Inmotion v11 kicks you off (less dangerous)

[Finn Bjerke]

When a low battery situation occurs the V11 kicks you off by suddenly tilting the damn thang in a dangerous way.  A more moderat indicator of low battery would be very nice  I dont like being booted off the wheel in this aggressive manner.  Marty had the same experience:  After the new firmware for android came  October 2020 the Jiu jitsu tilt of the V11 is less aggressive. ANdroid app V 2.1.1. is very good while v2.1.0 will kill your wheel.  I dont know if there is an firmware upgrade option for Iphone just yet. 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Finn Bjerke
better

[gon2fast]

Neutral question - what battery percentage does the tilt back of that degree happen?

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Neutral question - what battery percentage does the tilt back of that degree happen?

At 14% IIRC.

The low battery tilt-back behavior has been changed a lot for the beta firmware I’m running, and it isn’t at all abrupt anymore. I don’t know how it’ll be on the next public firmware though, I just know that they are working on it still.

@Unventor had been told that the new public FW should be out in a few weeks.

[Ádám Szitás]

looks like it just got released, so no more waiting

[Unventor]

They released new version of App today for android to work with new fw of V11. 

New fw is ver 1.2.0. But me being a noob I forgot to take a picture of features and update text. 

[Finn Bjerke]

Booting ppl off like that is pretty dangerous  I find it daft really. 

[Unventor]

16 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Booting ppl off like that is pretty dangerous  I find it daft really. 

They are not GW. They are trying to take into consideration that not all riders understand a wheels limitations. 

Now the way it is done was too hard. Inmotion had taken on board feedback and reworked how it was working. Today they release the result of feedback and selects users beta testing work and feedback. 

I have yet to test the new release. But there is another day tomorrow for that. 

I guess there still will be things to improve. 

[Finn Bjerke]

new firmware seems to adress some of my problems... great. 

[Seba]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

They released new version of App today for android to work with new fw of V11. 

New fw is ver 1.2.0. But me being a noob I forgot to take a picture of features and update text. 

No worry, I did this

[mrelwood]

Yep, the sudden tilt-back is much slower on the 1.2.0 firmware. Still perfectly unnecessary after the first time the rider does it, and still dangerous for those of us who are forced to ride in traffic with cars.

 My long ramble is available here: (See how it offers information without forcing you to suddenly stop what you’re doing... )

 

[Finn Bjerke]

new firmware fucks up my wheel and my mood. Its permanently tilted now.  Inmmotion fuck you.    

Later edit: the day after the 2.1.1. app came fixed the problem. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Finn Bjerke

[Daley1]

 

6 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

new firmware fucks up my wheel and my mood. Its permanentlæy tilted now.  Inmmotion fuck you. 

Straight and to the point .I love it!

[Finn Bjerke]

Oh its a limited BT problem so.. disconnect all BT then upgrade....  pluig and pray.... Dont forget coffee. its good 4u.

 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

new firmware fucks up my wheel and my mood. Its permanentlæy tilted now.  Inmmotion fuck you. 

This type of "constructive feedback" is sure to make people help you. 

Sometimes it might make more people helping you if you consider you are in a global community and not your back yard. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Oh its a limited BT problem so.. disconnect all BT then upgrade....  pluig and pray.... Dont forget coffee. its good 4u.

 

Now when looking at this with perspective maybe there are silimar reason why IM chose to do the tilt back at low battery and go home. 

It is an example of how people blame something because they don't know better but cause is something different. 

This can happen to everyone, that is my point. It happens to me too. Sometimes you (read me too) don't know all information and due to this it is hard to see the bigger picture implications. 

[Unventor]

Now to clear up how this works with fw 1.2.1 Inmotion published these 2 pictures yesterday on telegram. 

It has been debated a lot. And by a lot I really mean a lot. Some people seems to be fighting this go home function as if it is a war. 

