Ninebot Z10 Carving?

[Twiggen]

Hi guys,

 

I'm looking to get a Z10 and wanted to hear peoples' opinions on them, specifically their carveability. I know that KS 18XL / MSX is more nimble and can make sharper turns, but what about the carving experience? I'm looking to get the most "fun", which is not necessarily the most agility, but more like the thrill of shredding down ski slopes. I ask because I've heard so many people complain about the Z10 being too stable at speed, but at the same time I've also heard that it makes for a more fun and visceral ride because you can really lean into the turns unlike on other EUCs. That "lean" is what tempts me most, since that's what I love most about carving on my longboards. I'm a relatively athletic 20-something so I think I'll be able to push it more to the limit, but at 5'7" and 155 lbs I don't have as much weight to throw around. What do you guys think? How do you find the experience of carving on the Z10 compared to other EUCs? 

 

Thanks!

[Heyzeus]

I would wait to see what the KS16x is like.

According to kuji's video it was very nimble, and with it's high pedal height one should be able to do tighter turns or lean into turns more without pedal scraping.

Plus with it's 3 inch tire, it might just be in the sweetspot between the largness of the ninebot tire at 4 inches, and the 2.125/2.5 inch tires of the 16s/18xl.

Reviews will tell but if you can wait for more impressions it might not be a bad idea, especially with ninebot's reported customer service issues.

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, Heyzeus said:

Plus with it's 3 inch tire, it might just be in the sweetspot between the largness of the ninebot tire at 4 inches, and the 2.125/2.5 inch tires of the 16s/18xl.

Like-width tires with only 2" difference in diameter ride pretty much alike IMHO, as evidenced by the 3" wide wheels of the 18" MSX vs 16" Nikola (relatively similar tire feels upon riding), or 2.5" wide wheels of the 18" KS18XL vs 16" V10F (again, relatively similar tire feels upon riding). 

 

2 hours ago, Twiggen said:

I'm looking to get a Z10 and wanted to hear peoples' opinions on them, specifically their carveability. I know that KS 18XL / MSX is more nimble and can make sharper turns, but what about the carving experience? I'm looking to get the most "fun", which is not necessarily the most agility, but more like the thrill of shredding down ski slopes. I ask because I've heard so many people complain about the Z10 being too stable at speed, but at the same time I've also heard that it makes for a more fun and visceral ride because you can really lean into the turns unlike on other EUCs. That "lean" is what tempts me most, since that's what I love most about carving on my longboards. I'm a relatively athletic 20-something so I think I'll be able to push it more to the limit, but at 5'7" and 155 lbs I don't have as much weight to throw around. What do you guys think? How do you find the experience of carving on the Z10 compared to other EUCs? 

Every other EUC 3" wide and thinner require much less effort to bend the wheel parallel to the ground to carve/turn; the thinner you go, the less distance in width the tire has to travel, thus the faster it falls over for carving & turns. Some regard this as more "agile" and "maneuverable".

But what if you think these wheels fall too fast?

What if you want to be able to play with that fall, ie. manipulate the falling wheel with your leaning bodyweight for more nuanced control when turning and carving?

This is what the Z wide tire feels like to me, and for me, and it's awesome; no other wheel has this feel, not even the 3" wide ones.

 

Honestly, comparing the Z vs all other wheels that go thinner is pointless IMHO, they are simply not the same kind of rides, like a boulder (Z) vs a sportsbike (thinner EUC's), there's an application for both, and both are fun, but different fun, and I would always opt to have one of both.

With the Z, everything is in bigger delay in terms of changing your directional vector, but because of this delay, it's so easy to do stuff like figure-8 in place, do pendulums and different pendulum-like maneuvers while changing directions mid-ride, as change directions is much easier on the fly on the Z. Doing the same on thinner EUC's are much more jerky, as everything has to happen in a shorter timeframe due to the quicker fall of the thinner tire (on the Z at a stop light, I literally don't have to get off the wheel because I can eggbeater/figure-8 in place until the light turns green).

And yes, IMHO it is super fun to do lean turns on the Z, much like how I imagine the motorcyclists do (for sharper turns, you have to lean, but within reason). While yes, the ability to go closer to parallel with the pavement is not as sharp on the Z as compared to a thinner tired EUC, it's not to the degree where I can't make the same maneuvers I need to do in the typical city environment, just requires different technique than the norm.

I think the boulder example is really the closest way I can describe what it feels like to ride the Z, with the wide roundness of the tire feel, along with delay in changing directional vectors.

 

And I'm not sure your carving example is quite the correct one to explain the difference/advantage of the Z versus other thinner EUCs, as carving is usually equated with quick and sharp turning, which is most certainly not the feel or attraction of the Z.

