Ooh! No it's the police 👮

[stephen]

So out today on my 16x when a police 👮 officer walking down the road and waved me down 😬 , he said you do know they are illegal ? I said well when i bought it it was one of them grey areas but I've had it a year now and cost me £2000, but yes officer i won't lie to you i do know that now, i said it's ridiculous for both me and you not knowing proper classification and i can't even get insurance and that's what you get done for , he said, yes i know and i have seen you loads and it looks fun but becarefull cause other officers might pull you but for me your doing no harm and i agree law is stupid and needs sorting .. Are they hard to ride ect ,, then just chatting over it ,,, i appreciate how you look at it and thx officer  i got to go😁😊 

👍👍 

[Guest PogArt Artur]

8 minutes ago, stephen said:

So out today on my 16x when a police 👮 officer walking down the road and waved me down 😬 , he said you do know they are illegal ? I said well when i bought it it was one of them grey areas but I've had it a year now and cost me £2000, but yes officer i won't lie to you i do know that now, i said it's ridiculous for both me and you not knowing proper classification and i can't even get insurance and that's what you get done for , he said, yes i know and i have seen you loads and it looks fun but becarefull cause other officers might pull you but for me your doing no harm and i agree law is stupid and needs sorting .. Are they hard to ride ect ,, then just chatting over it ,,, i appreciate how you look at it and thx officer  i got to go😁😊 

👍👍 

That's a nice conversation 😋

I've never been stopped by police yet, but I can imagine it's not comfy feeling at all, even though it was friendly chat.

Brave man, you did well 🙂

[stephen]

2 hours ago, PogArt Artur said:

That's a nice conversation 😋

I've never been stopped by police yet, but I can imagine it's not comfy feeling at all, even though it was friendly chat.

Brave man, you did well 🙂

He was ok tbh 

Just hope it stays that way  .i like my wheel 😁

[Nic]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

He was ok tbh 

Just hope it stays that way  .i like my wheel 😁

Did you get this on video?

[stephen]

19 minutes ago, Nic said:

Did you get this on video?

I wasn't filming at the time if i had  I'd of left the camera going and told him it was my control stick 😂😂

[Guest PogArt Artur]

2 hours ago, stephen said:

.i like my wheel 😁

I bet you do!

You're recording so many videos on it!

Enjoy (I know you do) 😁😁😁

[Retrovertigo]

It's nice to know there are police out there, that despite knowing the actual legalities, can show some common sense and not be vindictive.

[Nic]

I expect the police will be riding EUCs in the near future ... they can cover a larger area on their beat and respond to events much faster.

[stephen]

7 minutes ago, Nic said:

I expect the police will be riding EUCs in the near future ... they can cover a larger area on their beat and respond to events much faster.

Exactly what i was thinking when i seen him walking lol

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

17 minutes ago, Nic said:

I expect the police will be riding EUCs in the near future ... they can cover a larger area on their beat and respond to events much faster.

Before that happens, it will be more controlled and every EUC that is illegally on the road will be confiscated.

If they have enough together they will at least be legalised for the police and they have enough free EUCs in stock.  

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, Retrovertigo said:

It's nice to know there are police out there, that despite knowing the actual legalities, can show some common sense and not be vindictive.

Very true, the problem is that it's very difficult for an officer to 'do nothing' with an offender if they are in public view. Theres always some grass who will bleat back to the complaints dept 'yeah the guy was riding an illegal vehicle and the copper did nothing'. No doubt there will also be photos/video of the encounter as well, given that it seems the public cannot witness any kind of police interaction without frantically whipping their phones out.

Many a time a copper would much rather use their discretion and common sense but these days that has been beaten out of them cos of the moany public and the incredible ease with which to make a complaint. Unfortunately, it's no longer the case that the public will simply leave a cop to deal with the matter as they see fit.