My own personal view on this is like this. For some reason Inmotion is sticking to this. They have listened and modified how it works. It might not be perfect, the very least it is different to other wheels. And as a rider it is important you know this and have expireanced it. So when it happens you don't get cought by suprice. I see some benafit to this. As long as I can recall riders have discussed throttling and when and how hard this kicks in. This function limits the need of throttling but it means you need to step of the wheel once you reach 10% battery to activate go home mode. Once added it will shor a hidded portion of battery as Inmotion call it (or rather allow to go into lower volts). So you will then see battery % jump to 30ish% you can now ride but with lower effect (about 2000w limit) until you reach 10% in go home more. At this point you can turn on the wheel but not riding in. This is meant to make it possible to trolley the wheel but still protect the battery. Some I rarely go this deep down into battery % I like this as it throttles me less and I can ride my "normal way" at a longer part of the % of the wheel. But I also get a clear point when to ride more calm and knowing I can't put myself into situations where I need a peak of high watts demand. So from this perspective I kinda like this way of thinking. 

Now I don't like a forced unplanned step down of the wheel. But it partly come to monitor your battery levels. Ride slower you can extend you range to postpone where you get the 10% limit. And this is up to you. In a way this gives a level of freedom to choose how to ride you battery. Like a bat out of hell or in a calm middle speed yet not forcing others to do the same. And this is one of the strong point to this imo. 

. 

So the graphs is how Inmotion explain this. It is not something I made up. And it is not as abrupt as in the earlier fw. But it will force you to stop. It isn't possible to ride at 25degree tilt back. 

[Rawnei]

So basically about 15% of the battery (225ish wh out of the 1500ish wh) is "reserved" and can only be used for the go home mode if I interpret the chart correctly?

Also with battery sag, hitting 10%, stopping a couple of minutes, enabling go home mode the battery gonna be more than 31%, maybe 35-36% in reality?

[Seba]

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So basically about 15% of the battery (225ish wh out of the 1500ish wh) is "reserved" and can only be used for the go home mode if I interpret the chart correctly?

Also with battery sag, hitting 10%, stopping a couple of minutes, enabling go home mode the battery gonna be more than 31%, maybe 35-36% in reality?

V11 doesn't use simple voltage-to-percent calculation, so voltage sag doesn't influence battery level readout. And in fact "go home" mode allows you to use additional 7 % of battery charge. Battery level reading going from 10 % to 30 % just by activating go home mode is something illogical. More, it's also illogical to me that final tiltback is at 10 % and not 0 %. What's the point of showing 10 % when wheel can't be ridden anymore?

Initially I believew that battery level in V11 will be reliable and there is no need to optimize it. However now I see that I have to make V11 battery level calibration ride, gather all required data and create optimized algorithm like I did for King Song wheels.

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

the very least it is different to other wheels. And as a rider it is important you know this and have expireanced it. So when it happens you don't get cought by suprice.

Doesn’t sound like a safety feature to me. At least not for the rider.

 

Quote

This function limits the need of throttling

Not quite. The top speed is throttled to around 40km/h at 68V, and at least the new 1.2.1 fw also throttles the available power to 3000W at 40% battery. Especially this power limit is pretty severe, since I can’t even reach the top speed on level ground no matter how slow I accelerate.

 

Quote

In a way this gives a level of freedom to choose how to ride you battery.

I am confused. How do you not have the same freedom (and more) on every other wheel? None of them decide for you how aggressively you should ride. The V11 is the only wheel that forces me to control and carefully plan my riding style and riding routes when I still have a quarter of the range remaining.

 

24 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So basically about 15% of the battery (225ish wh out of the 1500ish wh) is "reserved" and can only be used for the go home mode if I interpret the chart correctly?

Otherwise yes, but none of the EUCs are usable up to the Wh designation of the battery. So calculations based on that are often meaningless.

 

Quote

Also with battery sag, hitting 10%, stopping a couple of minutes, enabling go home mode the battery gonna be more than 31%, maybe 35-36% in reality?

Yes. But you can’t get out of the Go Home Mode until you connect the wheel to a charger.

 

EDIT: I have been vocal about the stupidity, pointlessness and dangers of the switching the Go Home Mode requires, both publicly and directly to Inmotion. But just to make it clear, the V11 is still the only EUC that exists. All other EUCs are meaningless to me. The other features, feel and ride of the V11 really are that far ahead of all others. But this exact behavior is worse than on any other EUC.

