KingSong is bricking wheels on purpose. Dont use their apps.

[null]

According to this post , as well as an other 18XL thread, KingSong have started locking wheels that havent gone through the exclusive importer.

Until we know more; don't update your firmwares and avoid using KingSong apps.

edit: it might have been a bug in spite of the fairly explicit message. Workaround by Seba described lower down.
edit 2: bug my behind, a bunch more wheels are getting locked, this either sabotage or incompetence. Title edit.

Edited August 11, 2020 by null
title

[Chriull]

Just my very personal 2 cent:

That's a fault to punish the customers. Especially as in 

31 minutes ago, null said:

According to this post

the customer had this wheel already for two years.

Also new customers have a good chance of knowing nothing about this, purely Kingsongs problem (aliexpress sales outside of china) and having dumped their money for nothing by buying a KS wheel.

Imho that's the beginning of the end of Ks

I bought my KS wheels officially at a local dealer - because i could afford the money and i prefer to support local economy and want support, just in case.

Had i bought from aliexpress - about this time noone (or at least me) did not know anything of such a locking punishment of customers.

The culprit are these inofficial resellers - not the customers! The customers are KS future!

... i cannot really understand such crazy measures - seems like beating the wrong one in despair, because they cannot control their sales channels.

I really enjoyed my two KS wheels (the second i still do), but i really fear for the future of this company

Hope this measure can be resolved and called "misunderstanding" soon and we will see much more great KS wheels for a long time!

Edited July 1, 2020 by Chriull

[null]

I'm all for supporting local shops and don't mind paying VAT, however KS europe are maintaining absurdly high margins.

In Norway (European living standard) a 18XL cost 2050€ which includes 25% VAT. This was 1900€ for a very long time, covid and oil price pushed it over 2000€.
So we had a wheel which included a margin the seller was satisfied with, local taxes on the higher tier, local stock, and could sell for 1900€, where any French shop (KS Europe) the same costs 2500€ with 20% VAT. No wonder people turn to Ali at 1800€, and even that is an inflated price where EU looses on VAT.

Edited July 1, 2020 by null

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, null said:

No wonder people turn to Ali at 1800€, and even that is an inflated price because they skip the VAT.

Times when one got really good prices at aliexpress are long gone...

Some 10% are imho not worth the trouble...

In the beginning, afair one got wheels for about 1/3 of the official local price.

So aliexpress sellers "cheat" the customers, and KS punishes the people the earn money from

Btw: not too long ago was a report from one of our members in northern europe (?scandinavia?) who bought from a L cal reseller and got a chinese KS wheel...

[FTW]

3 hours ago, null said:

According to this post , as well as an other 18XL thread, KingSong have started locking wheels that havent gone through the exclusive importer.

I'm the one who wrote the second linked post above. I had no idea about region locking until after this happened this morning, and I had very good reason to buy through a Chinese seller since I used to live in China and had money left in a bank account there that I was unable to transfer home without going in person to my bank in China, but I was able to transfer the money electronically to the seller to pay for the wheel (win-win situation in my book). King Song knows the seller (English name is Smart Ride, and they sell on Taobao - where I bought from - and AliExpress, and they are located in Shenzhen where King Song is based) openly advertises that they ship the wheels abroad, and yet KS gladly sells wheels to them and doesn't seem to try and restrict this on their end.

I've already reached out to the seller, but have to wait until it's morning in China to hear back (if they even reply). Aside from that, I know King Song has a Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/ and if I don't hear back from my seller or they don't offer a solution, I'm going to contact them to see what my options are. 

Anyone else run into this problem? In researching it, I'm noticing that people seem to have been posting for a while about KS locking wheels shipped abroad by Chinese sellers (and I'm kicking myself for not seeing these posts earlier), but the first thread linked above is the only post I'm finding aside from my own where somebody's wheel was actually locked. I'm also wondering why my wheel worked fine for almost two months before finally getting locked if this has been going on for a while. This is incredibly frustrating, especially since I just came to Colorado to spend a month with family and was planning to ride nearly every day, but after only two days of great rides my wheel is now locked. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Circuitmage]

lol

[FTW]

Also, I just took a quick look through King Song's official Facebook page and noticed the attached post from June 19th. It doesn't list my seller in the post, nor does it threaten to lock wheels sold by unofficial sellers, but it's the only thing I've seen directly from KS addressing this issue.

