Is riding seated a valuable option?

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

Hey guys,

this time I´m about to say goodbye to my learner wheel, a tuned NB1E+ with P model conversion (28 km/h and 708 Wh). According to my weight (200 lbs / 91 kg) and size (6,2 ft / 1,89 cm) I think an 18" would fit better to me than those 16" models. BTW: I think I am more the cruising guy with quite average talent on tricks and artistics so the disandvantages of bigger wheels shouldn´t hit me that hard... Maybe you can give me your opinion to that along the way?

After reading a lot of field reports in here I am quite focussed on the Kingsong 18L for my next favourite choice. But there is always some doubt... In my area there are still some KS 18S models avialable (from 1radwerkstatt.de) with slightly better prices than 18l models.  Their strange look gets some attraction to me ( see picture below, if you ever played one  of those Portal video games you know why) but I´m more than a little bit exicited about the possibility in riding seated converse to all other models availiable. This looks so damned weird...

But here is my essential question: Is it a really valuable option to choose (besides from mastering it) but getting a wheel with former specs? On my knowledge this option will be dropped for the future by all major brands...The main advantage being said is the stress relief from feet after riding longer times. Others claim that you can achieve the same when including breakes time by time.

I would be happy to get your estimations on this topic, thank you!

 

[Esper]

Personally, the only wheel I'd feel comfortable sitting on while riding is the 22 inch gotway monster.

If you need a seated option, buy an electric bike or get a regular bike and an electric wheel. I've seen some people in my city that made their own e-bike under $500 with speeds faster than those of the $2000+

How important is your need to be able to carry your wheel inside small spaces?
How important is weight of the device?
How often do you use it and what for?
What is holding you back from buying the KS-18L?

If you are getting something for pure fun, then take breaks while riding. If you are getting it to fit between your legs on public transit, stick with a smaller EUC. If you use it every day and don't care about size or weight, then get a bigger one.

You also have to remember that there are laws that can prohibit you from riding in your country as well.

[LanghamP]

Aside from the form factor of adding a seat, I'm completely against seats due to your weight compromising the structure of the shell, as your weight would be on the plastic that the screw go into instead of the axle to pedal metal.

[eddiemoy]

I have both the 18L and the 18S.  I don’t think I will be giving up the 18S anytime soon.  For long rides the seat option is a must.   

Also the look of the 18S is a little polarizing.  Some people love it, some hate it.  I’m of the camp for loving the look.  It is missing a built in trolley handle.  If KS can slap the 2K motor on and a built in trolley handle, it would be my favorite wheel.  But for now I split my time between the two wheels.  The MSX has a seat, but it is no taller than the 18L which makes longer rides seated not as comfortable as the 18S. Right now the 18S is still king of the seated rides.  I would say better than the square seat of the Monster. When you get going, you don’t really notice the 500W difference between the motors. 

[eddiemoy]

4 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Aside from the form factor of adding a seat, I'm completely against seats due to your weight compromising the structure of the shell, as your weight would be on the plastic that the screw go into instead of the axle to pedal metal.

The 18S is solid!  Taking a look at how it is built, I have zero worries of the weight stressing any part of the frame.  Unlike the MSX.  

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

Thank you all for help. BTW: Do you know how the KS-18L shell could be classified in relation to its precedessor? Has it the same build strength often described here (although not determinated for seated riding of course)? This might be of interest when dropping off unforeseen or similar...

[eddiemoy]

3 hours ago, Mimetic Polyalloy said:

Thank you all for help. BTW: Do you know how the KS-18L shell could be classified in relation to its precedessor? Has it the same build strength often described here (although not determinated for seated riding of course)? This might be of interest when dropping off unforeseen or similar...

She’ll on the 18L is worse than the tank like construction in the 18S, but better than the MSX. 

[Darrell Wesh]

Seated riding will forever transform your rides. No longer will you wonder how you’ll ever drain 1600wh, no longer will you ever feel like calling it a day due to foot numbness, no longer will you fail to satisfy your curiosity of the world around you. 

I have the Ks18s and I ride seated as much as I can. Even in the main roads I ride seated for higher top speeds and especially for uphill climbs. Just a minute of seated riding will get rid of the aches and pains of your foot and you’ll be good to stand again for another 5-10minutes. Your day will fly by and before you know it you’ve drained 75% of a 1600wh battery all in one go. Without feeling tired. 

I have an MSX wit the seat but it’s so low and uncomfortable as well as unsafe feeling that I don’t even use it. I now use the MSX for having fun/going fast, and the king song for exploring or “people watching”. 

[mrelwood]

39 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Seated riding will forever transform your rides. No longer will you wonder how you’ll ever drain 1600wh, no longer will you ever feel like calling it a day due to foot numbness, no longer will you fail to satisfy your curiosity of the world around you.

Luckily I was able to remove foot numbness (= transform my rides forever) by other means. ?

Considering also the structural facts, I think I can ditch learning a seated MSX with pride...

 

39 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

good to stand again for another 5-10minutes.

Dude, you really should do something about that, your foot/shoe/pedal issues sound serious.

 

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Dude, you really should do something about that, your foot/shoe/pedal issues sound serious.

 

? There’s a point where your feet start getting uncomfortable and warrants a “break”. That’s fact. I’m not saying it’s unbearable to the point where I can’t ride. A slight numbness there, some aches here. 

Seated riding for a mere 30-60 seconds allows your feet some time to relax and when you stand again, at least in my case, I’m good to do standing riding for another 5 minutes before my feet get uncomfortable again. 

