Barrett Roberts Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Hey All! Haven’t been around in a while but I needed to stop by and get some advice. Since I got my Z10 I just don’t really want to ride any of my other wheels. Had no trouble selling my Onewheel for $1000 which was a shock but I wanted to see what you all felt was a fair price for an almost new KS-14S and bruised up KS18S (first wheel). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 That really is a thumbs up for the Z10 No idea on prices but KS18S should shift easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrett Roberts Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Gaz Bon said: That really is a thumbs up for the Z10 No idea on prices but KS18S should shift easy Appreciate it. The Z10 is a weird animal. It’s kinda squirrelly. Turns like a tank. Bounces like crazy but I still love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetfann Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The Z10 is my favorite wheel by far. Battery life and the speaker are the only weak points, but the ride is superior to anything else I’ve ridden. I can’t say I blame you for selling your other wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanzen Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Funny how diferent we all are ... 1200 km on my Z10 that I learned to love despite obvious flaws. Got a 1600 MSX last week and decided to part with my Z10. I find the MSX so more comfortable and easy to ride, not even speaking about range and speed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 17 hours ago, Barrett Roberts said: Hey All! Haven’t been around in a while but I needed to stop by and get some advice. Since I got my Z10 I just don’t really want to ride any of my other wheels. Had no trouble selling my Onewheel for $1000 which was a shock but I wanted to see what you all felt was a fair price for an almost new KS-14S and bruised up KS18S (first wheel). Thanks! The ks18s has a seat. That should automatically keep it in your stable of wheels. If you ever go on group rides you’re going to want to bring that wheel and not the Z. How long have you had the Z? If it’s less than 2 months I can only imagine you’re still in the “honeymoon phase” and eventually your enthusiasm to ride it will mellow down and you’ll rotate wheels only to rediscover the joys of the previous ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Gadgetfann said: The Z10 is my favorite wheel by far. Battery life and the speaker are the only weak points, but the ride is superior to anything else I’ve ridden. I can’t say I blame you for selling your other wheels. You can’t fault the wheel for having something barely any other wheel has except the king songs (music speakers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetfann Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 True, but with my helmet on I’d like to be able to hear the beeps. It’s more of a safety issue than anything. The KingSong is exceptionally loud. Louder speakers and more range would make the Z10 perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Gadgetfann said: True, but with my helmet on I’d like to be able to hear the beeps. It’s more of a safety issue than anything. The KingSong is exceptionally loud. Louder speakers and more range would make the Z10 perfect. Ah I see, thought you were talking about the low volume music. What kind of helmet do you have? Some people have complained of not hearing gotway beeps and are wearing motorcycle helmets designed to stifle sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The Z10 is polarizing indeed, but I find myself reaching for it almost every trip out. No other wheel IMHO comes close to giving confidence on crappy urban city streets (except the Monster), plus the slow-play of the wide tire makes it so easy to egg-beater / figure-8 while waiting for a traffic light, ie. not dismounting. That said, the KS-18S will always have a place in my rotation; totally different usage case wheel than the Z: long-range but compact seated class (and no, I don't regard the MSX/MSV3 a proper seated wheel). In fact, the Z (compact super wide), KS-18S (compact seated long-range), and Monster (full-size seated long-range) all belong in separate classes IMHO; they have no similarly built competitors. And it's funny how people become blinded by the performance of the MSX and excuse everything else about it. To me, the MSX is top 5 all-time performance wheel 🙌, top 5 all-time worst comfort / ergonomics wheel . All the ride modes are tuned way too hard, creating fatigue over prolong rides, and the fact that Gotway took the recycled, almost 3-year old MSV3 shell and simply just shifted the pedals up higher (the shell height needed to increase to compensate) creates this unsettling feeling of riding with even less side shell to leverage against. It's indicative that riders keep playing with de-angling the pedals and devising new sidepads.... this is all signs of bad ergonomics / comfort. Even the MSV3, which it borrows it's shell from, was way more comfortable, with more side shell leverage and true Gotway soft modes (less fatigue). It's still a bit mystifying to me why people would continue to buy this model, when clearly Gotway will be coming out with better models, better ergonomic shell designs based on basically the same performance MSX-type motor *smh (ie. more rounded & comfortable shells, ala KS-18S, MCM5, etc, that almost need no side padding). Note, I haven't even talked about the crap MSX shell quality; it's hard to find an MSX owner in NYC who doesn't have a broken trolley handle handle,... or forgo using the trolley handle altogether due to this part's weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, houseofjob said: And it's funny how people become blinded by the performance of the MSX and excuse everything else about it. Amen🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetfann Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: Ah I see, thought you were talking about the low volume music. What kind of helmet do you have? Some people have complained of not hearing gotway beeps and are wearing motorcycle helmets designed to stifle sound. I wear a POC Artic SL spin helmet. It’s like an open face motorcycle helmet, but has a chin Guard, which I hope will help if I ever faceplant. I can hear beeps on my KingSong wheel loud and clear at all speeds, but struggle to hear anything after 20mph on the Z10. That’s really my only annoyance other than the speed throttling at 50% battery life. The Z10 