheels are "safe enough".

I often feel the same way about begode riders as you've mentioned. When I watch these guys on youtube it seems like they are almost cult-ish for begode, as if anything but begode is somehow inferior. At the end of the say, people listen to influencers on youtube, but they'll ultimately come to their own decision when it comes to splashing that kind of cash.

Well said.  Battery size is going to be different for everyone because there are so many factors that affect how many miles you can get from it.  For me I'm 185 fully geared, cruise between 30 and 40mph and can't do more than 60mi on a given day due to my knees.  I'm too old to be trying to set distance records.  I use the wheel to enjoy time outside.  As much as I love the v13 speed aspect to keep up on group rides that I don't do as often anymore, I just appreciate the attention to detail and build quality Inmotion is doing.  I just feel like $5000 for a V13 is a much better buy than a $4500 MP with some more batteries.  I'll take quality all day every day over quantity.  

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Wraith Rider said:

Is it me or is there overwhelming hate on the V13?  It only tells me that Begode riders are scared.

I haven't noticed that particularly. And no matter how wonderful the V13 turns out to be it doesn't take anything away from existing Begode riders, and if they are happy with their machines, why should this upset them ? If anything it should only help raise the overall standard of EUC design and manufacture in next gen wheels as other companies must surely feel some need to raise their game to compete with it ?

Edited December 29, 2022 by Cerbera

[Clem604]

40 minutes ago, Wraith Rider said:

I love my V11 and the V13 will be the perfect complimentary wheel for everything the V11 can't do.  I could only really ask for a redesigned V11 with features of the V13.  

I know IM employees are sometimes on the forum, or have been.

 

HEY INMOTION EMPLOYEES, give us a V11S! Or you could call it a V11 Pro Max Ultra

Edited December 29, 2022 by Clem604

[Punxatawneyjoe]

This video seemed legit and the small review at the end seems fair.

 

[techyiam]

54 minutes ago, Wraith Rider said:

 I just feel like $5000 for a V13 is a much better buy than a $4500 MP with some more batteries.  I'll take quality all day every day over quantity.  

Even if you have no love for Begode wheels, the V13 will find fierce competition from Leaper Kim's Sherman-S. Also, it is hard to say how well Extreme Bull's Commander Pro is going to sell.

I would hate to ride with with Marty and his merry band without a Master Pro.

[Mango]

The V13 range is its range for a 3000wh battery. There is only one person making range such a big issue for these new generation of hyperwheels and that person is about as relevant today as Overheat Hill.

[Freeforester]

2 hours ago, Wraith Rider said:

Is it me or is there overwhelming hate on the V13?  It only tells me that Begode riders are scared.  I mean you can only buy larger motors and bolt more batteries on for so long .  I guess they know Begode doesn't have the budget or the ability to do what Inmotion is doing with their wheels.  All the chatter is you see online is only a small percentage of the buyers for these wheels.  For 90% of riders, they will never use the top end speed or go the full distance of a MP much less the V13.  Inmotion was smart in keeping it in house for so long to test, they are creating a ton of buzz with all the hate.  

 

I don’t think there’s much hate (a strong emotion) for the V13. Right now, it just seems that there is not that much that it does demonstrably  ‘better’ than the Sherman ‘S’ for the price point -well, ,albeit apart from the trolley handle rigidity, albeit at the expense of seated riding comfort; it may have great build quality, and even waterproof batteries ( is this truly so much better than the Sherman S ? Neither strike me as being particularly dangerous); there doesn’t seem to be much wrong with the S, the suspension has already had plaudits, whilst it is noted that the V13 bottom nuts are vulnerable, and we’ve as yet not really had an in depth review of much of the various attributes of the V13, so I feel it’s a little premature to pass judgement on it either way. This susoension vulnerability would seem to some to be a design flaw, particularly in the eyes of many off-roaders, not that I expect too many would want to trail ride with such a heavy wheel anyway - another area where the 20” ‘S’ might ‘edge’ it over the 22” wheel?  
 

If your beef is particularly against Begode riders then the hate would appear to potentially be a two-way thing, and I’m not sure that stereotyping or pigeon-holing a specific machine sector or marque is even that relevant - eg I have a later edition M SuperPro, which I personally think is great, but none of the newer Begode wheels are of any remote interest to me - I think they’re a confection of problems held together by pi55-poor material choices, design bodges and sloppy execution and abysmal build quality - quite the antithesis of the V13 in most respects, though this is not to say that the latter is the wheel to beat - at this point in time, the Sherman ‘S’ just seems -on paper at any rate - to have it beat on nearly every metric, apart perhaps in terms of ‘finesse’, ie an aesthetic, eye of the beholder ‘advantage’ rather than an overwhelming killer USP. 

