King Song 14D cut out...writing this from hospital

[King Llama]

Thanks for all the kind words. 

To everyone surprised by the pictures, I will say it was MUCH worse last night. Those pictures are after a day of recovery with reduced swelling and also a shower in which I was able to really clean up.

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Can you tell us what type of helmet that you were wearing? Thanks.

I was using a 6 year old Schwinn Thrasher that I used to ride on my road bike in college. That one is going in the trash now; I've heard that you shouldn't keep a helmet after a crash due to structural damage that may not be obvious.

https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Thrasher-Helmet/dp/B076B71W7J

4 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I'm really glad you posted pictures.  When you said the skin abrasions were bad, I didn't really pay much attention because I'm more worried about bone breaks.  Actually seeing the road burn makes me realize how painful it would be.  

It's funny because I've been holding off on getting a full-faced helmet because money is tight right now.  I keep crossing my fingers that I'm not going to get burned for waiting for a deal.  

Your comment about the timing of your insurance is haunting.  Murphy's Law.  It's why I just know I'm going to eat it face first the day my helmet is arriving.  Right now, I go helmet and wrist guards, and keep my speed reasonable.  My next move after the full-face helmet is probably knee pads.  

Regarding the lack of time to roll, there was a guy here a week ago humble-bragging about how his rolling ability saved him in a 50km/h+ crash wearing zero protection.   

Buy the full face helmet...don't take a risk. Honestly, if I were wearing a full face helmet and wrist guards, my injuries would have been much more minor.

46 minutes ago, Cannings said:

Glad you're okay man, i've put myself in a position where I don't really have much of an option as my wheel "is" my transport to work and fuck walking after owning an euc lol. Pad up and get back on just like when you fell off your bike learning when you were 3, or grinding the clutch when learning to drive (americans probably can't relate to this one :P) we only learn from our falls, after mine I never go on that piece of pavement if i can help it as after re-inspection the pavement has what I can only explain of a sink in a line not big in any which way it kind of looks like this:

----------------\/----------------

but it is the perfect storm of if you're going over it, the wheel starts dipping into it but as its only small hits the peak of the curve on the other side and really doesn't take much to push you forward because of the counter momentum add that to the increased power draw due to the bang is what I think happened to me.

When I'm feeling better, I'm going to go back and check out the exact area I fell. Jason offered to inspect my wheel, and I will probably take him up on that offer to make sure my wheel isn't damaged or malfunctioning. I have an idea that it may have something to do with the DarknessBot app turning off my alarms; I'm still pretty upset it would do that without any warning. That sounds like extremely unsafe behavior and it may have lead to some over-lean.

I will need a few weeks to fully recover but once I do I am going to really try and figure out what happened and what I can do to prevent a similar injury in the future. I do not have confidence riding my K14D until I do.

[Duf]

15 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

  Yeeks.   Note to self - get a full face helmet ASAP,  choose a different hobby like pinochle or basket weaving, sign my organ donor card.

Just ordered mine

[Duf]

On it's way - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MUH7WXY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[WARPed1701D]

2 minutes ago, Duf said:

On it's way - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MUH7WXY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Nice. Downhill certified too.

Be sure to give us a review of it in the Safety Forum.

[novazeus]

@Dufnot questioning ur full face helmet purchase, but i was wondering since ur terrain is like mine, flat as a pancake, and since u have been riding much longer than me, have u ever experienced a wheel cut off?

[WARPed1701D]

On 5/24/2018 at 1:17 PM, novazeus said:

@Dufnot questioning ur full face helmet purchase, but i was wondering since ur terrain is like mine, flat as a pancake, and since u have been riding much longer than me, have u ever experienced a wheel cut off?

A 'cutout' which is suggestive of wheel hardware failure can happen to anyone, anywhere regardless of environment or experience.

An "overlean" or a "loss of balance" only takes a pothole, dip, downed tree branch, slippery ground, unexpected manoeuvrer (child/dog avoidance), excessive speed beyond the wheels ability etc. You can get all of these on Florida's pancake flat terrain and end up like poor King Llama.

Terrain is largely irrelevant.

I know Duf ate it at least once on an old Ninebot due to tiltback and slippery pedals from the rain. I believe he even cut his face as a result.

Edited May 25, 2018 by WARPed1701D

[novazeus]

32 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Terrain is largely irrelevant

u say that but ur previous paragraph cites many cause of terrain causing “overlean”.