If theres no-one else around though, your chances of just having a chat (like Stephen did) is far higher

 

[Grandpa 1947]

So, I was out riding my electric unicycle again today. I got stopped for the THIRD time by the Oklahoma City police and was told very clearly that no motorized vehicles are allowed on the new bike trails. It is very disheartening to me. I was told I can ride on any city street. The policeman was very nice but very emphatic. They had run my concerns by the city attorney (after my two previous stops and discussions with them) and the police are allowed to ticket us for being on the bike trails. He did not give me a ticket or a warning. This all but makes my electric unicycle useless to me as I will not ride on city streets. He told me this pertains to all bike paths in the city. This new bike trail is 14 miles long, paved with curbing, and is about fifteen feet wide. I am 71 years old and have ridden 1,200 miles on the paths since August of this year. What a shame. I am much more likely to hurt myself than to hurt someone else.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

@Grandpa 1947 Maybe try contacting your local 6:00 news channels to see if they are interested in doing a short piece on you and your bike path struggles.  I’m sure you would get a lot of public sympathy.  There was a lady up here that got a ticket for having a cell phone sitting in her cupholder charging.  A lawyer was going to do some pro bono work for her, but I think the public outcry was enough to make the police drop the charges.

Considering the whole go green movement, hopefully things will go viral.  Do you have any disabilities, illnesses or served in the army/navy/air corps?  Any volunteer work or humanitarian activites?  Imagine the headlines - “Elderly retired WWII hero banned from riding his eco-friendly electric unicycle to his volunteer job at the local Christian hospice.”    News at 6.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/cops-cancel-distracted-driving-ticket-issued-to-71-year-old-woman-with-phone-in-cupholder

Edited October 7, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[EkW]

Here in Tucson all motorized vehicles are barred from the segregated path and plenty of signs inform us of that fact. At least with my e-bike I can turn the assist off and since it is pedal assist it takes a bit of effort to notice that it is electric. No such luck with an EUC or a scooter. I stay away from the heavily trafficked sections, even on my regular bike. Zipping around all of the walkers and runners and cyclists would be very likely to draw scorn and derision.

Whilst riding a regular bike I have argued with nasty 2-stroke motor powered cycle operators about keeping off of the path( even faced down a car trying to take a short cut once. Driver didn't run me over or shoot me).  E-bikes can at least be stealthy, especially if the speed is kept down, it is being pedaled, and it looks close to a normal bike. It is hard not to notice a gasoline engine on a bike/pedestrian path or to otice tnat a scooter or EUC is not human powered. I doubt that anyone has complained about the guys in their motorized wheelchairs.

As in many other places the path is often the safest way to reach one's destination so one must trade the risk of tickets/warnings against playing in traffic. I'd rather risk getting stopped than getting crushed or smashed by a car.

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, EkW said:

I doubt that anyone has complained about the guys in their motorized wheelchairs.

In Finland motorized wheelchairs and self-balancing vehicles are not classified as motor vehicles but motor assisted vehicles or Personal Light Electric Vehicles (PLEV), which made EUCs legal on cycleways by the PLEV classifications in 2016.

I could be completely wrong but I thought similiar laws apply in the US as well, just that coppers just don’t know the classifications properly. Not sure how different your PLEV classifications are though.

[Retrovertigo]

It infuriates me (at least here in the U.K) that they keep banging on and on about not taking cars into city centres, and to use other means of transport, but won't allow the transport that has the third least impact on the environment after walking and cycling. I think it makes them complete hypocrites. 

[Planemo]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

In Finland motorized wheelchairs and self-balancing vehicles are not classified as motor vehicles but motor assisted vehicles or Personal Light Electric Vehicles (PLEV), which made EUCs legal on cycleways by the PLEV classifications in 2016.

This is exactly what we need in the UK. A major rethink on PLEV's. I was thinking about trying to compile a list of countries/cities where PLEV's are allowed with a view to providing this to an official to support our case in the UK. The more that other places are OK with PLEV's, the more chance we have of copying them. In fact I might start a thread just for this purpose.

