Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Crab]

From my experience with the batteries don't mess with any updates or fiddling with them unnecessarily. The controller and bms system voltage reporting isn't very accurate and what you see is most likely incorrect.  If you take a fully charged unit and note reported voltage then unplug the packs and take readings  you will see the discrepancy as I did...just repair and ride! On another note I'm spending time on the ex30 now, quite the adjustment going to a heavy wheel.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Crab

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Crab said:

On another note I'm spending time on the ex30 now, quite the adjustment going to a heavy wheel.

Interesting.

When I very briefly stepped on an EX30, I immediately got a sense that it has a different ride characteristics than wheels like the Patton and S22/Pro.

Incidentally, I also thought the Extreme has a very similar ride characteristics, just a mini version of it, which I didn't mind.

I found the COG is carried down low, but it takes more effort to rotate the front left to right or vice versa. Also, the way it corners is quite different.

How are you liking the change in ride characteristics?

People who have an OG Sherman background usually get on with it quite naturally, or at least easier.

Even though the V13 is heavier than the EX30, and has a 22" wheel, I can naturally ride the V13, but not the EX30. So, this could be another factor as to why the adjustment curve is steeper than just due to the weight differences.

Edited December 3, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

yeah, haha, the battery percentage thing is cool, at first i thought it was some error code!

Sorry to hear that. Kingsong, especially Inmotion issue more error codes or messages. And sometimes, they can shut you out.

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

now that mine is all apart, is there anyway to manually balance the battery packs?

I don't know whether there is an official procedure to do this. But I found a way to improve my battery situation with my S22.

 

My S22 came with battery packs in which one battery pack does not fully charge to 100%. It's is always 1.2 V less (Pack 1). And the higher voltage pack doesn't charge to 126 V, but close (Pack 2).

The difference in voltage between the highest voltage cell and the lowest voltage cell is 30 mV for Pack 1, and 20 mV for Pack2. And this doesn't change for few charge cycles.

I also noticed Pack 1 never do cell balancing since it never get to a higher enough voltage. However, Pack 2 does.

 

I have seen unboxing videos in which some of these new wheels have battery packs with a voltage delta of about 20 mV, and even as low as 10 mV. Since my wheel is new, I would also like to see my packs have a voltage delta of 20 mV or less.

 

I didn't like the fact that Pack 1 doesn't do any cell balancing and has a voltage delta of 30 mv, so I decided to try a few things.

(1) Charge each pack separately to 100%. BTW, it is possible to ride with one pack, not that I dare. Afterwards, reconnect both battery packs.

Results:  The outcome turns out to be different from my expectation. Once I turn the power on, the voltage of Pack 1 immediately went down, and Pack 2 went up. Therefore, I assume the BMS's of both packs' calibration are not matched.

(2) I turn the potentiometer of the charger to increase charging voltage.

I turn the dial clockwise ever so slight. It is extremely sensitive.

With the slightly higher charging voltage, Pack 1 now does cell balancing. However, I am charging above 126.02 V. And error message will pop up.

(3) I charge the wheel until the green light on the charger come on, and in the app, verify that charging has stopped.

Leave the wheel off for at least 4 hours. Then turn the charger back on.

You can repeat one more time. But I mostly only do one additional cycle of cell balancing.

When I do that, the voltage delta of Pack 1 came down to about 20 mv, and about 10 mV for Pack 2 over a week or two of riding and recharging.

Moreover, the battery charges to 100% then sits at 99% for Pack 1 and 1.2 V higher for Pack 2.

 

[novazeus]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

Sorry to hear that. Kingsong, especially Inmotion issue more error codes or messages. And sometimes, they can shut you out.

u misunderstood. when i saw the battery percentsges, because the old firmware didn't show numerical percentages, i thought initially it was an error code, it was not.

so, i think i figured out the battery pack balancing thing.

 

this is the stuff i used on the rails.

what it looks like, paint.

 

[techyiam]

5 minutes ago, novazeus said:

so, i think i figured out the battery pack balancing thing.

You have less than 0.64 V difference between the 2 packs. That looks better than mine.

 

[novazeus]

52 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You have less than 0.64 V difference between the 2 packs. That looks better than mine.

