Bad News from Germany

[RenaissanceMan]

Black day for EUCs in Germany

Last week, the Bundesrat (German Federal Council) put forward an amendment to the recent e-mobility directive of the Bundesministerium für Verkehr und digitale Infrastruktur (German Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure) requesting to drop special regulations that would exempt (and thereby legalize) EUCs in the new directive. This new motion essentially implies that all PLEV vehicles without steering wheel/handlebars won't get insurance and will (continue to) be forbidden on German public grounds since EUCs by default they are considered standard motorized automobile vehicles like your BMW or Mercedes which German legislators' intellectual horizon naturally requires to have a proper steering wheel/handlebar. Otherwise automobile vehicles surely cannot be considered safe (or at least safe enough to kill hundreds of people every year). So, from now on every cop from will just have to look for a handlebar in order to assess a vehicle's legal status in Germany which means that EUCs and e-skateboards will be even more easily identified and hunted down.

Here is the relevant passage (in German):

"Der Bundesrat stellt fest, dass die 2018 veröffentlichte Untersuchung der Bundesanstalt für Straßenwesen zu Elektrokleinstfahrzeugen die Empfehlung enthält, nur Elektrokleinstfahrzeuge mit Haltegriff beziehungsweise Lenker für den öffentlichen Straßenverkehr zuzulassen, um ein Mindestniveau für die Sicherheit herzustellen. Die Überlegungen der Bundesregierung, Elektrokleinstfahrzeuge ohne Lenk- oder Haltestange über eine Ausnahmeverordnung im öffentlichen Straßenraum für mindestens zwei bis drei Jahre zu testen, werden vom Bundesrat daher abgelehnt."

This literally spells the end of EUCs in Germany for at least another decade.

Yesterday at a small e-mobility fair in Lower Saxony I talked to some bureaucrats about this. The only sense I could make from their statements is that while keeping the public in the dark German politicians so heavily depend on the automobile industry and its jobs that they actively and effectively discourage impede any alternative e-mobility strategies that would only even remotely appear to divert the smallest funds away from the automobile industry.

... and all this with Dieselgate still unfolding - WTF

[Smoother]

That's a damn shame. These f..ing rentable esccoters are ruining everything.  Has the proposal been adopted, or is it still just a proposal?

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Smoother

[meepmeepmayer]

3 hours ago, Smoother said:

These f..ing rentable esccoters are ruining everything.

No they are not. They're just a handy excuse. If we used the same standards on cars, they would be banned already. It's plain and simple corruption - bought, stupid politicians. That's all.

I'm starting to think I should start an organization that is specifically dedicated to damaging the German car industry and the rich people and bought politicians behind it. Fire with fire. Enough people would pay for this to make it viable.

As for this, a failed amendment that would have made a shitty regulation slightly less shitty isn't a big deal. It would have been shitty and overly prohibitive either way. Only solution is to ignore the law and just ride and get militant if you get into trouble for it

Edited May 5, 2019 by meepmeepmayer
grammar

[Maartenv]

What would you guys think of introducing a minimum age and an exam for using euc's in public?

In our advantage there would be less discussion on banning it all together.. and tbh, the uncertainty/unclear legislation is so annoying.

 

 

 

[_Patrick_]

16 hours ago, RenaissanceMan said:

Black day for EUCs in Germany

Last week, the Bundesrat (German Federal Council) put forward an amendment to the recent e-mobility directive of the Bundesministerium für Verkehr und digitale Infrastruktur (German Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure) requesting to drop special regulations that would exempt (and thereby legalize) EUCs in the new directive. This new motion essentially implies that all PLEV vehicles without steering wheel/handlebars won't get insurance and will (continue to) be forbidden on German public grounds since EUCs by default they are considered standard motorized automobile vehicles like your BMW or Mercedes which German legislators' intellectual horizon naturally requires to have a proper steering wheel/handlebar. Otherwise automobile vehicles surely cannot be considered safe (or at least safe enough to kill hundreds of people every year). So, from now on every cop from will just have to look for a handlebar in order to assess a vehicle's legal status in Germany which means that EUCs and e-skateboards will be even more easily identified and hunted down.