 

[mrelwood]

 

Just now, Planemo said:

The more that other places are OK with PLEV's, the more chance we have of copying them. In fact I might start a thread just for this purpose.

There is one already! Sorry that I don’t remember the title, but it might’ve had the word ”legality” or ”status” in it.

[Planemo]

7 hours ago, Grandpa 1947 said:

I was told I can ride on any city street.

I do empathise with your situation, but at least you still have the option of riding legally, despite the risks that you would suffer riding on the streets. I think Hunka's suggestions are very good though. If you can use an angle to support the use of your EUC it would give some excellent leverage.

In the UK, EUC's are illegal everywhere. The only exception is of course private land. Not many of us have 1000's of acres to ride around in so it really comes down to any location where the land owner is happy with it. As you might suspect, this is very rare indeed. Oddly, and to my great surprise, it turns out that the land in and around the Olympic Park Stadium in London (Stratford) is privately owned and it has been confirmed that the owners are OK with PLEV's. Lets hope everyone behaves themselves and it lasts.

[Planemo]

6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

There is one already! Sorry that I don’t remember the title, but it might’ve had the word ”legality” or ”status” in it.

OK cool, thanks. I will try to find it. If I can get the exact legal wording for the countries where they are allowed that would be good too.

[Nic]

5 hours ago, Planemo said:

This is exactly what we need in the UK. A major rethink on PLEV's. I was thinking about trying to compile a list of countries/cities where PLEV's are allowed with a view to providing this to an official to support our case in the UK. The more that other places are OK with PLEV's, the more chance we have of copying them. In fact I might start a thread just for this purpose.

 

I already done this (and more) last year 2018 ... there was a review in February 2019 and there is supposedly some kind of outcome to be published this year, but I will hold my breath on that. Too many ill-informed people wanting silly restrictions on PLEVs, such as 15mph speed limit and 250w max power because they don't understand how this technology works and so want to render it useless by restricting specs to be similar to ebikes. You can google 'future of mobility grand challenge' to find out more. My feeling is they will screw it up just as in other countries where clueless people make rules for things for which they have no experience or understanding. Safety is the primary concern, but all modes of transport, even walking, have casualties ... its unavoidable.

[Nic]

Here's the response I received from the DfT back in October 2018...

Quote

Dear XXXXXXXXXXX
RE: Powered Transporters UK Law

Thank you for your emails sent on 3rd and 4th September 2018 regarding the law around powered transporters. Thank you also for your email sent on 14th October to the Secretary of State, Chris Grayling, who has asked me to respond on his behalf.

First, I would like to express my sincere apologies for the delay you have experienced in receiving a response to your original correspondence and follow up emails. This delay is unacceptable, and we are investigating the delay internally.

In your emails, you ask a number of important questions around the legal framework for powered transporters, and the reasoning behind that framework. You highlight that powered transporters such as electric unicycles are already being used on UK roads, and ask what the Government’s approach to these vehicles will be going forward.

With regard to the legal framework for powered transporters, such as electric scooters or electric unicycles, the Department has clarified its position in an information sheet, available online at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/powered-transporters.

As this sets out, and as you highlight in your email, the Department does not believe that personal powered transporters can meet the current requirements for vehicles for use on the road. The Government is committed to ensuring the safety of all road users; requiring vehicles to comply with construction requirements, and putting appropriate restrictions on where they can be used, is an important part of maintaining the UK’s good road safety record.

For pedestrians, particularly disabled people, unobstructed access to the pavement is a key part of enabling them to move around freely and independently. Indeed, the footway must remain available for all pedestrians, to support the Government’s ambitions to increase levels of walking, especially for short journeys. For this reason, the Highway Act 1835 is in place to prohibit the use of ‘carriages’ on pavements. ‘Carriage’ refers to all vehicles, including pedal cycles and powered transporters.