I could choose to push through the discomfort and still ride, but when you have the luxury of a seat you never want to go without. 

Unless your’e a superhuman like@Marty Backe and do 3 hour rides standing with no rest haha. 

[mrelwood]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

? There’s a point where your feet start getting uncomfortable and warrants a “break”. That’s fact. I’m not saying it’s unbearable to the point where I can’t ride. A slight numbness there, some aches here.

That’s what I mean. My feet are normally prone to pains, aching and numbness, and at first I couldn’t ride for more than 10-15 minutes without the first break. But now with correctly sized pedals and proper shoes I can ride the MSX battery empty without a break without issues.

[Darrell Wesh]

 

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That’s what I mean. My feet are normally prone to pains, aching and numbness, and at first I couldn’t ride for more than 10-15 minutes without the first break. But now with correctly sized pedals and proper shoes I can ride the MSX battery empty without a break without issues.

That’s pretty incredible. I can ride the msx with stock pedals no modifications for an hour to an hour and a half before feet aches. It also depends mostly on how aggressively you are riding. If you’re on a Sunday stroll at 15mph barely leaning then  I’m sure you could ride with no aches until empty. 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

at 15mph barely leaning

I don’t know what that is, but doesn’t sound like riding to me. ?

[Dingfelder]

The kingsong seated riding, city, video I saw a couple years back is still one of the most calming, beautiful, enticing things I have ever seen.  It's too-far buried in utube effluim for me to dig out without undue effort (admittedly  I define that lightly), but dig some of it up and you will be inspired.  Seated riding makes for glorious vids, if you have the taste for anything remotely in the ballpark for that ...

Yeah, it's a valuable and beautiful option ...

... don't let anyone tell you different until you've tried for yourself.

We're all adventuring here ... 

... don't let anyone tell you different or turn your head around ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

Thank you all for input again. I´m getting the impression that seated riding is more than just looks...

Can you finally give me an estimation how hard it is to learn for an average talented rider (having about 700 km / 435 mls ridden)? There were some inconsistent readings when I searched for it here.

And another question: Will it be a benefit to start and stop from seated position (after mastering of course)? This is still a point because I hazzle around at crossroad stops sometimes in "traditional" riding style. If yes this could also smoothen my ridings...

[Darrell Wesh]

Not very hard to learn seated on a Ks18s or Monster(same height). Certainly below skill level of riding backwards. It just feels weird to shift with your hips and upper body with no contribution from the legs. I learned in less than a week and a plus is you can’t experience speed wobbles while seated. I usually reach my highest speed while seated on my Ks18s (although I usually use seated to go fast only on main roads). The natural leaned forward stance of seated riding lends well to fast speeds. Braking is bad though and you should/will definetly stand up to break well. 

BIG CAUTION though because I never ride in new territory fast seated. Bumps while seated will scare you to death and certainly can cause you to fall. No shock absorption with your legs like while standing so you feel them too. I make sure I know the road before I ride it fast while seated.. gotta be smooth. 

[Darrell Wesh]

No benefit to start and stop while seated. I’ve had my Ks18s fall over two or three times when I attempted to stop to a standstill seated. If you can do it more power to you but not necessary and dangerous. 

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

That´s very helpful, thanks. So based on your observations braking is one of the downside parts of this riding style - sounds comprehensible to me. Missing shock absortion I also can imagine well and should be avoided in offroad terrain.

My greatest challenge is still starting the wheel in stressful traffic situations by hopping on and not getting unbalanced. Maybe this could be improved by seated riding - but I have to check out finally if this fits well to me.

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

BIG CAUTION though because I never ride in new territory fast seated. Bumps while seated will scare you to death and certainly can cause you to fall. No shock absorption with your legs like while standing so you feel them too. I make sure I know the road before I ride it fast while seated.. gotta be smooth. 

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

No benefit to start and stop while seated. I’ve had my Ks18s fall over two or three times when I attempted to stop to a standstill seated. If you can do it more power to you but not necessary and dangerous. 

You must not be utilizing a handplant, which is understandable, given the small real estate to be able to firmly plant your hand on the seat in front of you on the KS-18S seat (on my KS-18S, I only have enough space to lean with 2 fingers, whereas on the much more spacious Gotway Monster seat, I can firmly plant the whole palm of my hand in front).

 

2 hours ago, Mimetic Polyalloy said:

That´s very helpful, thanks. So based on your observations braking is one of the downside parts of this riding style - sounds comprehensible to me. Missing shock absortion I also can imagine well and should be avoided in offroad terrain.

My greatest challenge is still starting the wheel in stressful traffic situations by hopping on and not getting unbalanced. Maybe this could be improved by seated riding - but I have to check out finally if this fits well to me.

When riding a proper seated EUC like my KS-18S, or former Gotway Monster, I actually find starting / mounting the wheel to go is much easier in skill than traditional standing and mounting. 

This is because I can lean on the top of the seat with one hand, before I sit down. (I actually utilize my hand a lot for seated riding, just like traditional manual, non-electric unicyclists do).

I'll start either a.) seated with one foot on the ground, one foot on pedal, or b.) standing with one foot on the ground, one foot on pedal (starting standing is easier than starting fully seated). Then I'll lean with my outstretched hand on the EUC seat to start forward motion (both for starting seated and standing), followed by pickup up my ground foot onto the pedal, and sitting down if I start out standing.

IMHO, utilizing your outstretched hand on the seat is key for transitioning to seated and making micro-adjustments during seated EUC riding, as seated riding is all about weight on top of the wheel, not the pedals, and your hand in this way becomes a second weight point, in addition to your bum.