KS16X or V11

[Tokumeino]

Hi, I'm a daily commuter, all weather. I mostly ride in dense and semi-dense city (Paris and suburbs). I have learned on a KS16S and I now want to upgrade for a wheel with approx 1500+Wh and a 3" tire.

I was leaning towards the KS16X until I've read all the comments here about bad weather sealing. The V11 wasn't in my short list, at first because as a cyclist, I've always strongly disliked suspension (but I've been told here that despite its suspension, the V11 lets you feel the ground). The RS was on my short list at first but after careful thinking and provided my way of life, the trolley is a dealbreaker.

Besides the 1500+Wh and the 3" tire, my main priorities are (in order) :

 

1. actual (GPS) 40km/h (20mph) even when the battery hits 20-25%, with a decent safety margin to dramatically reduce cut-offs risks.
2. good braking power, especially in emergency situations when you have no time (other vehicles, pedestrians in Paris)
3. convenience
4. good acceleration
5. rain and puddle resistance
6. comfort

I don't care about hardcore offroad and I'm not a speed daemon. I defenitely want a versatile wheel, on the safe side (weather, brakes, control...). I value decent range (Tesla is not enough) but I don't need a massive one.

I know that there is no such thing as a perfect wheel. But provided my usage and my priorities, what would be your advice ? 

[Kryziss]

The V11 seems to tick all your boxes for sure. The only thing that kept me from waiting for it is that the saddle part doesn't seem great at surviving crashes. The 16X has simplicity on its side, and for the rare occasions when I ride under rain, I just put a backpack cover over the wheel, held by velcro so that it stays in place. I never had any issues. For everything else, both wheels really seem to be neck to neck. Both choices are truly great, it's always a question of compromise.

[Tokumeino]

The fragility you mention : is it the saddle plastic things issue, that will be fixed in batch 3, or is it something else, more structural ?

I've read about the V11 beeing very difficult to emergency stop due to the pedals remaining very flat, forbidding to properly lean backwards. Do V11 users confirm ? I would use the wheel in a dense city and emergency braking can prove useful.

 

[johnyz89]

Why not 18 inch wheels like 18XL or MSX ?

[Tokumeino]

No 18XL because I want a 3" tire (so as to ride low pressure while keeping a lower risk of flat). After decades of biking in my city, it turns out that the larger the tires, the better.

And I use my wheel for everything, everywhere, very often with the trolley. After careful evaluation, the way a GW behaves with the trolley (living somehow its own life) makes it much less error forgiving and more "dangerous" in closed spaces such as small shops with fragile goods. I think that I'm clearly not the "target"  of GW, except for the Tesla but too small battery. The Nikola, I find if properly awful (matter of taste) and I won't ride such a thing :-)

Edited November 20, 2020 by Tokumeino

[xiiijojjo]

In that bracket i'd personally wait until i could get my hands on the Tesla v3 1500w or just jump on the Tesla v2 (but you state that is not enough for you) maybe you could talk to eucservice.com about modifying the battery of whatever wheel you end up getting ( if it doesn't come with 1500w+ battery by default)

[CairnsBee]

Love my 16x, take it on 30km+ rides on roads and bike paths for commuting to and from work, take it on mountain bike trails and it takes a beating there, take it on the jumps on bmx tracks and on fire trails through national parks. Never let me down and never run out of battery. Nice fat tyre and with homemade pads can take it up really steep hills and over rocks and tree roots in the rainforest....heaps of fun, super tough and not one regret or shortcoming

Edited November 20, 2020 by CairnsBee

[Tokumeino]

@xiiijojjo A hypothetic Tesla V3 with 1500 (and why not a 3" tire) would be perfect : but isn't it just a better Nikola ;-) ... a Teskola V1 ? Have there been any annoucement (with a date) about a Tesla V3, or is it only personnal speculation ?

@CairnsBee Any attempt in the rain or at least on wet asphalt/large puddles with the KS16X ? As an everyday commuter, I don't choose the weather and I'd prefer to avoid backpack protections.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Tokumeino

[CairnsBee]

Not much rain riding, having rain hit my eyeballs at 25km/hr is an unpleasant experience, and blurry wet glasses is not a good sounding alternative. I do ride through wet mud and puddles, slowly though and do not want to harm the electronics true. There are some good tips on how to seal the 16x, i just havent opened mine yet to check if the original owner added them. Another rider i know near me with a 16x opened his and enhanced the sealing and said it was easy

[CairnsBee]

A bit of rain hasnt ever caused me any issues and neither has shallow puddles, wouldnt want to ride a few thousand dollars throuh a deep puddle anyway. Water on the road also hides holes in the road very well, so you have to be more aware when riding wet, especially on the paint used to mark road lines, can be very slippery when wet.

 

[Tokumeino]

@CairnsBee Of course, riding on a wet surface is very different than riding on a non-slippery road, and implies great care. What I fear is actually a cut-off due to a malfunction caused by water. Anything else, I would consider as my fault and as the inherent dangers of riding on only one wheel.