As ever, YMMV, and indeed, why not?

 

[Wraith Rider]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Even if you have no love for Begode wheels, the V13 will find fierce competition from Leaper Kim's Sherman-S. Also, it is hard to say how well Extreme Bull's Commander Pro is going to sell.

I would hate to ride with with Marty and his merry band without a Master Pro.

If you ride nonstop for that type of distance then of course lol. I can gladly say I don't ride for distance records anymore.  As for the Sherman S, I think its still in a separate class just because of the top speed.  Also Wrong Ways initial video does warrant real concern on what the reliability on the origami type structure will yield over time.  How many people will tighten all the bolts on the wheel after every ride?  Maybe possible go through and blue locktite all the bolts?  It will also be by far the hardest wheel to change a tire on.  I think with IMs in house ability to fabricate, they should consider building their own fork shock suspension.  The air suspension wins for reliability against all others but it fails on real dampen settings.  

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Wraith Rider

[Wraith Rider]

18 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

I don’t think there’s much hate (a strong emotion) for the V13. Right now, it just seems that there is not that much that it does demonstrably  ‘better’ than the Sherman ‘S’ for the price point -well, ,albeit apart from the trolley handle rigidity, albeit at the expense of seated riding comfort; it may have great build quality, and even waterproof batteries ( is this truly so much better than the Sherman S ? Neither strike me as being particularly dangerous); there doesn’t seem to be much wrong with the S, the suspension has already had plaudits, whilst it is noted that the V13 bottom nuts are vulnerable, and we’ve as yet not really had an in depth review of much of the various attributes of the V13, so I feel it’s a little premature to pass judgement on it either way. This susoension vulnerability would seem to some to be a design flaw, particularly in the eyes of many off-roaders, not that I expect too many would want to trail ride with such a heavy wheel anyway - another area where the 20” ‘S’ might ‘edge’ it over the 22” wheel?  
 

If your beef is particularly against Begode riders then the hate would appear to potentially be a two-way thing, and I’m not sure that stereotyping or pigeon-holing a specific machine sector or marque is even that relevant - eg I have a later edition M SuperPro, which I personally think is great, but none of the newer Begode wheels are of any remote interest to me - I think they’re a confection of problems held together by pi55-poor material choices, design bodges and sloppy execution and abysmal build quality - quite the antithesis of the V13 in most respects, though this is not to say that the latter is the wheel to beat - at this point in time, the Sherman ‘S’ just seems -on paper at any rate - to have it beat on nearly every metric, apart perhaps in terms of ‘finesse’, ie an aesthetic, eye of the beholder ‘advantage’ rather than an overwhelming killer USP. 

As ever, YMMV, and indeed, why not?

 

Some good points but like you said, taking a V13 off-road isn't really going to make it a strong point regardless if Inmotion marketed it as such.  I also have a 1600 Msuper MSX and never had an issue with it.  I have friends who own all the new Begode wheels.  Nothing against them, its just the people who are hardcore Begode and nothing else compares.  Like I mentioned above, the new sherman s has a questionable reliability issue structurally speaking.  The pedals are already shown to have some major issues with the design they went with.  IMO the only things I really like about the new sherman are the shocks that were honestly a long time coming, and the choice to try magnesium plates.  This is why the best weather proof camera bodies are made from solid magnesium. No rusting.  Also I do prefer the way IM designs their wheels with weight balance and ergonomics in mind.  To me all the other wheels look the same with the exception to all the KS concept designs but poor adaptation to have it work properly with reliability.

[Tawpie]

"ride through a river"... haven't seen anyone try that yet!

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

"ride through a river"... haven't seen anyone try that yet!

Close enough. Haven't you heard the tale?

The Tale of the Swamp Monster

 

[Tawpie]

Just now, Funky said:

Close enough. Haven't you heard the tale?

The Tale of the Swamp Monster

 

(I meant on Challenger)

Nobody believes the marketing enough to actually try submerging their batteries... not yet at least. 

[Funky]

Just now, Tawpie said:

(I meant on Challenger)

Nobody believes the marketing enough to actually try submerging their batteries... not yet at least. 

Ahh i see. I bet some will eventually..  Reviewer's will do anything for "content".

