Advice on first EUC for a larger person

[Gwila]

Hi All,
I am looking to buy my first EUC and was hoping to get some advice on what to get.
I am:
Height: 6’1” (186cm) 
Age: 37yo 
Loaded weight: ~253lb (115kg) 

I live in Melbourne Australia, so my options for wheels is limited. I have not ridden before, so want something that can handle a newb. 
I’ll be primarily commuting with it mostly on bike paths, and would like something that could do 20 miles/32km+ on a single charge comfortably.

So far, my short list is:
Gotway Tesla (v2) (Currently on sale for AUD$1,990)
King Song 18L (Currently on sale for AUD$2,000)
Inmotion V10F (Current price AUD$2,425)

Newb questions:
Am I a fool for thinking that 20mph (32kmh) cruising speed is slow?
Am I too close to the max weight on the Tesla and V10F?  I see ewheels has some higher weight figures for these units. Or would I be better off going for the 18L which has a 325lb (150kg) weight rating?
Should I avoid buying from ebay since warranties look a bit sketchy?

Thanks heaps for your help!
 

[MexicanBatman]

Dude where were you a few weeks ago I just sold my V10F

 

that said don’t buy an Inmotion if you will ride it fast

 

its a wheel made for skinny people

 

its fast and powerful and a very good machine, but it will tell you to get off quite a lot

 

you sir need a Gotway

 

forget weight ratings, I was 155kg when I first got a ninebot one E+ and the wheel handled it fine

 

where are you planning to ride? How far how fast? Any previous experience?

 

i recommend https://e-riderz.com.au I’ve bought 2 wheels from them and maybe a 3rd soon enough

 

im in the northern suburbs and I’m happy for you to come and have a look at my MSX

 

there is no one wheel that’s best for everything, but the MSX is a beast

 

 

[Marty Backe]

Once you are actually riding at 20mph, trust me, it will feel very fast. Not super-fast, but fast 

At your weight (is that naked or geared up?) the wheels you've listed will be marginal at the speeds that you want to travel.

I seriously recommend that you save a bit more so that you can afford to buy a 1600wh wheel, minimum. It's all about safety (and range). Lightweight guys can easily get by with 1000wh wheels, but not someone of your stature, particularly if you want to travel 20+ miles at a fast pace.

Any of the 1600wh wheels currently available will work for you. So you can safely go with your gut as to which wheel you would like.

If at all possible buy from a dealer. But if you don't have that option than buy from a location with the best reputation "points".

P.s. I have personally witnessed someone who probably is approaching 300-pounds, ride some respectable trails on the KS16S. So all modern wheels can handle the weight. But you want lots of reserve power in the tank (battery) for safety.

[Fuerte]

I am 6’3” and 260, GotWay MSX works great for me!

[atdlzpae]

You have two choices: KS18XL or MSX.
I have MSX 84V and I'm happy, though I ride rather slowly (almost never > 30km/h).
I don't think that 16 inches are a good idea for a heavy person. My MSX is much more comfortable than my previous KS16S.

6'4'' and 125kg

Edited December 23, 2019 by atdlzpae

[mrelwood]

Gotways will feel more solid due to their riding mode algorithms, which might be something your weight would learn to prefer later on. Not that the 18(X)L would soften out due to your weight, it’s just how the manufacturer prefers to make the wheels feel. I’m at around 100kg geared up, and the MSX makes me feel like a featherweight!

The 18XL rides nicely though, and is usually the first recommendation. But for me the riding feel supports peaceful riding, whereas the MSX feels like it wouldn’t blink an eye even under harsh abuse.

But a big difference is between the 16” and 18” tire sizes. The Tesla would be a lot peppier and a lot less stable compared to the 18L. A Tesla would still sure be fun an useful, but if you plan to use it for daily commuting or other longer rides, it will likely be a bit tiresome. 18” (or 16x3.0=”17”) wheels are the ones for travel, for pretty much all weights and heights. (Unless perhaps if riding on perfectly smooth surfaces.)