is the wheel I always grab every time I go out for a short trip. For longer rides, I take the KingSong 18L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanzen Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 hours ago, Lutalo said: Amen🙏 and its funny how people become blinded by the look of the Z10 and excuse everything else about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 12 hours ago, houseofjob said: And it's funny how people become blinded by the performance of the MSX and excuse everything else about it. The best part about it is that it is not like the other wheels. Just picture someone standing in front of a race car and saying, "And it's funny how people become blinded by the performance of the Indy Car and excuse everything else about it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, RockyTop said: The best part about it is that it is not like the other wheels. Just picture someone standing in front of a race car and saying, "And it's funny how people become blinded by the performance of the Indy Car and excuse everything else about it." If they use that Indy car mostly on a track then excusing everything else is reasonable because that's an appropriate use case for an Indy car. However, I would have a pretty strong opinion of someone using it as a commuter car to drop the kiddies off at school and get to work "excusing everything else about it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 55 minutes ago, Lutalo said: If they use that Indy car mostly on a track then excusing everything else is reasonable because that's an appropriate use case for an Indy car. However, I would have a pretty strong opinion of someone using it as a commuter car to drop the kiddies off at school and get to work "excusing everything else about it." This from a guy that rides a sports bike? I have had plenty of race cars more fitted to the road than a sports bike. It is all about trade offs. The point is that we do not all use EUC’s for the same purposes or on the same surfaces. We have different riding styles and preferences. I am very grateful that most of the wheels are very different. I just wish that the differences were more advertised. Figuratively speaking we have people off roading on Harleys and cruising on CRs then complaining about the short comings. “ CRs suck! The top cruising speed is 80 MPH and it dose not even have a radio. -No Harleys suck! Mine got stuck in the parking lot at the motocross track!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, RockyTop said: The best part about it is that it is not like the other wheels. Just picture someone standing in front of a race car and saying, "And it's funny how people become blinded by the performance of the Indy Car and excuse everything else about it." Think you're missing my point. I love Gotway performance like everyone else. The MSX is the worst setup for it IMHO, every other shell design since the OG MSuperV3 has felt better. They're going to make a better setup/version of this performance, their product release history has proven this. Why pay for a worse version of an old shell design where Gotway is just trying to milk the last profits of an EOL design? Why not wait and get the best version of this new generation of Gotway performance, best return for your money? 5 hours ago, Vanzen said: and its funny how people become blinded by the look of the Z10 and excuse everything else about it I can tell you exactly the weaknesses of the Z: range; weight; speed; weak braking (grrrr, why haven't they put out a firmware yet to fix this?); weak headlight; pedals are too low for the extra wide, hence everyone's complaints about the handling. But I've stated the functional, not aesthetic, advantages of the Z in my post above, ones that I cannot find in other wheel manufacturers, simply because they don't offer a super wide (I hope they all start to). But also when you claim the MSX is more comfortable... highly agree to disagree. Easier to ride, yes. But even just amongst all Gotway models of the past 2 years, the MSX is IMHO the least comfortable I've ever ridden, and I've ridden them all. And why people still try to compare the MSX and Z is still a mystery to me, they are not remotely the same use cases, simply by the specs alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, RockyTop said: This from a guy that rides a sports bike? I have had plenty of race cars more fitted to the road than a sports bike. sports bike. Not race bike. Designed specifically with hybrid use purpose in mind; no fitting necessary. Not the most comfortable roadgoing bike; but comfortable. Not the fastest around the track; but very fast and capable. Customizing/fitting a race car for road use is an altogether different point from a specialized unit that is functionally a fish out of water being rationalized as suitable for a purpose which it was not intended or adequately suited. The overall point I was trying to get at is that desire has a "blinding" effect on judgement and sensibilities that may challenge the reasonableness of a given desire. We see this at work with most things including how we rationalize the functional shortcomings of some types of EUCs because we desire something emotional that one may feel a particular wheel offers. I have seen how desire can work against judgement. I have been there with certain females that I am now hoping won't find me on Facebook and try to friend me; Judgement has demolished desire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrd777 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, houseofjob said: But also when you claim the MSX is more comfortable... highly agree to disagree. @houseofjob is absolutely correct here. At the moment I own five Gotway wheels, and by far the MSX is the most uncomfortable to ride. Yes, I still ride it almost daily, even to work today at 5f, temps out there... but its just not as ergonomically designed as my other wheels. Gotway did fail at this with the MSX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanzen Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mrd777 said: @houseofjob is absolutely correct here. At the moment I own five Gotway wheels, and by far the MSX is the most uncomfortable to ride. Yes, I still ride it almost daily, even to work today at 5f, temps out there... but its just not as ergonomically designed as my other wheels. Gotway did fail at this with the MSX. Personnal feeling of course. I ve done the past week the EXACT same trips with the MSX as I had with my Z10. Average 40 miles trips, mix of heavy traffic