ShadowWheelin' Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 8:33 AM, Scatcat said: I DO get an urge to go off-road with this tire. I'd love to put it on in the summer if there was just a little less work to switch and balance it. Going into the woods should be fun as fun with something like this on. Yes to more of this. Would be hella fun on dirt trails. I like to own a secondary EUC, perhaps an MSX with a setup like yours, for icy winter and summer dirt trail use, and continue to use my KS-18XL during fair weather on urban city streets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) FFS. So I mounted a big heavy snow tire, and studs, and now the temperatures in Gothenburg suddenly stays above freezing for at least the next ten days... Did someone up there see me and decide it was time to have a joke at my expense? Edited February 12, 2019 by Scatcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Scatcat said: FFS. So I mounted a big heavy snow tire, and studs, and now the temperatures in Gothenburg suddenly stays above freezing for at least the next ten days... Did someone up there see me and decide it was time to have a joke at my expense? Now I know what to do at next snowfall... @Scatcat time for you to bring out the anti snow thingy again... As you know as soon you swap to normal tyre, what is bound to happen.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 20 hours ago, Unventor said: Now I know what to do at next snowfall... @Scatcat time for you to bring out the anti snow thingy again... As you know as soon you swap to normal tyre, what is bound to happen.😉 Well I screwed out the studs, and even with the knobbly tire I felt like a stealth machine when riding. You can't believe the racket with 2.5 mm studs sticking out of the tire... Let's hope the joking powers that be lets me off the hook for that little maneuver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scatcat said: Well I screwed out the studs, and even with the knobbly tire I felt like a stealth machine when riding. You can't believe the racket with 2.5 mm studs sticking out of the tire... Let's hope the joking powers that be lets me off the hook for that little maneuver. Ohhh no you jinxed the weather now. Wheel voodoo boomerang karma. Edited February 13, 2019 by Unventor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, Unventor said: Ohhh no you jinxed the weather now. Wheel voodoo boomerang karma. You mean that me screwing out the 34 studs in my tire is more or less a guarantee of more ice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Anyone have an idea how to turn one of my EUCs into a boat because that's the only way I can ride mine currently. It has rained for weeks solid. Flooding has now ensued. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scatcat Posted February 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) On 2/8/2019 at 7:15 PM, ShadowWheelin' said: So now that I own a KS-18XL, I'm looking for a winter tire much like yours @Scatcat Would anyone happen to know where I can find such a tire? I know the EUCs don't use "rim" sizes, but overall width tread to tread. Also, which studs do you folks prefer? 14" for a motocross tyre rim size is probably what you're looking for. My 2.5" width was good for the MSX shell, I'm not sure if it would clear the 18XL shell too, but I doubt it. The knobs stick out some way to each side, so the 2.5" matches the normal 3" tire almost exactly in width (or very close to). You might get away with it, if you're willing to "shave" the knobs on each side to clear the shell. When it comes to studs, it depends very much on the tire. A normal street tire can't really take best-grip studs or the like (screw in studs). The rubber thickness is not enough to give the buffer needed to the anti puncture weave on the inside of the tire. It can work, but there will always be a risk that a bump in exactly the wrong spot leaves you with a puncture. A motocross tyre with knobs can usually take best-grip studs, but depending on the conditions they may be overkill. They stick out more than bike studs, and they're pretty damn sharp. The alternative are bike studs like those from Shwalbe or Nokian. Those are pretty good too, but take a lot more effort to mount. There's a video somewhere around here on how to deal with mounting them, but in short: You measure the depth on a drill (2.5-3 mm thickness) and drill holes for the studs, if you want perfect holes, I would recommend a dremel - but make sure there's enough ventilation as there will be a lot of rubber smoke if you do. You can keep the tire on while drilling, but at low pressure. Mount a nail with the approximate head size of the stud base on a drill. File or cut a notch in the head. Measure how deep it should go by comparing with the stud. Use soapy water on the hole to ease pushing it in. When you have the correct depth, let the drill spin for maybe 5-10 seconds and then pull it out carefully. More soapy water, and push the stud in with the tool, until it "sets" itself in the groove you created with the nail. Ideally only the carbide part should stick out of the hole. The method takes some time and effort, but the result can be very good if done carefully. The advantages of best-grip is easy mounting and very good grip on all surfaces. The disadvantages are higher rolling resistance and a lot more noise from the studs. The advantages of bike studs are that you can drive on hard surfaces without much worse rolling resistance (comparatively), and the noise is not nearly as bad. Also if you take the EUC inside, the bike studs won't do as much