Edited July 1, 2020 by FTW
Add image

[Chriull]

8 minutes ago, FTW said:

Anyone else run into this problem?

Here until now what i have seen three reports until now.

9 minutes ago, FTW said:

I'm noticing that people seem to have been posting for a while about KS locking wheels shipped abroad by Chinese sellers 

There were some rumours, especially with firmware updates not possible for these chinese wheels "over here". KS also distributed exclusive reseller contracts that some european resellers showed (in anger). Especially in these who offered no more service as the aliexpress resellers but took more money. Other local resellers established very well by offering great customer service - in combination with the rising prices on aliexpress they made it imho very well.

17 minutes ago, FTW said:

and I'm kicking myself for not seeing these posts earlier

It's not your fault! By what rules should a customer be obliged to do internet research (were he most likely just finds rumors) to get to a legit buying decision!

Imho KS has every right to punish/restrict any aliexpress/tabao reseller - but putting any restriction to any customer paying money just will backfire on them.

I hope with their message to establish contact they will resolve this problems - but still imho this is a wrong attitude against the customer who pays their living!

Sorry for my personal emotions - i cannot understand such behaviour

[Seba]

4 hours ago, null said:

According to this post , as well as an other 18XL thread, KingSong have started locking wheels that havent gone through the exclusive importer.

Until we know more; don't update your firmwares and avoid using KingSong apps.

All my spite KingSong and importer.

As I'm now finishing my big countrywide EUC trip, I was absent on forum last days. Today I found a while to log in to forum and saw this thread. For me this looks very strange and I will investigate this as soon as I'll be back. I hope this is just a bug in factory KS app and not intentional decision to lock certain wheels that was sold outside of their intended sales region.

Anyway, I would like to make a clear statement that EUC World users doesn't have to worry. While some features are not supported in KS wheels that was manufactured for domestic (Chinese) market, EUC World is fully safe to use with these wheels. To make it clear - I won't implement any locking features. Also all firmware updates that are available now are safe.

[Rywokast]

10 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Here until now what i have seen three reports until now.

There were some rumours, especially with firmware updates not possible for these chinese wheels "over here". KS also distributed exclusive reseller contracts that some european resellers showed (in anger). Especially in these who offered no more service as the aliexpress resellers but took more money. Other local resellers established very well by offering great customer service - in combination with the rising prices on aliexpress they made it imho very well.

It's not your fault! By what rules should a customer be obliged to do internet research (were he most likely just finds rumors) to get to a legit buying decision!

Imho KS has every right to punish/restrict any aliexpress/tabao reseller - but putting any restriction to any customer paying money just will backfire on them.

I hope with their message to establish contact they will resolve this problems - but still imho this is a wrong attitude against the customer who pays their living!

Sorry for my personal emotions - i cannot understand such behaviour

i cant imagine that KS themselves really cares at all about this... whoever sells the wheel to you, they made the same amount of money selling it to them.... but i am thinking that they were probably persuaded to sign contracts with european official resellers that would prevent or at least dissuade those in the EU purchasing from aliexpress to skirt taxes and dealer price hikes

[Chriull]

2 minutes ago, Seba said:

. I hope this is just a bug in factory KS app and not intentional decision to lock certain wheels that was sold outside of their intended sales region.

Let's hope so!

1 minute ago, Rywokast said:

i cant imagine that KS themselves really cares at all about this... whoever sells the wheel to you, they made the same amount of money selling it to them.... but i am thinking that they were probably persuaded to sign contracts with european official resellers that would prevent or at least dissuade those in the EU purchasing from aliexpress to skirt taxes and dealer price hikes

Imho those chinese resellers take advantage of the price difference. If they cannot punish these resellers as they make their main sales in china,too they decided on putting the burden on the customers to fulfill their sales contracts with our local resellers

As written above this is just my personal 2 cents and just "my rumour".