 

Here is the relevant passage (in German):

 

"Der Bundesrat stellt fest, dass die 2018 veröffentlichte Untersuchung der Bundesanstalt für Straßenwesen zu Elektrokleinstfahrzeugen die Empfehlung enthält, nur Elektrokleinstfahrzeuge mit Haltegriff beziehungsweise Lenker für den öffentlichen Straßenverkehr zuzulassen, um ein Mindestniveau für die Sicherheit herzustellen. Die Überlegungen der Bundesregierung, Elektrokleinstfahrzeuge ohne Lenk- oder Haltestange über eine Ausnahmeverordnung im öffentlichen Straßenraum für mindestens zwei bis drei Jahre zu testen, werden vom Bundesrat daher abgelehnt."

 

This literally spells the end of EUCs in Germany for at least another decade.

 

Yesterday at a small e-mobility fair in Lower Saxony I talked to some bureaucrats about this. The only sense I could make from their statements is that while keeping the public in the dark German politicians so heavily depend on the automobile industry and its jobs that they actively and effectively discourage impede any alternative e-mobility strategies that would only even remotely appear to divert the smallest funds away from the automobile industry.

 

... and all this with Dieselgate still unfolding - WTF

 

No, nothing is over, its only a recommandation. The final decision is 17.05.2019

[Hatchet]

Mobilize anyone you can on FB and elsewhere, here, etc. Maybe calls to legislators, emails, a petition, local paper? Push the environmental angle.

I'm no believer in gov't doing what's right, unless that happens to align with what gets them re-elected (sweet sweet cash).

[MetricUSA]

There is no way they can class euc as cars.... Definition of a car is a vehicle with steering wheel and mirrors and lots of lights, Etc.! That's why steeringwheelless automated cars are having a problem going getting on the road, legally!!!

[hal2000]

 

On 5/5/2019 at 7:15 PM, Hatchet said:

Mobilize anyone you can on FB and elsewhere, here, etc. Maybe calls to legislators, emails, a petition, local paper? Push the environmental angle.

I'm no believer in gov't doing what's right, unless that happens to align with what gets them re-elected (sweet sweet cash).

 

Are we on change.org yet?

[Maartenv]

4 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

There is no way they can class euc as cars.... Definition of a car is a vehicle with steering wheel and mirrors and lots of lights, Etc.! That's why steeringwheelless automated cars are having a problem going getting on the road, legally!!!

That’s why we have parliaments voting new legislation. Problem is most politicians are badly informed. As a consequence they like lobbyists doing the work for them.

[RenaissanceMan]

Today was another hearing with the Committee on Transport and Digital Infrastructure of the German Bundestag. It was not streamed live but will be made accessible tomorrow.

I was not there but other persons involved in the subject attended the meeting and concluded that by the new directive EUCs and e-skateboards (and almost any other type of PLEV) will DEFINITELY be banned from the streets of Germany INDEFINITELY, no exceptions.

Well, as I said, times will be tougher for us one wheel enthusiasts in this nation of poets and philosophers ...

Oh and, e-scooters by BMW, VW, AUDI, and other German car manufacturers limited to a max velocity of 20 km/h at a price of more than 2000€ a piece will be allowed. Makes sense, doesn't it?!

[Smoother]

6 minutes ago, RenaissanceMan said:

Oh and, e-scooters by BMW, VW, AUDI, and other German car manufacturers limited to a max velocity of 20 km/h at a price of more than 2000€ a piece will be allowed. Makes sense, doesn't it?!

Other than the bribery probably associated with this, what features do these vehicles have that makes them legal?  Could an Euc qualify if it had the same features? Or would it not be an EUC anymore. I assume handlebar and brakes.

[RenaissanceMan]

Indeed, it's the missing handlebar and the second, independently working set of brakes.

I forgot to mention that I read all position papers by all speakers of today''s session and none - with the exception of Electric Empire and the FDP party - voted in favor of EUCs  but instead explicitly wanted them (i.e. all PLEVs without a proper handlebar) to be strictly prohibited.

[RenaissanceMan]

For the German speaking folks links to the position papers and session transcript (from tomorrow on) can be found here:

 

[RenaissanceMan]

Sometimes I hate to be right.

Today the German Federal Council voted on the new PLEV directive. It was accepted with its amendments from expert groups. From now on  PLEV with handlebars, max 20km/h, special permit and insurance are allowed on German bicycle paths.

They explicitly rejected an amendment that would make an exception to EUCs and e-boards. So, until hell freezes over EUCs remain illegal in Germany. Period.

 

[Scubadragonsan]

That really sucks!