32 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

overlean" or a "loss of balance" only takes a pothole, dip, downed tree branch, slippery ground, unexpected manoeuvrer (child/dog avoidance), excessive speed beyond the wheels ability etc.

it would seem to me, failure of a electrical system on rough terrain would be more likely than on perfectly flat smooth terrain. 

i’ve been on this forum since august of last year so i’ve only been monitoring these accidents since then.

it would be interesting to compile all known accidents that needed medical attention and their causes. kinda like a ntsb thing. 

like, this was a 14d that failed, we think, like @Scott Henley failure. that doesn’t make a pattern necessarily, but might warrant extra investigation.

anything can happen to anybody except maybe a shark attack on mt everest but when these things happen, we need to try to connect the dots, otherwise we aren’t learning anything other than, at anytime, anywhere, these devices are so dangerous they could quit at anytime so bundle up and expect to crash at anytime. which isn’t bad advice, but taking that position, never riding wheels ever again would be better advice.

slow down, don’t ride tilt back would be a good suggestion i would think as opposed to go fast and ride tilt back. wear as much protection as u can but i think from what i’ve read on this forum since joining in august, other decisions made seem to be contributing factors to these accidents. 

i mean, where does it end. ur trying to introduce a friend to this activity and u tell them “here, put on these special shoes, ankle protectors, shin protectors, knee braces/protectors, hip pads, butt pads, thigh pads, full back support, neck support, full face helmet, rear view mirror, etc etc etc.” if they do all that, God bless them, they want it bad. 

i wonder if my father thought about all this shit when he stuck me on a horse when i was 4. 

[WARPed1701D]

34 minutes ago, novazeus said:

u say that but ur previous paragraph cites many cause of terrain causing “overlean”.

Your question to Duf referred to " terrain is like mine, flat as a pancake" so I feel it was safe to assume 'terrain" reflected geographical relief features such as hills and mountains. It seems you meant terrain at a macro level such as a dip in the road in which case yes the terrain is very relevant but I think that is a global phenomenon affecting riding from Florida to the Alps and anyone would be experienced to reply, not just Duf.

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, WARPed1701D said:

Your question to Duf referred to " terrain is like mine, flat as a pancake" so I feel it was safe to assume 'terrain" reflected geographical relief features such as hills and mountains. It seems you meant terrain at a macro level such as a dip in the road in which case yes the terrain is very relevant but I think that is a global phenomenon affecting riding from Florida to the Alps and anyone would be experienced to reply, not just Duf.

i do think straining electrical vehicles, being golf carts, cars, euc’s, etc on hilly terrain does take a toll on the electrical components. i was just watching the ks18l being “stressed” tested on a 30 degree incline. i broke my ezgo golf cart on the ranch but i’m sure it would have lasted much longer if i had kept usng it on more friendly terrain like the golf course. 

i’d just like to see, to the best of our ability, the actual stats of mechanical failures without external forces causing them on each manufacturers models. 

for example, i choose not to buy a gotway wheel because, right or wrong, i read stories of mechanical failures, idk if external factors, ie rain, riding tiltback, potholes, tree limbs etc etc were contributing factors. plus safety in wheels is much more important to me than speed. 

it’s my unscientific observation just from using all different kinds of motors and mechanical equipment over the years, the more strain u put on them, the more likely they are to fail. gas, diesel, alcohol, electric etc.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

u say that but ur previous paragraph cites many cause of terrain causing “overlean”.

it would seem to me, failure of a electrical system on rough terrain would be more likely than on perfectly flat smooth terrain. 

i’ve been on this forum since august of last year so i’ve only been monitoring these accidents since then.

it would be interesting to compile all known accidents that needed medical attention and their causes. kinda like a ntsb thing. 

like, this was a 14d that failed, we think, like @Scott Henley failure. that doesn’t make a pattern necessarily, but might warrant extra investigation.

anything can happen to anybody except maybe a shark attack on mt everest but when these things happen, we need to try to connect the dots, otherwise we aren’t learning anything other than, at anytime, anywhere, these devices are so dangerous they could quit at anytime so bundle up and expect to crash at anytime. which isn’t bad advice, but taking that position, never riding wheels ever again would be better advice.

slow down, don’t ride tilt back would be a good suggestion i would think as opposed to go fast and ride tilt back. wear as much protection as u can but i think from what i’ve read on this forum since joining in august, other decisions made seem to be contributing factors to these accidents. 

i mean, where does it end. ur trying to introduce a friend to this activity and u tell them “here, put on these special shoes, ankle protectors, shin protectors, knee braces/protectors, hip pads, butt pads, thigh pads, full back support, neck support, full face helmet, rear view mirror, etc etc etc.” if they do all that, God bless them, they want it bad. 

i wonder if my father thought about all this shit when he stuck me on a horse when i was 4. 