 

i go way back with king song, 2017, figuring out how to balance packs. it's been their firmware always in my case. i've spent 3am calls with tina wong and finally got my 18s, their flagship model at the time, to finally charge properly. and all the forum experts back then were wrong as usual.

i see u have updated the firmware, so try this next time u charge. monitor the charging in the app, and as soon as they get to 100% soc, turn off the app, unplug the charger from the power source, then unplug the charger from the wheel.

i think what is happening, the charger still shows red but has actually stopped charging, unless it's magically pulling ions out of the air, because very little current is coming from the power source.

 

[Josh P]

On 12/3/2023 at 5:21 AM, OliG said:

Note: when the wheel is on and not moving, before displaying the remaining battery icon, the display now also shows the percentage of remaining battery . 

 

The only noticeable change and i love it lol 

[novazeus]

finished. added sound. good but not as good as the anker.

[novazeus]

 

 

[techyiam]

One data point from the latest version of Kingsong S22 Pro looks promising.

Notice the braided stainless steel cable sleeving. No more rust? Hooray!!

If the bearings in the rollers, and the wheel bearings are good, Kingsong finally has the remaining issues resolved except for the sliders open to dust, grit, and water ingress.

Chapeaux de roue  doubled down on the S22/Pro. You would think he would buy something else. Interesting how there are riders who still swear by the S22/Pro for jumping.

 

 

 

[novazeus]

11 minutes ago, techyiam said:

One data point from the latest version of Kingsong S22 Pro looks promising.

Notice the braided stainless steel cable sleeving. No more rust? Hooray!!

If the bearings in the rollers, and the wheel bearings are good, Kingsong finally has the remaining issues resolved except for the sliders open to dust, grit, and water ingress.

Chapeaux de roue  doubled down on the S22/Pro. You would think he would buy something else. Interesting how there are riders who still swear by the S22/Pro for jumping.

 

 

 

yeah, this s22 pro+ looks like it might be my next wheel. i'm not interested in the lynx anymore now that i know ex-gotway employees own the company. i thought their work looked familiar. 

i guess i'll have to wait until more details about this one comes out.

https://e-riderz.com.au/product/king-song-s22-pro-electric-unicycle/

[Crab]

Another big area of concern if everyone didn't already know is the yellow phase wire connection at the controller. If you notice discoloration keep an eye on it, some have got so hot they desolder themselves. Apparently more of an issue with the hh motor vs the og.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

yeah, this s22 pro+ looks like it might be my next wheel. i'm not interested in the lynx anymore now that i know ex-gotway employees own the company. i thought their work looked familiar. 

i guess i'll have to wait until more details about this one comes out.

https://e-riderz.com.au/product/king-song-s22-pro-electric-unicycle/

Kingsong seems to be still actively improving on the S22 Pro line, including firmware.

So if you like your S22 diy Pro, then the next version of the S22 Pro should be even better, probably more refined, higher discharge cells, but more or less, it is going to ride about the same.

Mind you Kingsong hasn't official said anything yet, but Denis Hagov was told in this year's expo in Germany that Kingsong is working on a premium euc that is above the S22 Pro, their flagship, so to speak. No mention of timeframe.

 

I own a Veteran Abrams. Although, it was a sales flop, it is a very well built, reliable and well designed wheel, IMO. Many riders talk highly of the OG Sherman and Sherman Max. It almost seems like Leaper Kim was formed by the key engineers from Begode that went rogue. The Sherman S and Patton have already been out for some time, and all indications indicate that they are well built, and most reliable. Bradley at Eevees talks highly of the Veteran brand.

Personally, I am not loyal to any brand. I examine their wheels, and study their designs, and hear what owners have to say. Then I decide after I have ridden them.

But in the end, it is your dollar, so you buy whatever you want, as how it should be.

Edited December 10, 2023 by techyiam

[okvp]

10 hours ago, Crab said:

Another big area of concern if everyone didn't already know is the yellow phase wire connection at the controller. If you notice discoloration keep an eye on it, some have got so hot they desolder themselves. Apparently more of an issue with the hh motor vs the og.

That's most likely due poorly made connection which is creating high resistance connection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_resistance_connection  

Some one working on the assembly line has had a hangover day...

[Crab]

30 minutes ago, okvp said:

That's most likely due poorly made connection which is creating high resistance connection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_resistance_connection  

Some one working on the assembly line has had a hangover day...

There is some speculation it has more to due with the hh motor drawing too much current at times if riding aggressively,  I know mine has some discoloration on both sides of that terminal but it's ok. Either way its worth keeping an eye on, Max B. even ended up rewiring his phase wires and connectors.