city (Paris), cyclable tracks and forest tracks. Each time at the end of the 3/4 hours it took me, I noticed the same thing. I was way less tired with the MSX than I had been with the Z10. It always took me some constant efforts of concentration and alway felt a bit under stress with the Z10, even after 1200km, due to its erratic behaviour. I loved the sensations that the Z10 provides but ... With the MSX its a walk in the park, whatever the surface and its condition, the environment, etc . Personnal feeling of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, Vanzen said: Personnal feeling of course. I ve done the past week the EXACT same trips with the MSX as I had with my Z10. Average 40 miles trips, mix of heavy traffic city (Paris), cyclable tracks and forest tracks. Each time at the end of the 3/4 hours it took me, I noticed the same thing. I was way less tired with the MSX than I had been with the Z10. It always took me some constant efforts of concentration and alway felt a bit under stress with the Z10, even after 1200km, due to its erratic behaviour. I loved the sensations that the Z10 provides but ... With the MSX its a walk in the park, whatever the surface and its condition, the environment, etc . Personnal feeling of course Love the MSX but i have to agree it’s a very uncomfortable wheel in its stock setup. If I stop riding it for three or four days then I have to get used to the steep angled pedals all over and foot fatigue sets in within 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanzen Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Weird, I have zero foot fatigue due to angled pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 @Vanzen Sorry, I don't judge wheels after just a week ownership, we all have initial buyers euphoria thinking that the wheel we purchased is the bestest of best wheels ever, ... and you should, you paid your hard earned money for it. This, FWIW, is also why I don't give much credence (sorry) to opinions formulated so early into one's ownership, even my own. But I've ridden both Z and MSX extensively now since both wheels came out. And I could care less about brand loyalty. After riding every new EUC make and model since 2016 except the now defunct UniWheel and iPS i5, saying the MSX is comfortable just means you haven't ridden enough different wheels, or are just too new and devoted to your current new purchase to be reasoned with, which is, again, understandable: we've all been there. But if I offered an experienced rider an MSX motor outfitted with any other Gotway shell ergonomics (like a blown up MCM5 ergo), they would take the Frankenstein Gotway over the stock MSX every day. And this is not just my opinion, it's the prevailing opinion of satisfied MSX diehard owners here in NYC, who have ridden their wheels daily since the MSX launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanzen Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Vanzen Sorry, I don't judge wheels after just a week ownership, we all have initial buyers euphoria thinking that the wheel we purchased is the bestest of best wheels ever, ... and you should, you paid your hard earned money for it. This, FWIW, is also why I don't give much credence (sorry) to opinions formulated so early into one's ownership, even my own. But I've ridden both Z and MSX extensively now since both wheels came out. And I could care less about brand loyalty. After riding every new EUC make and model since 2016 except the now defunct UniWheel and iPS i5, saying the MSX is comfortable just means you haven't ridden enough different wheels, or are just too new and devoted to your current new purchase to be reasoned with, which is, again, understandable: we've all been there. But if I offered an experienced rider an MSX motor outfitted with any other Gotway shell ergonomics, they would take the Frankenstein Gotway over the stock MSX every day. And this is not just my opinion, it's the prevailing opinion of satisfied MSX diehard owners here in NYC, who have ridden their wheels daily since the MSX launch. Well you might be right. I only have 3000km of riding with V5F, KS18, MCM5,MTEN3, Z10, Z6. Its not that much, I know. As I repeat its only a personnal feeling. I can assure you I didnt have initial buyers euphoria with the Z10, I even thought I would get rid of it as soon as I could at the beginning, but I knew it might be a matter of practice and I learned to enjoy it. I didnt have initial buyers euphoria with the KS18 that I sold back after 200km, so boring I found this wheel. And not manoeuvrable enought in the city. I had initial buyers euphoria though with the MCM5, perfect for the city, but with not enough range. But I admit it, I have initial buyer euphoria with the MSX that I find absolutely awesome in every aspect and situation and I dont see why it would change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Vanzen Sorry, I don't judge wheels after just a week ownership, we all have initial buyers euphoria thinking that the wheel we purchased is the bestest of best wheels ever, ... and you should, you paid your hard earned money for it. This, FWIW, is also why I don't give much credence (sorry) to opinions formulated so early into one's ownership, even my own. But I've ridden both Z and MSX extensively now since both wheels came out. And I could care less about brand loyalty. After riding every new EUC make and model since 2016 except the now defunct UniWheel and iPS i5, saying the MSX is comfortable just means you haven't ridden enough different wheels, or are just too new and devoted to your current new purchase to be reasoned with, which is, again, understandable: we've all been there. But if I offered an experienced rider an MSX motor outfitted with any other Gotway shell ergonomics, they would take the Frankenstein Gotway over the stock MSX every day. And this is not just my opinion, it's the prevailing opinion of satisfied MSX diehard owners here in NYC, who have ridden their wheels daily since the MSX launch. I love my Gotway wheels, but damn, I still find myself reaching for the Z10 an awful lot. It has flaws (don't they all), but it's such a fun wheel and, knock on wood, mine is still working great. And yes, it's very comfortable to ride compared to most of my Gotway wheels - the MCM5 being an exception. What do they have in common you ask? The curve away from your legs at the top of the shell. I'll leave the practical arguments for @houseofjob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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