Except for the firmware bug in my MSuper V3s+, I've never experienced a cutout (where the electronics fail) in all the wheels and miles that I've ridden, included lots of rough terrain.

[novazeus]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Except for the firmware bug in my MSuper V3s+, I've never experienced a cutout (where the electronics fail) in all the wheels and miles that I've ridden, included lots of rough terrain.

and that is great to know because u do ride mostly gotway euc’s. u have been doing this longer than most of us, and have been a very active forum member i presume from first starting to ride, do u recall how many euc mechanical/electronic failures have occurred sans no external contributing forces? 

 for example, u posted that ks16b failing climbing up a mountain trail. i don’t think it would have failed on terrain like i ride on, my flat, non pothole road. or ur mten failure in that turnstyle. not really gotway’s fault, maybe they should beef up connectors, but anybody can burn up anything electrical. send it to me and i’ll show u. 

segway and inmotion put a lot of disclaimers of where not to ride euc’s that seems to go largely ignored. just saying.

[Rehab1]

31 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Except for the firmware bug in my MSuper V3s+, I've never experienced a cutout (where the electronics fail) in all the wheels and miles that I've ridden, included lots of rough terrain.

You must still be paying your monthly endowment to the Gotway Gods. Sign me up. 

[novazeus]

i still think terrain is a contributing factor.

i doubt any wheel manufacturer is gonna send me a new wheel to test out on my closed course perfectly flat road. i don't think anybody would be impressed.

[meepmeepmayer]

42 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Except for the firmware bug in my MSuper V3s+, I've never experienced a cutout (where the electronics fail) in all the wheels and miles that I've ridden, included lots of rough terrain.

Ahem ... ACM frying on that hill counts as cutout, right? And what was with your 14D board, didn't it cut out too?

[Marty Backe]

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Ahem ... ACM frying on that hill counts as cutout, right? And what was with your 14D board, didn't it cut out too?

Of course I've had failures. But I'm addressing the concern of a 'random' cutout that had no contributing factors. You know, like you're just cruising down a path and BOOM, the wheel cuts out.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

and that is great to know because u do ride mostly gotway euc’s. u have been doing this longer than most of us, and have been a very active forum member i presume from first starting to ride, do u recall how many euc mechanical/electronic failures have occurred sans no external contributing forces? 

 for example, u posted that ks16b failing climbing up a mountain trail. i don’t think it would have failed on terrain like i ride on, my flat, non pothole road. or ur mten failure in that turnstyle. not really gotway’s fault, maybe they should beef up connectors, but anybody can burn up anything electrical. send it to me and i’ll show u. 

segway and inmotion put a lot of disclaimers of where not to ride euc’s that seems to go largely ignored. just saying.

I must say that only two wheels stopped functioning when I was doing nothing. The KS14S would no long balance after charging and the Inmotion V10F would not turn on from one power cycle to the next. No spontaneous Gotway failures.

[RayRay]

14 hours ago, King Llama said:

Buy the full face helmet...don't take a risk. Honestly, if I were wearing a full face helmet and wrist guards, my injuries would have been much more minor.

I'm very glad to hear you weren't too badly injured. ?

Since your reflexes are probably 1000X times better than mine, I'll take your advice and wear a full-face helmet. ?

(I can't afford to get any less appealing.) ?

[vgambit]

Been riding helmetless for a while. Thought putting on a helmet was enough of an upgrade to consider lifting my 18S' alarm/limit from 20/22. Considering it's also a 6-year-old Schwinn Thrasher, and the damage OP got going only slightly faster than I do, I think I'm gonna reconsider that increase.

I'll also need to make getting safety gear (and a full face helmet) a higher priority.

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I must say that only two wheels stopped functioning when I was doing nothing. The KS14S would no long balance after charging and the Inmotion V10F would not turn on from one power cycle to the next. No spontaneous Gotway failures.

so would u say that me riding on my flat, non-pothole, no limbs down, no dogs, cats or cows chasing me, fully or full charged wheels staying safely below alarm bells and tiltback, with segway  kingsong and inmotion's products, a cut off would be extremely rare. 

that's what i think, want to believe because here in florida, with our humidity, i don't think i can do full face.

i've done a lot of full face riding but usually at 75mph+, not at 10mph. my head would be beet red if i wore a full face any length of time down here. 

naples is hot as hell but actually better than where i'm at because they do get nice gulf breezes down there.

looking forward to see how @Duf fares with his new full face.