Let's hope that @Seba's opinion is right and it is just a bug in the app!

[FullTilt]

I remember a week or so ago a member here mentioned he got a good deal on an S18 pre-order from chicway.shop...

[Chriull]

6 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Let's hope that @Seba's opinion is right and it is just a bug in the app!

It's just some reports here till now, but within some very short duration!

Maybe @Jack King Song can clarify this? And my sincere apologies, if i personally spread some false thougts/rumours!

[Ach-Herr-Jeh]

Hi everyone
does this only affect the KS app or are third-party apps also affected?
example ios darknessbot
thank you for the information

[FTW]

@Seba SAVED THE DAY! He posted the below instructions on the thread I started about my 18XL getting locked this morning, and I was able to unlock my wheel using the serial number of the wheel. To me this suggests that KS is NOT the one locking the wheels, but that there may be some glitch (that Seba seems to have dealt with before?) with KS wheels where they can lock themselves outside the app. Whatever the cause, I'm just happy my wheel is unlocked again, as I was not looking forward to a lengthy argument with my Taobao seller and/or King Song.

Seba's Instructions (using EUC World app)

1. Use EUC World app to connect with your wheel.
2. Open settings and select "Wheel settings".
3. Tap on "Password".
4. Select "Clear password" and enter your EUC serial number as a password.
5. Tap OK.

My Instructions (using DarknessBot app, and based off my personal experience using Seba's advice above)

1. Use DarknessBot app to connect with your wheel
2. A window will appear after connecting that says "The device requires pin code"
3. Enter the serial number of your wheel in this window
4. The app should now connect to the wheel, but the gyros will not be enabled
5. Go to the 'Lock' function and unlock the wheel
6. The gyros should now be enabled and you should be good to go!

Based off my experience doing this with the DarknessBot app, I'm guessing EUC World users may have to unlock their wheels using the lock function in EUC World if the gyros don't automatically enable after following Seba's instructions above.

Thanks again Seba for solving this problem!!!

[Chriull]

9 minutes ago, Ach-Herr-Jeh said:

Hi everyone
does this only affect the KS app or are third-party apps also affected?
example ios darknessbot
thank you for the information

I can't destify anything for darknessbot, but it seems to be "just" a KS app issue. @Seba stated that no locking will happen with euc world.

@Ilya Shkolnik could tell in regard to darknessbot

 

[Chriull]

7 minutes ago, FTW said:

To me this suggests that KS is NOT the one locking the wheels, but that there may be some glitch

Great news! I start to feel ashamed for my personal opinions i posted here - happened most probably in because of such rumours posted before. That's no search for an excuse, but (hopefully) some explanation.

[FTW]

17 minutes ago, Ach-Herr-Jeh said:

Hi everyone
does this only affect the KS app or are third-party apps also affected?
example ios darknessbot
thank you for the information

After unlocking my wheel using the instructions from Seba I just posted above, I reconnected to the KS app several times and so far it's not re-locked the wheel. Again, I think this might have been some sort of weird glitch where the wheel somehow gets locked when not connected to an app, especially since there are only a few of us who've actually run into this problem (and if KS was locking wheels of people who bought direct from China, there would be a LOT more people running into this problem right now).

It also just doesn't seem logical for KS to lock wheels not bought through official channels, as it's the suppliers who should be punished (and KS could easily stop selling their wheels to them if they wanted to!) and not the end users. I'm curious where these rumors of KS doing the locking started from (maybe an official reseller who wanted to discourage people from buying direct from China??), and I really think these rumors shouldn't be perpetuated here on the forums unless somebody has solid proof that KS is actually doing this. I'm all for supporting local resellers, but some of us have very valid reasons for ordering direct from China beyond just saving money (though I will admit that is an added bonus!).

[FTW]

16 minutes ago, Chriull said:

I can't destify anything for darknessbot, but it seems to be "just" a KS app issue. @Seba stated that no locking will happen with euc world.