[erk1024]

35 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

You have two choices: KS18XL or MSX.
I have MSX 84V and I'm happy, though I ride rather slowly (almost never > 30km/h).
I don't think that 16 inches are a good idea for a heavy person. My MSX is much more comfortable than my previous KS16S.

6'4'' and 125kg

The 100V Nikola is also a good choice! I'm really happy with mine, and it's a great all around wheel. (I'm 6' and 265lbs).

[atdlzpae]

@erk1024 Yep. I wonder how much of my love of MSX is due to 18' and how much is due to 3' tire.

 

@Gwila Absolutely nothing beats MSX with C-186 tire for off-road.

Edited December 23, 2019 by atdlzpae

[erk1024]

8 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Yep. I wonder how much of my love of MSX is due to 18' and how much is due to 3' tire.

The comfort level on the Nikola is surprisingly good even with the tire pressure up at 50psi. The tire they chose just has a lot of flex to it. It's as comfortable as the Monster and it's stock tire. I've also done quite a bit of off-road, and it's great at that. The extra nimbleness and torque of the Nikola is a big help as well. The only downside for doing offroad on the Nikola is the shell is not very durable. 

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, erk1024 said:

The comfort level on the Nikola is surprisingly good even with the tire pressure up at 50psi. The tire they chose just has a lot of flex to it. It's as comfortable as the Monster and it's stock tire. I've also done quite a bit of off-road, and it's great at that. The extra nimbleness and torque of the Nikola is a big help as well. The only downside for doing offroad on the Nikola is the shell is not very durable. 

If you ever ride the KS16X, with the same size tire, you'll be stunned at the difference. KingSong went with a much stiffer tire. The net effect is that the Nikola actually rides like it has a wider tire because it compresses more causing more rubber to contact the ground. Another reason why I think the Nikola is a better riding wheel than the 16X.

[Gwila]

Hi All,

Thanks for the responses!

@Trevor Phillips I live in the far north (Out near Craigieburn for now) so was planning to drive to somewhere like Essendon and do the commute into the city initially along the Citylink bikepath - Seems like a good path and no cars to get hit by  

The ride would be about 10km each way, and i'm hoping i'll be able to charge it once at work, but don't want to count on it - Not sure how these will go sitting under my desk in the office

And no experience - closes thing (Which is apparently far from this) is motorbikes / pushbikes.

Interesting to see so many people refer to the MSX. 

@Marty Backe

That weight was fully clothed and a backpack.

 

Hmmm the MSX 1600Wh/84v is on sale at the moment for AUD$2,690. 

@Trevor Phillips have you or anyone you know of had any problems with policy in Melbourne? 

 

 

 

[Gwila]

Typo in last post: Police, not Policy.

[MexicanBatman]

Yes there’s a guy on YouTube I’ve seen his videos he said he got done by the HWP $500

 

ive been lucky, but I only ride off-road and bike paths

 

about that path

 

the Moonee Ponds creek trail

 

ive ridden them all in the north

 

its not beginner level, the uneven surface not noticeable on a bike but noticeable very much so on an euc will have you pooping your pants at 25-30km/h in parts until you become expert level and that takes years to achieve

honestly it’s a big investment I’d try a starter wheel first and if you think it’s for you then go all out, there’s a dude on here selling a Z10 and he’s in northcote

 

 I’d buy it myself but I’m poor LOL

 

im happy to give you the rundown on my thoughts, it’s awesome fun I only ride mine for recreational purposes but I ride all the trails and know all the bike paths from the Moonee Ponds creek trail which I ride from the city to the Airport, to the Merri Creek Darebin Creek and Ring Road trails and Yarra trail and almost everything in between

 

i usually ride mine from Preston down the Darebin Creek trail to the ring road path then Moone Ponds creek trail to the Coolaroo Starbucks for a ice latte then back home, today I’m just about to do the same but the other way out to Diamond Creek and then back home

 

the Moonee ponds creek trail is great fun but the surface like I mentioned is challenging around Strathmore

 

go for something with a 3” Tyre and range

 

youll need more range than you think and any claimed range is in reality half at best of what is claimed, at 80kg I was getting 47km on my V10F, I can push my Gotway MSX to 80km when I’m lucky