[mike_bike_kite]

If you don't have to go upstairs or into shops and very rarely crash then I'd go with the V11. The 16X is way more rugged though, I think the new version has better waterproofing than the old version plus you can use an EUC body guard. Another option is the V10F which is fairly good for waterproofing but can also be bought with a cover - it has a 3" wheel, has moderate range and is fairly light compared to the others.

[Tokumeino]

24 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

If you don't have to go upstairs or into shops and very rarely crash then I'd go with the V11. The 16X is way more rugged though, I think the new version has better waterproofing than the old version plus you can use an EUC body guard. Another option is the V10F which is fairly good for waterproofing but can also be bought with a cover - it has a 3" wheel, has moderate range and is fairly light compared to the others.

Spot on comment ! I go a lot into shops with my wheel : it is actually quite important to me. The 16X beeing more rugged (and roll.nz compliant) matters as well : I don't fall often at cruising speed but who knows...  and I'm still in my learning curve (training to go backwards, de-lateralize feet ...) and my wheel still sometimes falls. This leads to another issue, BTW : I cannot find spare parts for the V11 : what if I need to replace something ?

The point is that I ride mostly in a dense city with many uneven streets (but not so many deep potholes) and with many other vehicules/pedestrians, sometimes requiring emergency stops and more often trafic light stops (Paris, France) : not on grass, mudd or gravel paths and not on long empty roads. On paper, the V11 seems undoubtly the best rider, and if you ask typical US youtubers (from California, Colorado or whatever) riding in large empty spaces, then they will all say "go V11, without an hesitation". And I get why. NYC visible youtubers is another story with an obviouly strong local culture, which leads them to praise performance above all. At the end, I'm sure that the V11 is great, but I'm afraid to make a bad decision due a a misusage.

[Tokumeino]

If I had to evaluate each of my criterions separately, based on what I can read on this forum, am I close to the truth if I summarize like that ?

1. Safety power margin at 40km/h (GPS) and 25% battery : V11=A / 16X=B
2. Emergency brake : V11=C / 16X=B
3. Convenience (urban commuter, shops) :  V11=C / 16X=B
4. Acceleration / Torque : V11=B / 16X=A
5. Weather proofing : V11=A / 16X=C
6. Comfort : V11=A / 16X=C
7. DIY repairs : V11=D / 16X=B

Then, I'll have to agregate criterions and balance with price. Note that if I take that and put points (A=4 ... E=1) then both wheel get 27 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Tokumeino

[Sushiroller]

I'm a first-time EUC buyer and I dropped my V11 pre-order for a lightly-used Kingsong 16X because its been out for awhile, seems like a mature product, and appears to survive abuse from learning.

For a future EUC, I'm thinking I'll wait for batch 6 of the V11 or whatever EUC comes around that offers easy tire changes (I'm also a biker). The saddle of the V11 and the trolley handle of the Gotway RS is what made me hesitate to get them. No hurry on my end for the latest and greatest.

[Dreygun]

I'm in the same boat as @rogueone. First time wheeler and dropped my v11 preorder for a 16x. So glad I did. Love this wheel and ride after work every day on average 25 to 35km. I did take it apart to add foam and silicone to internal areas where dust and water could get in (thanks to @buell47's tutorial, (Ithink it was)). Perfect for the city streets with stop and go and manuevering/ torque.

[longjohnsally]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:21 AM, Tokumeino said:

If I had to evaluate each of my criterions separately, based on what I can read on this forum, am I close to the truth if I summarize like that ?

1. Safety power margin at 40km/h (GPS) and 25% battery : V11=A / 16X=B
2. Emergency brake : V11=C / 16X=B
3. Convenience (urban commuter, shops) :  V11=C / 16X=B
4. Acceleration / Torque : V11=B / 16X=A
5. Weather proofing : V11=A / 16X=C
6. Comfort : V11=A / 16X=C
7. DIY repairs : V11=D / 16X=B

Then, I'll have to agregate criterions and balance with price. Note that if I take that and put points (A=4 ... E=1) then both wheel get 27 

I can't honestly compare because I don't have a V11 (just 16x), but I would say some of your ratings for the 16x are a little off in my opinion.  For me at least, I would adjust the following 16x scores....

3. Convenience: 16X=A  (It is hard to beat the 16x in this category.  The trolley handle makes it SO easy to go in and out of stores.  I go everywhere with mine and never think twice...coffee shops, grocery stores, train, bus, work, home, crowds, no crowds, whatever.  Can go anywhere with zero worries.  Don't forget it is also 8 pounds lighter than the V11.  I will likely keep the 16x for the long haul regardless of any other wheel I buy for this reason alone).

5. Weather proofing: 16X=maybe a B? (this is stupid that it has any issues at all in this category, but it is an easy fix with a little foam and some silicone).