@Ilya Shkolnik could tell in regard to darknessbot

 

Just to add a little more clarification, my 18XL was locked out of the KS app AND DarknessBot app (and I didn't have access to an Android phone or I would have tested it with EUC World also). I first encountered the problem this morning BEFORE I connected to ANY app, as my gyros never enabled after turning my wheel on (i.e. it would power on, but it was "limp"). That's when I tried opening the KS app and immediately got the error message "The vehicle has been locked, whether to contact customer service?" right when the app opened up, and then as soon as I closed the error message the wheel would power off.

I then tried connecting with the DarknessBot app, and it would pop up an error message window that says "The device requires pin code" (and this is where you should enter your serial number to unlock the wheel), and if I canceled out of it I could access the app, but no information would show up for the wheel, and I couldn't change any settings for the wheel. I posted screen grabs of these messages along with an explanation at the below thread:

 

[null]

I’m glad if this is just a bug.

I don’t know what other function « this wheel has been locked, contact service » message would be for though. Especially that all reported wheels where unofficial import.

As for rumoring there where three cases within a few hours, with a fairly explicit message, I preferred posting a warning rather than people ending up with expensive paperweights. I also mentioned « until we know more ».

KS have been toying with region locking and activation for years, as well as ranting about Ali sellers, of course one expect them to enforce what they have been developing.

Edited July 1, 2020 by null

[travsformation]

BTW, Master @Seba, how is the expedition going? Ony 5 days left right? Enjoy the last few days of your epic journey!!! 

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

Due to updated backend systems, it has caused some users wheels to be locked again. We apologize for any inconvenience. 

Please send me your serial number and I can assist you.

[FTW]

14 hours ago, null said:

As for rumoring there where three cases within a few hours, with a fairly explicit message, I preferred posting a warning rather than people ending up with expensive paperweights. I also mentioned « until we know more ».

Sorry if it sounded like I was pointing the finger at you Null, as that was definitely not the case (I was very happy that you started this thread!). It just surprised me when doing extensive research here on the forum after my wheel got locked this morning to find so many people referring to KS’s habit of locking wheels bought direct from China without finding anyone posting about having actually encountered this problem (and there may well have been some cases before today, I’m just saying I saw a lot of rumors and no actual proof in the threads I found). As we found out from Jack King Song’s post above, it was KS responsible for this problem, but it was after all a “glitch”... or at least those of us who purchased our wheels direct from China better hope it was a glitch! 😁

Edited July 2, 2020 by FTW

[Seba]

7 hours ago, travsformation said:

BTW, Master @Seba, how is the expedition going? Ony 5 days left right? Enjoy the last few days of your epic journey!!! 

So far, I've ridden 1639 kilometres in 12 days. In the first days the weather was terrible - at that time it was raining heavily in the south of Poland and there were heavy thunderstorms. The roads were washed up by rivers and streams pouring out of the riverbed. In some places it was difficult to pass because of avalanches of mud that came down from the hills. Now it is much better, I have only three days left to finish the whole expedition. In a moment I am packing up and going further - today another 150 kilometers to go

BTW The new tour recording mechanism works perfectly! After my return I will prepare another EUC World update.

[.....]

5 minutes ago, Seba said:

So far, I've ridden 1639 kilometres in 12 days. In the first days the weather was terrible - at that time it was raining heavily in the south of Poland and there were heavy thunderstorms. The roads were washed up by rivers and streams pouring out of the riverbed. In some places it was difficult to pass because of avalanches of mud that came down from the hills. Now it is much better, I have only three days left to finish the whole expedition. In a moment I am packing up and going further - today another 150 kilometers to go

BTW The new tour recording mechanism works perfectly! After my return I will prepare another EUC World update.

You the man Seba! Try to enjoy the conquest for sure. Im looking forward to a story/picture or two. I'd imagine something of interest has and will happen for the trip. Be safe, eat your vitamin C and grab a Banana!

Edited July 2, 2020 by ShanesPlanet