[okvp]

53 minutes ago, Crab said:

There is some speculation it has more to due with the hh motor drawing too much current at times if riding aggressively,  I know mine has some discoloration on both sides of that terminal but it's ok. Either way its worth keeping an eye on, Max B. even ended up rewiring his phase wires and connectors.

I don't think it's due the current, wires and  connectors are beefy. All three wires has the same current going on but only with yellow there has been couple reported faults. The yellow wire is first wire on the row and there are hall sensors connector and wires just next to it, it has to be pressed carefully and firmly in, otherwise it might not get completely in the connector. That can happen especially during high paced wheel assembly process.

Edited December 10, 2023 by okvp

[Rawnei]

59 minutes ago, Crab said:

There is some speculation it has more to due with the hh motor drawing too much current at times if riding aggressively,  I know mine has some discoloration on both sides of that terminal but it's ok. Either way its worth keeping an eye on, Max B. even ended up rewiring his phase wires and connectors.

Why would it draw more current than previous motor? By all accounts it even runs cooler. Also why would that manifest in just 1 out of 3 phase connectors showing symptoms?

Seems more likely it could be a bad solder in on the bullet connector from the motor or not inserted all the way.

Now I'm not sure but I think I've seen people having a problem on different connector (not the top one) but only ever heard of one case of failure.

[novazeus]

if anybody hears news about this new s22 pro+ with 50s batteries, pls lmk. seems like the slider problem is fixed better.

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

if anybody hears news about this new s22 pro+ with 50s batteries, pls lmk. seems like the slider problem is fixed better.

Sliders are updated on all latest S22 Pro, it's the same that I bought separately, with small side rollers.

[techyiam]

39 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Sliders are updated on all latest S22 Pro, it's the same that I bought separately, with small side rollers.

Do we know whether the latest sliders from Kingsong (with little side rollers) are better than the Hou Ningning sliders?

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Do we know whether the latest sliders from Kingsong (with little side rollers) are better than the Hou Ningning sliders?

The question would be if they are more durable and would last longer.

We don't know yet too early to say.

My guess is "yes" due to the addition of the side rollers.

[Crab]

12 hours ago, novazeus said:

if anybody hears news about this new s22 pro+ with 50s batteries, pls lmk. seems like the slider problem is fixed better.

https://t.me/NextGenMobility/1

Telegram link to his pricing

[novazeus]

7 hours ago, Rawnei said:

The question would be if they are more durable and would last longer.

We don't know yet too early to say.

My guess is "yes" due to the addition of the side rollers.

 

[Crab]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1309954636388245/?mibextid=dXMIcH

[novazeus]

48 minutes ago, Crab said:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1309954636388245/?mibextid=dXMIcH

yeah that sounds like a great deal in that area.

u know, for my preferences, with wheels, trucks, cars, motorcycles or these things, it's not about what looks cute or best specs on paper, it's what do i wanna drive. not one is better than the other, and what do i care, i didn't build them, insult them all u want, but for now i have three nice different types of wheels, not counting the s18 because it's dangerously slow maybe and i haven't changed the tire. 

so if amazon delivers a package like they do practically daily, my first choice for package retrieval tool is the v13 with the michelin. the ergonomics of the v13 are so comfortable. when i get rid of the innertube and slime, it will be perfect. 2nd choice would be v13 with knobby, plus when i start practicing freemounting on them, yeah, the big knobby. i love the kickstand and big handles. i took the seat and trolley handles off because they aren't really sturdy enough for my terrain and they'll stay nicer in storage. i love the handles so much, i'm wondering if a front handle(higher) would fit on the back? but yeah, just hangar characteristics, esp when it's pitch black out under these trees, real important. that tilt up, turn on, is nice. too bad the rear handle on the s22 smashes ur fingers. 

and third choice, but 1st choice at night, esp after a storm and limbs might have come down on my road, the s22 headlights work the best, and with this new motor, tire, suspension, lowered/forward pedals, easier to control, emergency brake, dismount, maneuver, freemount, etc etc etc. 

hey, i'm just not strong enough down low. i saw johnny go vroom whip the v13 around a gnarly trail, so i know it can be done.

this is what sold me on the v13, esp when he whips it over to lean on the tree. i'm not ashamed to admit, my 69 year old, maybe cancer ravaged hips don't feel up to the task making u-turns in the pasture yet. the s22, np. love my little s22.