damage to floors, if any. The disadvantages are slight, but on a thick, uneven ice/snow mix, the shorter protrusion won't grip as well as the best-grip studs. You may slide a bit more, especially sideways if there are ridges and such of hardened snow and ice. Edited February 21, 2019 by Scatcat 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scatcat Posted February 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2019 Two additions to the post above: First point: With low pressure while dremeling, I mean _really_ low pressure, low enough for you to be able to compress the tire a bit with your fingers. Any higher and the rubber won't "give" enough to make the dremeling, nail drilling, mounting sequence smooth enough. Basically you shouldn't compress the rubber while doing this, you risk damage and it's harder. Second point: The Best-grip 1000 protrudes 2.3mm and goes 6.2mm into the rubber. Compared to the thickness of a 18x2.5" (KS18) & 18x3" (MSX) standard street ChaoYang-tire, the thickness of the rubber in the tire is somewhere around 7mm (estimated), inside that rubber thickness is the cord and anti-puncture layer. When the stud is all in, there is barely a single millimeter between the end of the stud and the cord. As the screw part has a diameter of about 6mm and is shaped a lot lice an ice-drill, there is a significant risk that the single millimeter of rubber will be penetrated if the stud gets hit sideways - like at low pressure hitting a curb. If that happens, all that is between the tube and the sharp edges of the screw is the cord and puncture layer, which overall is better at stopping puncturing forces, rather than cutting forces. If you want to test if the rubber is thick enough for the screw in studs, try one on the tire and start screwing it in while holding a finger on the inside where the stud is. If your finger starts to feel the movement of the screw under the cord, you're too far in. There should be no feeling of movement and most certainly no bulge where it went in. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 4:52 PM, Scatcat said: The method takes some time and effort, but the result can be very good if done carefully. After experimenting with numerous installation techniques for your studded tire modifications I hereby present you with this honorary trophy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowWheelin' Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Thank you very much for the highly detailed and thorough posts @Scatcat. I watched the stud tutuorial video your referencing and will edit my post with the link when I find it again. Right now, I have a Bridgestone M403 14" tire and both bike studs and screw-in studs at hand. Looking at the fender clearance of my KS18XL, I don't think it will fit, but perhaps another brand of tire such as a ProTrax, who's nobby bits are more vertical than horizontal, will. Though, I think the protuding nobby bits are necessary on EUC due to leaning during turns, much like a motorcycle tire. Perhaps the best solution for myself is to buy a third EUC, a Gotway MSX for winter and dirt trail use. https://www.amazon.ca/ProTrax-Motocross-Offroad-Intermediate-Terrain/dp/B01JSI147C/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1550953393&sr=8-10&keywords=Michelin+14"+tire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoltri Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Well I have given this another attempt even though it is the end of winter. The stock tire I studded was too slippery in fresh snow since it has very little tread - not sure how you handle that @winterwheel , I don't like that feeling. So copying @Scatcat I bought a new dirt bike tire, 60/100-14, which fits nicely. Unfortunately the first one I bought in this size had knobs that were too wide, so there is a lot of variance in these tires. I used my same method to stud it with bicycle studs, there are about 100 or so I'm guessing. Rode it shortly this morning and it feels good so far. Need to put more miles on it to know how it handles for sure though. The other issue I had that was a big problem was icing of the pedals. So I studded those as well. I think it should solve the problem, and they are removable if necessary, I just lined up the backs of them with the grid within the pedal to keep them in place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 48 minutes ago, Xoltri said: Well I have given this another attempt even though it is the end of winter. The stock tire I studded was too slippery in fresh snow since it has very little tread - not sure how you handle that @winterwheel , I don't like that feeling. So copying @Scatcat I bought a new dirt bike tire, 60/100-14, which fits nicely. Unfortunately the first one I bought in this size had knobs that were too wide, so there is a lot of variance in these tires. I used my same method to stud it with bicycle studs, there are about 100 or so I'm guessing. Rode it shortly this morning and it feels good so far. Need to put more miles on it to know how it handles for sure though. The other issue I had that was a big problem was icing of the pedals. So I studded those as well. I think it should solve the problem, and they are removable if necessary, I just lined up the backs of them with the grid within the pedal to keep them in place. Awesome to hear you're giving it another go. Yes, the worst part about riding when it gets super slippery is the stress of it...it's very hard to shake the feeling of impending doom once you hit a long ice patch. I mitigate this by taking the slippery stuff head on; if I see an ice patch