[Hatchet]

I feel a huge noticable difference between my 2.5" KS18S and my 3" MSX. Big enough I won't but any wheel under a 3" tire now (since 16" is the smallest I'd buy)

[Darrell Wesh]

@houseofjob is spot on. The Z10 is the most “fun” wheel I have (although not my favorite wheel). The wider, more stable tire paradoxically makes riding the Z10 more challenging(at speed), engaging and fun. 

I wanted to sell the Z within the first month I had it. Listening to advice on higher tire pressure(30+psi) left me with a wheel that responded only slightly different than my MSX but with dramatically slower speed. 

I wanted to be able to have to really lean into the turns, to have it be a monumental effort to steer the wheel. I have since lowered my tire pressure to 20psi (at 180lbs)and all of a sudden the Z is the first wheel I ride every day. Carving is a blast, as @houseofjob said in his Z10 review, the Z is like one of those punching figures that keeps coming back to you after you hit it(you’ll know what that means when you ride it). This means once you start slaloming it’s very easy to keep it going as you lean away from the Z at an impossible angle due to the slow response and the Z returns back to you and your body leans the opposite way/ rinse and repeat.

As fun as the wider tire is , I will always go for a 2.5” wide tire in traffic for the much quicker direction changes and I just love the feeling of instability that you get on traditional tire widths. It feels like I’m drunk when I go from the Z to my Ks18s. 

Its ironic that its called the One Z10, because it will never feel like you’re “one” with it(response is too slow); only the more narrow 2.5” 18’s can feel like they read your mind (and the 14”s even more!) Of the few wheels I have (MSX, Ks18s, ks14s, V5, Z10) the Z10 is the wheel I feel the LEAST safe on(my opinion). Due to the inadequate braking, and the aforementioned, it just doesn’t feel like it reads your mind like the other wheels so I feel less in control. 

 

[Twiggen]

Wow, thank you all for the incredibly detailed responses! Clears up a lot of things I wanted to know, and more too  I'm still leaning more towards a Z10, but now I won't feel as bad if I find a KS18L for a better deal, both sound like great wheels. 

[houseofjob]

13 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Listening to advice on higher tire pressure(30+psi) left me with a wheel that responded only slightly different than my MSX but with dramatically slower speed.

Yeah, I'm with you on the Z speed, definitely wish there was more of it (without hacking the FW).

 

13 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

As fun as the wider tire is , I will always go for a 2.5” wide tire in traffic for the much quicker direction changes and I just love the feeling of instability that you get on traditional tire widths. It feels like I’m drunk when I go from the Z to my Ks18s. 

For sure, I love the quick carve of a 2.5"  just as much as the delay of the Z 4.1". Probably 2.5" is the bare minimum width before you start sacrificing bump absorption too.

 

13 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Of the few wheels I have (MSX, Ks18s, ks14s, V5, Z10) the Z10 is the wheel I feel the LEAST safe on(my opinion). Due to the inadequate braking, and the aforementioned, it just doesn’t feel like it reads your mind like the other wheels so I feel less in control. 

The Z is definitely about anticipation, but you have more of a timeframe to do it I think. Yes, the Z is weaker braking than the competition, but I feel I can shift and anticipate easier than a quick reacting 2.5" wide, in order to S-curve to shave off speed. 

(and wow, you have a lot of slower wheels for a guy who likes speed! No Monster though? )

 

12 minutes ago, Twiggen said:

Wow, thank you all for the incredibly detailed responses! Clears up a lot of things I wanted to know, and more too  I'm still leaning more towards a Z10, but now I won't feel as bad if I find a KS18L for a better deal, both sound like great wheels. 

Sure thing~

As much as I love my Z, if this will be your one-and-only wheel to rule-them-all, that KS18L might be a better first buy for the versatility. But your call in the end, the Z can suffice by itself as long as you accept the practical limitations (lack of long-range, no speed charger, not top-of-the-line speed, etc.).

[phatmike]

I think that the KS 18 L (or xl) is the best carver 

[Darrell Wesh]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

The Z is definitely about anticipation, but you have more of a timeframe to do it I think. Yes, the Z is weaker braking than the competition, but I feel I can shift and anticipate easier than a quick reacting 2.5" wide, in order to S-curve to shave off speed. 

(and wow, you have a lot of slower wheels for a guy who likes speed! No Monster though? )

Eh... one example I have is if you find yourself having to cut left or right very quickly to avoid an obstacle like a pothole or human that darts in your path. The Z will take far too long to do the left or right turn compared to a thinner tire width. 