Edited October 22, 2020 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

22 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So basically about 15% of the battery (225ish wh out of the 1500ish wh) is "reserved" and can only be used for the go home mode if I interpret the chart correctly?

Also with battery sag, hitting 10%, stopping a couple of minutes, enabling go home mode the battery gonna be more than 31%, maybe 35-36% in reality?

When I tested this in a beta test (1.1.84) it didn't kick i until I hit 8%. But keep in mind it was a beta test. Final release has been adjusted compared to pictures I posted. 

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

 

Doesn’t sound like a safety feature to me. At least not for the rider.

 

Not quite. The top speed is throttled to around 40km/h at 68V, and at least the new 1.2.1 fw also throttles the available power to 3000W at 40% battery. Especially this power limit is pretty severe, since I can’t even reach the top speed on level ground no matter how slow I accelerate.

 

I am confused. How do you not have the same freedom (and more) on every other wheel? None of them decide for you how aggressively you should ride. The V11 is the only wheel that forces me to control and carefully plan my riding style and riding routes when I still have a quarter of the range remaining.

 

Otherwise yes, but none of the EUCs are usable up to the Wh designation of the battery. So calculations based on that are often meaningless.

 

Yes. But you can’t get out of the Go Home Mode until you connect the wheel to a charger.

I am not fighting a war about this with you. 

I am just saying there are a few ways to look at this. Agree or disagree as you like. 

What I do think that is important is you as a ride experience this yourself. Not just going on opinion from what you read. 

Like this or not it is a function Inmotion seems to stick to. I have chosen to accept this and then look at how to make the most of the situation. 

[Seba]

6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Yes. But you can’t get out of the Go Home Mode until you connect the wheel to a charger.

When I was going downhill for a longer time, it exited "go home" mode just by regeneration.

[mrelwood]

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I am not fighting a war about this with you.

The only fight I have is towards Inmotion changing the behavior, because as we all know they listen to the community very closely. A subject this hot will stay in their internal discussions, and surely they’ll find a better way. Fighting for it benefits all V11 owners.

 My reply to you was to clear some things up. For example, you ride more peacefully, so you didn’t know that the V11 throttles already before the Go Home Mode.

 

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I have chosen to accept this and then look at how to make the most of the situation. 

And I respect that. But I don’t think sugar coating the issue helps anyone.

 

8 minutes ago, Seba said:

When I was going downhill for a longer time, it exited "go home" mode just by regeneration.

Really?! Do you recall how much the voltage or percentage had to rise for it to happen?

[Seba]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Really?! Do you recall how much the voltage or percentage had to rise for it to happen?

Take a look at the end of this tour (battery level chart and the voltage chart):

https://euc.world/tour/589246560151100

First sudden drop in battery level was caused by activating "go home" mode. Because EUC World support for V11 was still under development, it recorded negative battery level (when in go home mode, V11 sends negative battery level value). I was able to reach the top of the hill and started to ride downhill. After some time of downhill ride regeneration caused voltage to rise and when it reached 70 V it went out of "go home" mode. Soon after I found a restaurant where I partially recharged my wheel, but at the end of this tour I had to use "go home" mode to get my destination.

 

[AtlasP]

Personal pet peeve: OP should update thread title to include mention that original topic was addressed by a newer firmware.

--

As for 'go home' mode, prior to wasting the past 2 years obsessively following the forums I would've thought such a feature over-protective. However after reading just how many people have absolutely no idea how their wheels work, I have to side with InMotion. In normal daily usage riders should not be riding with their normal level of aggressiveness down to such battery levels. Without a warning *many* people *will* ignorantly do so, then go online and complain when they experience cut-outs. Conversely an older InMotion company would have simply not allowed usage below such a conservative battery threshhold at all. 'Go Home' mode requires riders to acknowledge when they cross that threshold while still enabling them to ride the battery a bit lower. This seems like a fair compromise given the broader context.

Edited January 7, 2021 by AtlasP