6. Comfort: 16x=B (This wheel is so smooth.  The ONLY time I don't feel 10% comfortable is on hard braking from high speed when it is likely to induce at least some wobble.  The fat tire eats up everything easily.  It feels great on-road and off-road.  If you weren't comparing it to a suspension wheel, I would be pushing for you to give it an A!  At speed though, and 18" tire would definitely be more "comfortable."  I guess I would just say this really depends on what you are using it for.)

Good luck in your search!

Edited December 3, 2020 by longjohnsally

[Jonesq]

As someone who just purchased the V11, coming from an 18XL, and having ridden a 16X, DEFINITELY get the V11.

It's $10 more than the 16X but has a way better quality (more expensive) components. It also has suspension and if you look at the difference between the Gotway EX and the Gotway EX-N (non-suspension), the price of adding suspension seems to be significant.

Very few scenarios where buying a 16X would be a better option. The size and weight difference is negligible, even more so with regard to the value of what your getting for the price.

[Crooznfbroozn]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:45 AM, Jonesq said:

As someone who just purchased the V11, coming from an 18XL, and having ridden a 16X, DEFINITELY get the V11.

It's $10 more than the 16X but has a way better quality (more expensive) components. It also has suspension and if you look at the difference between the Gotway EX and the Gotway EX-N (non-suspension), the price of adding suspension seems to be significant.

Very few scenarios where buying a 16X would be a better option. The size and weight difference is negligible, even more so with regard to the value of what your getting for the price.

Ehhhh, I offroad all the time. You'd imagine I'd clamor for a V11... I really wouldn't want to smash it against a tree with all those delicate parts tbh.

As for price I see 200 euro difference, up to 300.

Also wouldn't call 3kg difference negligible for my use case. 

But hey, maybe my use case is the "very few scenarios" 😬 

(Edit: I guess my point is, with suspension I'd think I could go nuts with this wheel and do crazy jumps etc.. but in reality I very much doubt this wheel can handle it and doing repairs looks like a nightmare)

Edited December 5, 2020 by Crooznfbroozn

[Jonesq]

6 hours ago, Crooznfbroozn said:

Ehhhh, I offroad all the time. You'd imagine I'd clamor for a V11... I really wouldn't want to smash it against a tree with all those delicate parts tbh.

As for price I see 200 euro difference, up to 300.

Also wouldn't call 3kg difference negligible for my use case. 

But hey, maybe my use case is the "very few scenarios" 😬 

(Edit: I guess my point is, with suspension I'd think I could go nuts with this wheel and do crazy jumps etc.. but in reality I very much doubt this wheel can handle it and doing repairs looks like a nightmare)

Having suspension makes all the difference doing off road and jumps. The suspension takes edge off the tiny little impacts that your pedal hangers would be absorbing.

So I do think the V11 would handle the impacts better assuming you land correctly and ride it out. I agree that repairs on the V11 are likely going to be more difficult and that the wheel is more prone to damage in cases where the wheel makes impact on a non-tire area.

The higher clearance makes a big difference as well riding off road. I guess the extra 3kg makes more of a difference relative to how much you carry your wheel around. I just don't think the difference between 55lbs and 60lbs is THAT significant, but I could understand that it could make a big difference if you were carrying it upstairs everyday or taking public transportation.

 

[I_Must_Bust]

Ali Express Tesla v2 with the 1500wh battery mod has everything but the 3" tire. I haven't had any issues with mine but I've only done 400km on it so far. Here's a thread with others' experience...

 

[DragonFZ]

I have the 16X for 1 year and 4 months.  Just had my first cut out, trying to catch up to 2 Shermans and 3 V11.

I need to upgrade... can't decide on V11 or Sherman

[DragonFZ]

On 12/5/2020 at 7:25 AM, Jonesq said:

Having suspension makes all the difference doing off road and jumps. The suspension takes edge off the tiny little impacts that your pedal hangers would be absorbing.

So I do think the V11 would handle the impacts better assuming you land correctly and ride it out. I agree that repairs on the V11 are likely going to be more difficult and that the wheel is more prone to damage in cases where the wheel makes impact on a non-tire area.

The higher clearance makes a big difference as well riding off road. I guess the extra 3kg makes more of a difference relative to how much you carry your wheel around. I just don't think the difference between 55lbs and 60lbs is THAT significant, but I could understand that it could make a big difference if you were carrying it upstairs everyday or taking public transportation.

 

This is one of the V11 guys, I was trying to catch up to

[Jonesq]

1 hour ago, DragonFZ said:

I have the 16X for 1 year and 4 months.  Just had my first cut out, trying to catch up to 2 Shermans and 3 V11.

I need to upgrade... can't decide on V11 or Sherman

either will make you very happy

[Prospect]

I'm not sure I understand how the V11 convenience is so low. Is it the size you're talking about or just the weight? Perhaps the added weight will make you more swole over time, not that I personally think the difference is really that significant unless you're having to carry up a lot of stairs frequently.