[WARPed1701D]

32 minutes ago, novazeus said:

so would u say that me riding on my flat, non-pothole, no limbs down, no dogs, cats or cows chasing me, fully or full charged wheels staying safely below alarm bells and tiltback, with segway  kingsong and inmotion's products, a cut off would be extremely rare. 

that's what i think, want to believe because here in florida, with our humidity, i don't think i can do full face.

i've done a lot of full face riding but usually at 75mph+, not at 10mph. my head would be beet red if i wore a full face any length of time down here. 

naples is hot as hell but actually better than where i'm at because they do get nice gulf breezes down there.

looking forward to see how @Duf fares with his new full face.

I ride full face every day and am just 20 miles from you. A full face vented bicycle helmet is not like a full face motorbike helmet (which I have also owned back in England). My head has never got hot. It was the item I most worried about and the one that had been the least of an issue. 

[novazeus]

19 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I ride full face every day and am just 20 miles from you. A full face vented bicycle helmet is not like a full face motorbike helmet (which I have also owned back in England). My head has never got hot. It was the item I most worried about and the one that had been the least of an issue. 

that’s good to know but twenty miles inland is a big difference than being on the penisular where u are. my head gets hot in my little bike lid i bought. 

i’m not disagreeing with u about helmets and protection, always better to be safe rather than injured. i just don’t see myself donning full protection to go 1/3 of a mile down my road to my mailbox. 

i’ll probably be one of those that faceplants thru no fault of my own and all because of the wheel i’m riding and then i’ll stop riding wheels. the thrill or convenience or whatever u are suppose to get out of riding wheels won’t be worth the time and trouble for suiting up before every dinky ride. i’ll graduate to my new inmotion l8f coming tmrw. 

[King Llama]

Does anyone know how to download data off the darkness bot app? Maybe there isn't a way.

Is there a way to zoom in on the data from a particular day? The only way for me to see the data from the crash is to switch to the "week" data view, but then I've lost the resolution to see what actually happened during the crash.

One bit of strange behavior that I've noticed is that at the point of crash I had about 70% battery and after the crash, the battery level shot up to 90% on the app. I haven't charged my wheel since the crash and it is still reading 90% battery. Maybe there is something wrong with the control board? I know battery voltages can be pretty unstable but I haven't had jumps from 70% to 90% in the past. I'm going to contact Jason and see if we can debug this and I'll keep you guys updated. It might take a couple of weeks to get the wheel to him though.

[WARPed1701D]

It isn't unusal for a difference of 10 to 20% of reported charge (as measured by voltage) between on load (riding) and off load (stationary) conditions. Especially if the on load condition has a very high current draw (such as would be seen by a wheel trying to accelerate out of a pot hole). 

[Scared of eucs]

7 hours ago, King Llama said:

Does anyone know how to download data off the darkness bot app? Maybe there isn't a way.

Is there a way to zoom in on the data from a particular day? The only way for me to see the data from the crash is to switch to the "week" data view, but then I've lost the resolution to see what actually happened during the crash.

One bit of strange behavior that I've noticed is that at the point of crash I had about 70% battery and after the crash, the battery level shot up to 90% on the app. I haven't charged my wheel since the crash and it is still reading 90% battery. Maybe there is something wrong with the control board? I know battery voltages can be pretty unstable but I haven't had jumps from 70% to 90% in the past. I'm going to contact Jason and see if we can debug this and I'll keep you guys updated. It might take a couple of weeks to get the wheel to him though.

On my 14s I've checked on darknessbot app and had like 20% lower than the official King song app.   I wanna say the ks app said like 47% and the darknessbot app said like 27%?

 

I kept meaning to make a post about this, but I dunno.  I literally went between the two apps back to back, so it wasn't about me being on or off the wheel.

[Duf]

18 hours ago, novazeus said:

@Dufnot questioning ur full face helmet purchase, but i was wondering since ur terrain is like mine, flat as a pancake, and since u have been riding much longer than me, have u ever experienced a wheel cut off?

Never.  Worst thing I experienced was severe and sudden tiltback on my NB one E+ when the battery was getting low.  It threw me off at 12-13mph.  Scraped up my face on that fall.