As far as my slow wheels, I was against getting a Gotway for a long time because of the reported cutouts and lack of safety in regards to letting you speed excessively. Now that I have one I understand how to use them safely and love the performance that no other brand can give you. Was looking for the Nikola to be my next wheel but who knows ..... I cant get the Monster lol it would make my Ks18s obsolete and probably my MSX too as far as speed from the 100v

[houseofjob]

22 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Eh... one example I have is if you find yourself having to cut left or right very quickly to avoid an obstacle like a pothole or human that darts in your path. The Z will take far too long to do the left or right turn compared to a thinner tire width. 

Ah true, except on moderate potholes and manhole covers, the Z has quite a pleasant thud rebound, just running right over 

 

22 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

As far as my slow wheels, I was against getting a Gotway for a long time because of the reported cutouts and lack of safety in regards to letting you speed excessively. Now that I have one I understand how to use them safely and love the performance that no other brand can give you. 

Ah makes sense. My second ever wheel purchase of the KS-18A was due to the reports of yesteryear, MSuper2 being riddled with rusting and axle breakage I believe 

But Gotway has really come a long way I think, totally reliable now, the "King Song is the safest" comments don't really hold as much weight now IMHO.

 

22 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Was looking for the Nikola to be my next wheel but who knows ..... I cant get the Monster lol it would make my Ks18s obsolete and probably my MSX too as far as speed from the 100v

LOL, my bad

Nikola is still a great wheel I think, just not gonna outdo any of the existing wheels in a particular category. I'm tempted to pick one up myself if they go 100V for the increased speed (probably will bump it up to a solid 35mph max) and resign myself to the fact that it'll be a bloated medium-speed, non-sitting wheel, just to have a backup for the sake of being a backup (plus the dope night LED spinner look, which I no longer have, having sold off my V10F, KS18L, MCM5).

And you're right, kind of, about the KS18S obsolete thing. When I had my 84V Monster, I tended to ride the Monster much more than the KS18S, then switched back just because I wasn't riding the KS18S enough  Now when my 100V Monster comes in, I'll kind of be in the same boat again....

[TDK]

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I found such a video (not mine).

 

 

[ED209]

59 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Now when my 100V Monster comes in

So you have a 100V Monster on the way? 😍 Which colour did you go for? 

Also, how does the Nikola stack up against the V10f? Is the finish as good? Is it as smooth and comfortable as the V10f? I really hope there will be a 100V version. 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Was looking for the Nikola to be my next wheel but who knows ..... I cant get the Monster lol it would make my Ks18s obsolete and probably my MSX too as far as speed from the 100v

MSX 100V is technically the fastest.

[houseofjob]

10 minutes ago, ED209 said:

So you have a 100V Monster on the way? 😍 Which colour did you go for? 

 

10 minutes ago, ED209 said:

Also, how does the Nikola stack up against the V10f? Is the finish as good? Is it as smooth and comfortable as the V10f? I really hope there will be a 100V version. 

Finish? Like the plastic? Seemed similar between these 2 models, but honestly, I didn't pay too much attention to the plastic.

Both are smooth, but the Gotway feel, in general, tends to be stiffer comparatively to how InMotion program their gyro feel. Comforts are similar too IMHO, but if it weren't for the slippery V10F pedal insets and flat pedal angle, I would give the edge to the V10F. Both tires are very cushy; I would have to compare side-by-side to really be fair (no V10F at the demo to compare against unfortunately).

I would much rather have an 84V Nikola over the V10F if it were me.

[Darrell Wesh]

48 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

MSX 100V is technically the fastest.

Yes but I have a 84v MSX i use for speed runs. The 100v Monster would make me never use it. 

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

LOL, my bad

Nikola is still a great wheel I think, just not gonna outdo any of the existing wheels in a particular category. I'm tempted to pick one up myself if they go 100V for the increased speed (probably will bump it up to a solid 35mph max) and resign myself to the fact that it'll be a bloated medium-speed, non-sitting wheel, just to have a backup for the sake of being a backup (plus the dope night LED spinner look, which I no longer have, having sold off my V10F, KS18L, MCM5).

Yes, @houseofjob, you are the sole reason I am not buying the Nikola. If you had said that sitting was doable I would have already preordered it 😩

[houseofjob]

16 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Yes, @houseofjob, you are the sole reason I am not buying the Nikola. If you had said that sitting was doable I would have already preordered it 😩

*No pressure* 

If I could figure out how to design/3D-print a tall, dope a** looking seat solution, the Nikola could work I think (along with any short EUC really ha).

Gotta finally up and buy a 3D printer one of these days.