 

sound like miles but enough is never enough, range anxiety is real

 

ive not ridden a KS16X but it seems like something to really take a good look at

 

the reason I mention range, you say 10km

 

but once you get hooked if you do, you’ll ride it much much further

 

anyway I take my dog out to Coolaroo Dog Park quite often if you want to take a look at the MSX I’m happy to give you some tips, I’ve also got an Mten3 that’s super easy to ride (totally not practical for your use though) that you can have a try on

 

m.me/mex.bhat
 

that’s my FB messenger link

 

any info you need you can get me on that

[RockyTop]

Keep in mind most smaller people just don’t understand and will tell you that V8 and V10 will work just fine. For larger people. I would suggest an 18”- 19”wheel. The Nicola more or less has a wide 17” tire ( good enough) 

Best:  MSX , 18XL, Nicola 

Works: KS16s  not ideal but strong. 

Avoid: V10 , V10F, 16X  over heat or cut out. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

Keep in mind most smaller people just don’t understand and will tell you that V8 and V10 will work just fine. For larger people. I would suggest an 18”- 19”wheel. The Nicola more or less has a wide 17” tire ( good enough) 

Best:  MSX , 18XL, Nicola 

Works: KS16s  not ideal but strong. 

Avoid: V10 , V10F, 16X  over heat or cut out. 

Wow, really have to disagree with you on the 16X. That seems like from left field 

Of course it's your opinion and all opinions are valid as such.

[RockyTop]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

Wow, really have to disagree with you on the 16X. That seems like from left field 

Of course it's your opinion and all opinions are valid as such.

Way too many cut outs at 27MPH with normal sized people. No way I am getting on one. They are known to have under speed cut outs. The problem can only get worse with some at 260 pounds. What speed would it be safe at? Maybe 20 MPH. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, RockyTop said:

Way too many cut outs at 27MPH with normal sized people. No way I am getting on one. They are known to have under speed cut outs. The problem can only get worse with some at 260 pounds. What speed would it be safe at? Maybe 20 MPH. 

Gotway is the king of cutouts. A few edge cases with KingSong is nothing.

I'll still recommend the 16X to anyone who asks my opinion.

[RockyTop]

42 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway is the king of cutouts. A few edge cases with KingSong is nothing.

I'll still recommend the 16X to anyone who asks my opinion.

That is why I said that smaller people are not going to understand. 

We did the math on the 16X. It does not work. 

I love the 16s and 18XL and they are plenty strong but I can over power them at will. It is not easy but I can. I cannot do that to a MSX or even the MSv3+. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by RockyTop

[RockyTop]

To be more clear I am heavy with a normal BMI. 100kg. 6’3  ( water displacement BMI of 23)

GotWay -Most of my maintenance is on the pedals. I broke several sets before making my own. Now I am bending hangers. The pedals and hangers on the KS16S and 18XL are FAR superior. (16X ? ) 

KingSong XL is great. Plenty strong in all ways for me. However, the wonderful intuitive software that make the wheel sporty gives me the ability to over power it at any speed. If I ride an XL as if it were a MSX I can over power the wheel. You do not need to push nearly as hard on the XL to get it to do the same thing. I think that the software is great, just not for me. 

I believe that the 16X is likely the best wheel on the market for a sub 210 pound rider that stays under 25MPH. With the current motor they need to increase the voltage to 100 volts or wind the motor with more resistance. The EMF balance is too close to top speed. 

My perfect Wheel would be the 18XL with MSX wheel tire and control board. 

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

To be more clear I am heavy with a normal BMI. 100kg. 6’3  ( water displacement BMI of 23)

GotWay -Most of my maintenance is on the pedals. I broke several sets before making my own. Now I am bending hangers. The pedals and hangers on the KS16S and 18XL are FAR superior. (16X ? ) 

KingSong XL is great. Plenty strong in all ways for me. However, the wonderful intuitive software that make the wheel sporty gives me the ability to over power it at any speed. If I ride an XL as if it were a MSX I can over power the wheel. You do not need to push nearly as hard on the XL to get it to do the same thing. I think that the software is great, just not for me. 