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Wraith Rider said:

As for the Sherman S, I think its still in a separate class just because of the top speed.  Also Wrong Ways initial video does warrant real concern on what the reliability on the origami type structure will yield over time.  How many people will tighten all the bolts on the wheel after every ride?  Maybe possible go through and blue locktite all the bolts?  It will also be by far the hardest wheel to change a tire on.

For me, the jury is still out regarding accessible top speed on the V13. Other than Kuji Rolls, I am not seeing proof of 90 km/h top speed. And Kuji Rolls was using custom pads on an isolated piece of tarmac for a fraction of a second. For more mere mortals on roads, how many will be able to access the top speed. As for the Sherman-S, people are definitely able to go 80+ km/h. The proof will be in the pudding. 

Wheel removal may potentially be more difficult on the Sherman-S. But, we have to wait until videos are out on that.

Meanwhile, Sherman-S appears to be holding up well according to most accounts. Can't say too much about the V13 since the V13's are being unboxed.

V11 owners will likely have a pretty good idea on how frequent the V13's suspension will need servicing.

We will know soon enough.

5 hours ago, Wraith Rider said:

IMO the only things I really like about the new sherman are the shocks that were honestly a long time coming, and the choice to try magnesium plates.

For 2022, the Sherman-S raised the bar for suspension. Magnesium alloy use in structural parts in an electric wheel is impressive since they managed to keep price at bay, and the parts are standing up to use.

6 hours ago, Wraith Rider said:

The air suspension wins for reliability against all others but it fails on real dampen settings.

How is an air spring more reliable than a steel coil spring?

5 hours ago, Wraith Rider said:

Also I do prefer the way IM designs their wheels with weight balance and ergonomics in mind. 

Based on my ownership experience with my V12, I will give them credit for western-like design quality, weather protection, and narrow width. Also, their design take serviceability into account. I like my V12 a lot for my use case, especially after the driver board swap, firmware update, and a change to scooter tire.

Having said that I like the Abrams more than my V12 for riding, but the V12 is easier to service due to poor QC in the Abrams. The quality of parts are good, but the bolt holes don't match on the battery packs. Also, weather sealing is mediocre. 

Hence, for me, the Sherman-S and V13 are too close to call until all the reviews are out, and I go down to EEVEES and check them out myself.

Edited December 30, 2022 by techyiam

[Eyss]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Meanwhile, Sherman-S appears to be holding up well according to most accounts

The wear after 100km makes the previous picture of 1000km wear on the v13 look a lot less concerning 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5753093224788593/?mibextid=Nif5oz

[Tawpie]

4 hours ago, Wraith Rider said:

Is it me or is there overwhelming hate on the V13?

Par for the course? I'm not in the market for a super-heavy and I doubt I could even stand over it, but at 118 lbs I would have expected more range than 30-70 miles. I know, I know, there are other factors involved but still.

[edit] I shouldn't really say that I expect a super-heavy to have lots of range... I'm starting to really believe that payload is a very big deal when it comes to range so it shouldn't surprise me that a 118 pounder is burning more Wh/mile than a 80 pound commander. And we already know the battery capacity is low for the class so we really shouldn't be expecting too much from it.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Tawpie

[Wraith Rider]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

How is an air spring more reliable than a steel coil spring?

I'm talking about the entire suspension system, not just a coil lol.  Begodes master suspension platform began with a ton of issues from horrible attachment point for the pump, the sloppy play in-between the rails, and the wrong dimensions for proper shock travel.  They tried to refine it over the 3 iterations of the master, then the T4 and finally the MP.  People from the east coast are saying the MP suspension was implemented without taking into consideration the weight difference.  Its pretty much the exact suspension from the Master platform.  Just a bigger wheel and more or less packs bolted on the exact same platform.  Why do you think so many models were able to be released so fast with hardly any testing?  Its like what has been said by a few reviewers....they just swap out parts from their back room and make a new model lol.  As for KS, it was touted as such a great off-road wheel by most of the community until the sliders basically started sticking from dirt and debris.  Just like you can buy a whole redesigned Begode suspension system by EUC member, there is also a whole slider set you can buy to replace the current ones that someone makes.  Who makes upgraded air shocks for the V11?  Nobody.  Thats because they either work or if they break they are just replaced.  They may not be the most adjustable dampening but they are the most reliable.

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, Wraith Rider said:

until the sliders basically started sticking from dirt and debris.

I have found that they stick because the 'lubrication' KS thoughtlessly added turns to glue when exposed to air. Clean that out and they work quite well (can be made much much better with rollers, but once you get rid of the so-called-grease they don't totally suck).

Edited December 30, 2022 by Tawpie