The only exception to this is wheelchairs and mobility scooters (defined as ‘invalid carriages’ in law), which are permitted to use the pavement through specific legislation, which also sets rules on their use. For example, mobility scooters are limited to a maximum speed of 4mph on the pavement and 8mph on the road.

Finally, powered transporters are also not permitted to use cycle facilities such as tracks or lanes, as these are defined in law as being reserved for pedal cycles, including electrically assisted pedal cycles that meet the relevant legislation.
This does not mean that we wish to prohibit the introduction of new technologies, such as powered transporters, by default. Indeed, the Government recognises the essential role that new technologies, transport solutions, and business models will play in helping to resolve the urgent transport issues you raise in your email, such as increasing congestion and pollution.

The Government is reviewing a wide range of transport law as part of the Future of Mobility Grand Challenge, which was announced in the Industrial Strategy in November 2017. The aim is to establish a flexible regulatory framework to encourage new transport modes and business models, by undertaking a thorough review of all relevant legislation. The scope of this regulatory review will be informed by the responses to the Future of Mobility Call for Evidence, which closed on 10 September 2018. We are currently analysing these responses and will be announcing the priorities for the regulatory review in early 2019.

We recognise that powered transporters are currently available for sale in the UK, and are considering ways to address this issue. Your feedback on this is appreciated, and I have shared your emails with policy leads involved in the Future of Mobility Grand Challenge.

For further information on the Future of Mobility Grand Challenge, please visit: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/industrial-strategy-the-grand-challenges/industrial-strategy-the-grand-challenges.

Please do accept my sincere apologies once again for the delay in responding to you. Should you have any further questions, please do write to the Future of Mobility Team directly at futureofmobility@dft.gov.uk.

Yours sincerely,

XXXXXXXXX

Policy Advisor, Future of Mobility Team, Department for Transport

This article from July 2019 provides a nice follow up summary of the findings from the early DfT review...

Department For Transport Asks Stakeholders Today Whether U.K. Should Legalize E-Scooters

Edited October 7, 2019 by Nic

[Retrovertigo]

 This is all regarding the U.K from my perspective.

The big concern is that they put a blanket limit on scooters at least, of 250W. So if you live in a hilly area and weight more than a month old baby, you'll be walking with it as much as you ride it.

It needs common sense and work like cars do, you can buy any power, but have to follow the rules of whatever speed limit is in place. This would need you using either an onboard speedometer or mounting a phone on the handlebars. Then they trust scooter users to be like drivers, and be honest enough to stick to any speed restrictions. But you just know that won't happen.

As for EUC's, I can see them getting their knickers in a twist and saying that a single wheel is just too unstable to be safely used on roads. We know here, that that isn't the case. But we also know that there is a learning curve involved, and how many people will pay attention to that and be careful if they rush out and buy one if they become legal. Or would they just start riding around their streets without properly learning how to ride first?

And finally, the government here are a bunch of fossils from the past with no idea of how to properly handle future transports.

[Nic]

I would suggest anyone in UK that is concerned should email the DfT (email: futureofmobility@dft.gov.uk) with their concerns to ensure that they don't screw things up with any new legislation.

[stephen]

4 minutes ago, Retrovertigo said:

This is all regarding the U.K from my perspective.

The big concern is that they put a blanket limit on scooters at least, of 250W. So if you live in a hilly area and weight more than a month old baby, you'll be walking with it as much as you ride it.

I've had a few electric bikes but only owned one, the first 2 i bought was useless at going up hill which i have several here especially going to work and is what i wanted it for so returned them. I then had to go the illegal route and buy an ebike  with a more powerful motor(illegal) just so it could handle the hills ,i still had to pedal but pedaling a 250w ebike up a hill is even harder work because the bikes so heavy but the illegal bike did it's job😁

Like you say they limited the motor to 250w which might of been ok if you was light and had flat roads