[LucasD]

Theoretically I see loophole

Vehicles with electromotive drive shall be approved for use on the public road if they meet the following technical requirements: 
- handlebar or stanchion, 
- maximum design speed of at least 6 km/h up to a maximum of 20 km/h, 
- power restricted to 500 watt (1400 watt for self-balancing vehicles), 

Stanchion is not particularly well defined nor its minimum height. So one could argue that unicycle by definition is station, and the one with handlebars for sure.

Def. (Cambridge) a fixed vertical bar or pole used as a support for something

Hover-boards won't classify though

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, LucasD said:

Theoretically I see loophole

Vehicles with electromotive drive shall be approved for use on the public road if they meet the following technical requirements: 
- handlebar or stanchion, 
- maximum design speed of at least 6 km/h up to a maximum of 20 km/h, 
- power restricted to 500 watt (1400 watt for self-balancing vehicles), 

Stanchion is not particularly well defined nor its minimum height. So one could argue that unicycle by definition is station, and the one with handlebars for sure.

Def. (Cambridge) a fixed vertical bar or pole used as a support for something

Hover-boards won't classify though

Attach a stick vertically to the front of your wheel, hey presto..stanchion watch out for your nuts.  Maybe put a small "T" on top and now you've got handle bars.

Or...build your own handlebar set up like this mini dude:

I really like what he came up with.  I would have built one myself except I could represent my country in the procrastination games.

I'm so glad EUCs aren't completely illegal here in the UK.  Oh wait!, they are!

Edited May 17, 2019 by Smoother

[Mono]

On 5/5/2019 at 6:55 PM, _Patrick_ said:

No, nothing is over, its only a recommandation. The final decision is 17.05.2019

And even that is not likely to be a final decision, whether an exception approval is granted or not. On the long run, a light electric vehicle class which is legal in France, Belgium, Denmark etc. won't remain illegal in Germany forever.

[MBIKER_SURFER]

I'm fed up with th politicians in Germany. 

I continue riding until they'll catch me 

[Luca]

Hallo Leute, 

 

Ich bin ein Italienischer Student und ich werde in Passau ein Deutschkurs besuchen (entschuldigen Sie mich für die Unrichtigkeit).

 

Ich wollte fragen, ob es irgendwas wie einen Einrader-Whatsappgruppe für Passau oder Bayern gibt .

 

Wie viel ist der Strafzettel?

 

Raten Sie mir meine inmotion v8 nicht zu fahren?

 

Antworten sie mir bitte! Ich werde verrückt bekommen wenn meine Einrad nicht benutzen kann!

 

P.s. Bitte, Fühlen Sie sich frei mich zu korrigieren, ich habe so viel zu lernen.

 

Luca Castiglioni 

 

 

[Mossi]

Hallo Luca,

ziemlich gutes Deutsch für jemanden der es erst lernt. Welten besser als mein Englisch

Wie hoch eine potentielle Strafe ausfallen würde kann ich nicht sagen, da ich zum Glück noch nicht angehalten wurde. Auf jeden Fall ist es Fahren ohne Versicherungsschutz (Straftat), Fahren ohne Zulassung (Ordnungswidrigkeit) und ggf. Fahren ohne Führerschein (Straftat). Billig wird es also nicht und wer dreimal ohne Führerschein erwischt wird wandert ins Gefängnis. Die Polizei hat außerdem das Recht das Einrad einzuziehen und zu zerstören, wobei mir kein Fall bekannt ist in dem es nicht zurückgegeben wurde.

Trotz der harten Strafen fahre ich mein Rad fast täglich und fahre damit auch auf die Arbeit. Ich versuche große Straßen zu meiden und halte immer Ausschau nach der Polizei. Wenn ich sie sehe steige ich ab, nehme den Helm ab und versuche wie ein Fußgänger mit Koffer zu wirken. Trotzdem hat mich die Polizei schon häufiger fahren sehen, bisher hat glücklicherweise noch nie jemand etwas gesagt. Sie scheinen also andere Prioritäten zu haben als Einradfahrern das Leben schwer zu machen. Wobei mir durchaus Fälle bekannt sind in denen das geschehen ist. Da es verboten ist setzt man sich immer einer gewissen Gefahr aus. Ich fahre in Gegenwart von Fußgängern und anderen Verkehrsteilnehmern langsam und betont sicher. Solange man sich verantwortungsbewusst verhält und keine Gefahr darstellt kann man das Einrad also auch in Deutschland nutzen. Viel Glück!