I believe that the 16X is likely the best wheel on the market for a sub 210 pound rider that stays under 25MPH. With the current motor they need to increase the voltage to 100 volts or wind the motor with more resistance. The EMF balance is too close to top speed. 

My perfect Wheel would be the 18XL with MSX wheel tire and control board. 

 

Nice explanation  

The disadvantage of being a lightweight is that I can't experience the joys of overpowering a KingSong wheel 

[alcatraz]

You need wide tires for 115kg. 3+inch ftw.

Nikola/16x/msx/z10.

Forget the others unless you want to risk bending a rim when you bottom out for the first time.

Second most important, power! Power doesn't only equal speed, but the ability to keep you upright in complicated situations like descending/ascending/braking/acceleration/speed bumps. 115kg will stress the wheel beyond what it was tested for so stay on the safe side here. Reading reviews should be done with the test riders weight in mind. Words like nimble/powerful mean nothing to a 115kg rider if they were uttered by a 60kg rider.

Set your maximum speed a good chunk below the wheels rated maximum, to give you a safety margin.

Edited December 24, 2019 by alcatraz

[Gwila]

@Trevor Phillips Thanks for the offer and advice.

I was planning on starting from Kensington since the path is a heaps better from there. And starting further out with experience

The upfield bike path looked like a nice express way to head north from the city.

 

The Z10 looks like it may be sold, and at $1900, i would rather just pickup new.

 

The MSX seems like the best option from what i have read now that i know a bit more about whats needed for my size.

Its cheaper than the others, now lets see if i can get it past the wife  Selling her on it saving money from train fairs isn't going to be so easy on that one!

 

Thanks everyone else for the help!

 

[Mono]

On 12/23/2019 at 3:05 AM, Gwila said:

Am I a fool for thinking that 20mph (32kmh) cruising speed is slow?

That depends on your risk aversion. Due to the self-balancing nature of EUCs, we lose much more commonly control than cyclists do, mainly because there is no wheel in front of us that can mechanically prevent falling forward. At low speed that is most often inconsequential (AKA running off or stumbling). Losing control at speeds above 15mph means going down on the ground with a non-negligible likelihood for all kind of injuries, most often to the upper extremities or shoulders. It's a choice to make.

__
There are two fundamentally different EUCing cultures populating this globe. One for which 40km/h is not exactly speeding and the other for which surpassing 25km/h is simply off limits. It's always good to keep this in mind  42km/h has 3 times the kinetic energy of 24km/h.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Mono

[mrelwood]

 

On 12/23/2019 at 4:05 AM, Gwila said:

Am I a fool for thinking that 20mph (32kmh) cruising speed is slow?

Further pondering on aspects that the @Mono’s great points above reminded me of:

All of us who started riding 3 or more years ago were limited to speeds below 20mph. Despite nowadays riding somewhat aggressively and well past 40km/h every single time, I was perfectly happy with my first wheel’s speed limit of 25km/h for the best part of my first year. Why is that?

- The soft pedal behaviour made it obvious and clear that the wheel could not handle any more speed, and that it was already at the very limits.

- I hadn’t had the possibility to go faster, so I didn’t know to miss it.

- Not (many) Youtube videos of riders showing off how fast and aggressively they have the balls to accelerate and ride. There was EUC Extreme, but he had a heavily customized EUC and full motocross gear for protection. What we (unfortunately) see now is roughly similiar risk levels without any rider protection. It gives a very different message to the viewer for what is ”standard”.

Any wheel can bring a lot of joy and use for a rider of any weight. But the expectations must be scaled accordingly, which is the hard part. If a 115kg rider rides a V8 very peacefully and stays well below the wheel’s top speed, he might very well have the time of his life for months.

I’m not saying it would be smart though since we now have so much better options available.

[Gwila]

Very good points @mrelwood & @Mono

I was planning on speed limiting low (10-15kmh) for a while and slowly increasing it. 
I just want the option in future to up the speed when I increase my commute distance without needing to buy a new wheel. 

I still have motorcycle protection gear that I'm planning on using with when I get started.