I usually ride over it instead of around it. If I am a long stretch of very slippery stuff I will practice doing gentle slaloms on it, and thereby get a feeling that I am in control of the situation, rather than just hanging on and hoping. That said, this is my second winter of doing this now; the second winter was far easier than the first. Last year I would carry the wheel over certain tricky spots, this year I take them on. So the experience of daily riding may be a factor. Another secret-find gear to wear that allows you to fall down without hurting yourself. Hockey players don't mind falling on ice because their knees and elbows and helmet are all protected. The safer your gear makes you feel, the easier it is to attack tough conditions. On the studs issue, I wear studs on my boots. That way if I have to step off when on ice my boots have grip. It's hard on the pedals though, the metal studs on my boots have worn a lot of the traction surface off the pedal so that it is just bare metal there now. Maybe your solution would allow me to have less aggressive studs. I'd want to be careful that the pedal studs didn't prevent adjusting feet on the pedals or releasing the wheel when you need to get off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 59 minutes ago, winterwheel said: impending doom Sometimes the doom factor seems to sneak up on you. Ouch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said: Sometimes the doom factor seems to sneak up on you. Ouch... Thanks for reminding me of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob Eisenman said: the doom factor Newton's First Law of Motion ......... and a body in motion at a constant velocity will remain in motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force." https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/WindTunnel/Activities/first2nd_lawsf_motion.html 2 hours ago, winterwheel said: taking the slippery stuff head on; Must be that angled approach to a new direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) Going around corners is okay, you just have to keep positive pressure on the outside pedal to keep the wheel from sliding out from underneath you. When I get distracted, as I did that time, I forgot to do that. Edited March 1, 2019 by winterwheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, winterwheel said: When I get distracted, Canadian lady effect! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 @winterwheel Looks like a balance loss (hand moves up) starting around 9-10 seconds into the slow motion clip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Sounds about right. 53 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said: @winterwheel Looks like a balance loss (hand moves up) starting around 9-10 seconds into the slow motion clip Seems about right. It's a while back now but as I recall it was just as I was straightening out from the turn onto the bridge. I did that turn a bunch of times onto and off the bridge that day to get different video shots, the only time I crashed like that was when I was distracted by the pedestrian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 8/24/2018 at 12:05 PM, winterwheel said: I would always tell people the safest place to be in extreme ice conditions is on the wheel. I have had zero success riding on ice. This is with a non-studded tire. Fortunately for me, icy conditions in my area are infrequent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 8/24/2018 at 4:40 PM, Dingfelder said: Why do you find an EUC immune to slipping even though ... to me anyway ... it doesn't even seem to be possible to be immune to slipping? That is my reaction also. I have not had any success whatsoever riding my EUC on ice. I have not tried a studded tire though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 We had our first few days of light snow for the winter. Due to my superbly soft compound knobbly C-186 I’ve decided to try riding through the winter, and at least for now I had zero slipping. I’m afraid of sudden ice though, as I don’t think anything studless would do. Then again, I have studless winter tires on my car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, MaxLinux said: I have had zero success riding on ice. This is with a non-studded tire. Fortunately for me, icy conditions in my area are infrequent. Maybe riding technique plays a role. I know that you you have to super careful to stay over the wheel, no leaning of any kind or its game over. I know when I hit a super long stretch of really bad ice I get this super-strong sense that a fall is inevitable, that I might as well give in to it and just go down, kind of like the feeling one gets standing at the edge of a high cliff. It just seems counter-intuitive that you are still vertical, but somehow the wheel stays upright, as long as I am super careful not to make any sudden movements. Tire pressure may pay a role, I would think a hard tire would go down easier. Short patches should be easy to cross for anyone. We had a little (30ft) patch of ice show up by the rink last spring during one of our weekly sessions; it looked pretty scary and there were some weren't willing to try it. Those who did try it were able to cross without any issues or drama. Edited November 10, 2019 by winterwheel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy5225 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I think you find a indoor arena whose ground is big enough could make it. I don't know if that's hard in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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